Casting copies of other soldiers (1 Viewer)

[theBaron]

Well, there are room-temperature-vulcanizing compounds available, but they don't produce molds that last, on average, as long as molds vulcanized under the normal process (which includes application of pressure and heat, if I remember correctly).

My pre-silicon-rubber molding experience? Plaster, when I first attempted to make molds. To keep things easy, I used masters that had no undercuts-an Airfix 1/72 Prussian Landwehrmann standing at attention, for example, and the ensign from the same set, and the old battleship token from Monopoly. And I learned that plaster was only good for a couple of castings, before the heat turned the mold to dust.

Thanks for the pics of the jeweler's centrifuge, it's sort of what I expected it might be, that is, the principles and mechanics are the same, whether it's on that scale, or on the scale of the larger spin casting machines the toy soldier makers use.

Prost!
Brad

 

[kilted vampire]

Cigaboy I do not think that anyone has copied any K&C figures. It can be done. I would find someone who is real good at mold making , perhaps a commercial company. As you can tell there are several ways to make a mold. Some reading is required to make an informed decicison.If I was going to copy a K&C figure I would look at a casting/ moldmaking company. There is a lot of trial and error. I would keep them for myself. I got into casting because of finanaces. I have mde some great figures and had a lot of fun.

 

[theBaron]

Hi, Cigarboy, if you're looking for someone to make molds, I recommend Robert Lewis, who trades as RLJ Casting. He's made molds for me and is good to work with. He doesn't have a website that I know of, but his contact info is:

R L J Casting
246 Shadle Rd
Titusville PA 16354
(814) 827-1862

 

[Tinsoldier]

The key to making a mould that will produce good quality reproductions and last is by de-airing the rubber in a vacuum chamber. This means that you require a vacuum pump and bell jar. During the mixing and catalitic process air is introduced into the rubber. By extracting the air the mould become solid around the figure. Otherwise small air pockets are left in the mould, that if metal finds a way of breaking the skin and filling the pocket during the casting process, the mould has a tendency to tear. Plus you have cleanup of the figures.

Rubber is not cheap, but do not scrimp on the amount used. This was a common problem even I did in the past. Ensure the there is enough rubber around the figure, a minimum of 1/2 inch or more. This reduces the squish effect. De-aired rubber is much more solid.

The pour area (spout) should be large enough to hold an equivalent amount of metal as the casting. This provides sufficient weight to force the metal into the figure cavity to obtain detail.

I use exclusively Dow Corning RTV rubber of the silastic type. Types J and M are very good.

Don

 

[theBaron]

I realize that I never responded to the part of the question about whether there are any legal problems regarding making copies. First, I have to say that I'm not a lawyer, so I can't speak about copyright law. There lawyers who are members here, and if they have experience with copyright and intellectual property laws, especially in an international context, they would be better able to respond than the rest of us.

Having said that, I have had molds made, both of figures that are no longer available commercially, but also of some that are. I can imagine that that probably does violate a copyright somewhere, but I don't sell any castings that I make, they're for my own consumption, so if ever pressed, I'd through that up as an excuse.

I did read recently that Prince August went after someone who was selling castings made with molds that he purchased from them, and I think the crux of that case was that Prince August also sells castings, but again, I can't quote the specifics of the laws under which they filed their suit.

Then again, I know of at least one seller on eBay who sells copies of Imrie-Risley figures, solid-cast copies of Britains, and copies of figures by other makers. I can imagine that if anyone from Britains saw his list, they'd have grounds to go after him.

 

[Tinsoldier]

Dear Baron

Don't get into this arena, I assume that anyone that casts a figure does it because they have an interest. This is a double edged sword, the need to aquire more figures for a collection, or the need to aquire more demand.

If an indivadual copies and markets the casting (painted or unfinished) as an original, then yes the originator has legal rights. To cast for your own enjoyment is your right.

Manufacturers base there return on investment based on the market share that they can reasonably achive. After that , well , it's ????????????

If a manufacturer goes out of business, can they legally go after someone that has reproduced thier figure. And after how long?

This is the problem that we are currently experiencing in the global economy. If the demand is not there then create it. Legally or otherwise. If the product and the price meet what the economy is willing to accept, then the manufacturer is successful. I as a consumer do not guarantee that I will commit to their continued existance. This is called a bail out. We have recently seen this word used a few times.

How many companies have gone down, but the CEO is still swimming and enjoying the good life.

Enough said, back to the RYE, this is a hobby and there are many ways of enjoying it.

 

[Tinsoldier]

Dow Corning have many type of RTV rubber.

My first experience was to use the 3120 (Red Oxide) rubber. Great for streanght and heat, but tears and is dreadful to handel. The 3110 is white and does not mar your cloths (hands) etc. But not as strong, teatrs easy. Mind you the wife does prefer the white over the red. Red does get everywhere, because of the oxide pigment.

Dow Corning did give a presentation to the Ontario Model Soldier Society at one point. And we learned about the different types rubber. The 3110/3120 are silicone rubber. The catalyst is specific to these types. The rubber I use now is the Silastic type. Do not try to make a mould with one half of each type. The result is the second part will not cure.

I have found that Type M works best, but Type J will allow for more elastisity, undercuts.

But again I express that to vacuum the rubber both prior to pouring, and during the process is critical.

Many you be a cast of thousdands.

Signing off

Don

 

[theBaron]

Dear Baron

Don't get into this arena, I assume that anyone that casts a figure does it because they have an interest. This is a double edged sword, the need to aquire more figures for a collection, or the need to aquire more demand.

If an indivadual copies and markets the casting (painted or unfinished) as an original, then yes the originator has legal rights. To cast for your own enjoyment is your right.

Manufacturers base there return on investment based on the market share that they can reasonably achive. After that , well , it's ????????????

If a manufacturer goes out of business, can they legally go after someone that has reproduced thier figure. And after how long?

This is the problem that we are currently experiencing in the global economy. If the demand is not there then create it. Legally or otherwise. If the product and the price meet what the economy is willing to accept, then the manufacturer is successful. I as a consumer do not guarantee that I will commit to their continued existance. This is called a bail out. We have recently seen this word used a few times.

How many companies have gone down, but the CEO is still swimming and enjoying the good life.

Enough said, back to the RYE, this is a hobby and there are many ways of enjoying it.

Hi, tinsoldier,

I'm not so sure about what you say. I can agree with the spirit of your point, that if you're casting for your own use, it's your right. However, since I'm not an attorney, I can't say whether that actually does or doesn't violate some law, and leave us open to action. Now, if you're an attorney, and you've dealt with copyright law, you can speak with authority. But your example is analogous to exceeding the speed limit. Sure, it might be posted at 45 mph, and I may drive at 50, I'm not really hurting anyone, and 45 is a little slow, but I'm still breaking the law, as minor an infraction as it may be. It's then up to the cop who busts me, or the JP who hears the case, to decide how strictly to enforce that law.

It's just something to consider, and as I noted, perhaps some of our fellow forum members who are lawyers by profession might be able to speak more specifically, to that point.

Prost!
Brad

 

[theBaron]

I had an afterthought, too, please don't anyone construe any kind of meaning in my post, that someone who copies a figure is somehow a bad person, I don't mean that at all. I'm merely saying that we need to be aware of possible outcomes, that's all.

Prost!
Brad

 

[1879fanatic]

Brad,
Copyright infringement is based on that, "copy", the written word or traded document. It's nothing to do with buying a product- and using it for duplication of that product. Personal use of a good, excepting copyrighted music, words, and film, is what allows you do anything you want, except where there is financial gain. Now I would be interested in seeing if any figure's images are righted by TM, patent or any copyright laws. It would cost a bundle to do every figure in a line-up. That's why WB has had a CR on it bases for 100yrs... the name.
Mike

 

[damian]

Thanks for all of the advice on molds.
I plan on copying an original figure and not purchasing a commercial mold since my diorama is using LAH from K&C and I want it to look similar if not identical to the original pieces.

I am most curious to see if anyone has copied a Britain, or a KC or any other manufacturer successfully... for personal use of course.

Also, could one not make molds from Tamiya model 1:35 figures for toy soldiers?
How much of a loss in detail would there be?

Before using you K and C figure to make a mould remember to strip off the paint. Using the painted figure makes the mould too bulky and it don't look right.

 

[damian]

Here are some copies of Trophy stuff a friend of mine made

 

[kilted vampire]

Here are some copies of Trophy stuff a friend of mine made

Pretty nice. Does he still have the mould?

 

[Cigarboy]

Thanks for all of the replies. Now I am inundated with information! This is better than lacking knowledge.

When I see some of the examples from pre-made molds, I often find that they lack the crispness and detail of King and Country. Is this because of the painting or the lack of detail in the casting process?

Please remember, I am not interested in buying a pre made mold. I want to learn to copy a complete and painted figure in order to create a larger parade.

Thanks again everyone.

 

[King & Country]

Hi Cigarboy,

Here’s my advice on how to cast copies of K&C figures (or any other companies)… DON’T!

Whether you are doing this for your own personal collection… general amusement… or just to make a few bucks on the side… you are infringing a company’s copyright and legal eagles will descend on you from a great height!!!

Any advice you get from anyone suggesting that you should have no problem with K&C on this is very bad advice indeed.

So, before embarking on this little adventure of yours to save some money consider the potential cost of such foolhardy action.

And also remember this… ignorance of the law is no defence in court.

Best wishes and… happy collecting!
Andy C. Neilson
Co-founder & Creative Director
King & Country

P.S. A little afterthought to my friends Kilted Vampire and Damian… don’t encourage people to copy anyone else’s products… it’s called commercial piracy.

 

[1879fanatic]

ignorance of the law is no defence in court.

UN War Crimes Tribunal?

 

[jazzeum]

No, as an attorney, that's a well settled doctrine.

 

[1879fanatic]

No kidding Brad. The problem is figuring out what venue for prosecution or claim, and spending lots of money where the return will be nill. And you know copyright law...The name not the object, right?

Mike

 

[Spitfrnd]

No, as an attorney, that's a well settled doctrine.

True enough, the pity is that ignorance in making a law is equally no defense. This is not a comment on copyright, which is one of the more carefully legislated areas, but on so many others that our "representatives" just can't resist passing for so many "good" reasons.

 

[kilted vampire]

Hi Cigarboy,

Here’s my advice on how to cast copies of K&C figures (or any other companies)… DON’T!



Best wishes and… happy collecting!
Andy C. Neilson
Co-founder & Creative Director
King & Country

P.S. A little afterthought to my friends Kilted Vampire and Damian… don’t encourage people to copy anyone else’s products… it’s called commercial piracy.

I hope you were not thinking I was encouraging him to sell them. Just for private use. I apologize if I did not make that clear. Is it ok if he modifies it? Using your figure as a starting point?