China: how can this be legal?!?!? (3 Viewers)

[uksubs]

These guys just buy the original kit and recast it. The quality is usually crap.

Is that a fact?

 

[Grant1865]

I just looked at some of the "King and Country" figures on eBay and could easily pick out the fakes. Don't buy much on eBay and would never buy fake military miniatures. We owe Andy and Matt and Tommy Gunn and others for giving us such wonderful figures that are to notch.

 

[tdubel]

Is that a fact?

Neil,
a lot of Russian sellers pirate the kit then repaint and sell. Even some of the better houses have offered me the option of sending the original kit to them to paint or taking a look at their casting that has been made from a kit. Some of them are quite good. Problem is they are driving up costs of original kits. Andrea has increased on some kits a great deal.

TD

 

[enricoquinto]

Hi mates,

I’ve been reading all of your messages. Everyone is free to make their own choice . I always beware of chip imitation: easy come, easy go!
Dear Andy, take your rights but allow me to remind you about what has Oscar Wilde written: “Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to greatness.”

Best regards

Enrico :smile2:

 

[Toy Soldier Brigade]

Hi mates,

I’ve been reading all of your messages. Everyone is free to make their own choice . I always beware of chip imitation: easy come, easy go!
Dear Andy, take your rights but allow me to remind you about what has Oscar Wilde written: “Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to greatness.”

Best regards

Enrico :smile2:

That's great but when you buy this stuff your basically buying stolen property. Be it a stolen item or intellectual property.

 

[zblang]

And like Tom says, the purchase of fake products raises the cost of the real thing. The manufacturer has to make money to keep going.

 

[BLReed]

........ the purchase of fake products raises the cost of the real thing. The manufacturer has to make money to keep going.

Well, they aren't selling much KC. Mostly FL and Collectors Showcase. Hmm. But I agree.

Not aimed at you, but this righteous indignation of piracy, seems to stop with a few toys. I'm more concerned
with the Billions of dollars of theft of Movies and other intellectual property. Using Torrent or Kodi [with legal apps]
and brag about it. And I've seen it on this Forum. http://www.havocscope.com/movie-piracy-losses-by-countries/

KC doesn't need theft as an excuse to raise prices.:smile2::smile2:

 

[King & Country]

Well, they aren't selling much KC. Mostly FL and Collectors Showcase. Hmm. But I agree.

Not aimed at you, but this righteous indignation of piracy, seems to stop with a few toys. I'm more concerned
with the Billions of dollars of theft of Movies and other intellectual property. Using Torrent or Kodi [with legal apps]
and brag about it. And I've seen it on this Forum. http://www.havocscope.com/movie-piracy-losses-by-countries/

KC doesn't need theft as an excuse to raise prices.:smile2::smile2:

Funny how when we reduce some prices that does not get the same attention!!!
Perhaps you missed our new Israelis..?
Best wishes and happy collecting, Andy.

 

[Desertkiwi]

Well, they aren't selling much KC. Mostly FL and Collectors Showcase. Hmm. But I agree.

Not aimed at you, but this righteous indignation of piracy, seems to stop with a few toys. I'm more concerned
with the Billions of dollars of theft of Movies and other intellectual property. Using Torrent or Kodi [with legal apps]
and brag about it. And I've seen it on this Forum. http://www.havocscope.com/movie-piracy-losses-by-countries/

KC doesn't need theft as an excuse to raise prices.:smile2::smile2:

Bit of a cheap shot having a crack at K&C prices under the guise of a discussion about cheap knock off's Mr Reed, don't you think?

Interesting how you only venture into the K&C section if by chance it gives you an opportunity to put the boot in.

Of course that's your prerogative, but some of us take the blatant rip off of a TS manufacture's good work a little more seriously.

I would have thought this type of offending would effect all aspects of the hobby, let alone K&C?

 

[Guest]

Just to add a bit more, I have 2 of the winter French Napoleonic figures as well as a couple of tanks, the tanks are good in my opinion, hard to say whether copy of not as they are generic tanks.....Panzer II and III. The winter French are nowhere near as good as the First Legion figures of the same period, but are OK in the diorama in the background. I also bought the Biber mini sub, which is good.

They do come in boxes, the tanks and the Sub in plain white boxes and they are packed very well in foam. The figures do come in the company's own boxes, they do not come in 'other companies' boxes.

The toy soldier market is very fluid and how we can say they are copies would in some case be difficult. Firstly does the original producer have a patent or legal right to an historical figure? Possible on a pose or a configuration, that is up to the manufacturer.

Generally in the toy soldier market there are always things that could be questioned, I cannot count how many times have I seen 1 manufacturer produce a series and it is quickly 'copied' by others, Romans seemed to have come into vogue again, Aussies and Japanese, the winter retreat of napoleon from Russia and there are more, but it is not illegal as no company owns a 'period'. What about all those people, many on Treefrog, who buy and repaint or remodel a vehicle or figure, is that an infringement of a company's original figure/vehicle legal rights? Finally there are numerous manufacturers and mainly dealers who will sell a figure and/or set and tell you it goes with Britains, K & C or First Legion for example. I had both Conte and Britains, plus T Gunn figures in my Zulu Wars dioramas and that is simply manufacturers produce complimentary figures, is that an infringement in copyright..........piggybacking on other manufacturers?

On another, but linked, point I heard at the London Show in March that K & C will be producing Romans but none of Rome's Enemies, but John Jenkins will be producing those enemies but no Romans. They must 'fit' each other and I think this is a great collaboration, if it is true.

 

[theBaron]

I just fail to see how this can be legal. These are from that Ebay seller from China...

You answer your own question, Zach. The PRC has a different view of copyright and intellectual property than we do. Probably not much the copyright-holder can do.

 

[gk5717]

How can anyone have a patent, copyright, etc on a panzer 3 tank?
Gary

 

[zblang]

you can't, but you can on your version of it.
Abe Lincoln is not copyrightable - but if I make a figure of Abe, and you make a mold and sell it as your own....that is illegal

 

[makava]

This is ongoing problem.It come up on Planet Figure a lot.People from China and Russia seem to be the worst offenders.When you shut one down 5 more pop up.
Mark

It's so sad, I'm chinese,not a lot.chinesePeople is worst offenders. I think that andy's intellectual property should be protected by the Chinese government.

 

[theBaron]

It's so sad, I'm chinese,not a lot.chinesePeople is worst offenders. I think that andy's intellectual property should be protected by the Chinese government.

Careful! You might lose your internal organs if the Party sees your post.

Seriously, though, yes, many copyright pirates operate out of the PRC, followed by Russian, other Eastern European countries, and Thailand. That's not to say that there aren't pirates in other countries, nor is it to say that all Chinese people on the mainland are pirates of intellectual property.

 

[gk5717]

you can't, but you can on your version of it.
Abe Lincoln is not copyrightable - but if I make a figure of Abe, and you make a mold and sell it as your own....that is illegal

I understand your point, especially on a figure. But in my mind a tank, vehicle, etc is a whole different ballgame. Unless you make it battle damaged or add some unique accessary. A tank is a tank.
Gary

 

[Phantom Warrior]

I understand your point, especially on a figure. But in my mind a tank, vehicle, etc is a whole different ballgame. Unless you make it battle damaged or add some unique accessary. A tank is a tank.
Gary

Pretty much true. The same basic vehicle. Make a few minor changes to the tools,, baggage, headlamp and it's not the same. Have a hatch open vs closed or change the camo colour slightly. The giveaway to a copy is where the copy contains the identical historical errors as the original. (Sarcastic comment omitted) ^&grin

Terry

 

[jazzeum]

you can't, but you can on your version of it.
Abe Lincoln is not copyrightable - but if I make a figure of Abe, and you make a mold and sell it as your own....that is illegal

Legally, I'm not clear what you're saying. Are you saying that if you make a figure of Abe Lincoln, and seek copyright on the pose, that's illegal? If so, I would disagree. You can't copyright Lincoln himself because you haven't created an original work. However, you could seek copyright protection for the pose.

 

[zblang]

I mean you can't take my sculpture, make a mold of it, cast it and sell it
Abe is not protected, but my version of Abe is

 

[Napoleon1er]

I don't see how this is any different with a tank. If company A sculpts a vehicle, then company B makes a mold of that same model and uses that mold to produce their own product, that is theft. A vehicle may be more technical than a figure, but it is still a sculpture and still different from other models of the same vehicle in a number of ways.

No one here is saying that you can copyright a pose. What we are saying is that you can't steal a sculpture. It is one thing to make your own version of "Coldstream Guardsman, standing, firing" because the subject has become popular, it is another to literally make a mold of someone else's figure.