Cleburne the Movie (1 Viewer)

[UKReb]

From all the current on-line traffic it appears this is a goer in Hollywood with Jonathon Rhys Meyers cast as Patrick Cleburne and Philip Seymour Hoffman as Secretary of State Judah Benjamin. The only fly in the ointment is the director-Ron Maxwell who did a darn fine job on Gettysburg but botched the sequel G&G.

It is based on the graphic novel of a couple of years ago which leant heavily on Cleburne suggesting that the Confederacy use slaves as soldiers (not entirely true as the Southern press had been banging that drum long before 1864). Where Cleburne got into serious trouble with the Southern government and parts of the Confederate Army was that he insisted that if slaves did fight for the South they should earn their freedom.

The novel covered most of the big scraps in the western theater culminating in the disastrous Battle of Franklin and Cleburne's demise. He was a fine Southern general and thoroughly deserved his nickname "The Stonewall of the West" and without doubt he would be a very interesting ACW character to depict on film. But if Maxwell is still wearing his baptist hat as he did throughout the making of Jackson's film I fear another flop instead of what should be another "Glory"

Reb

 

[Spitfrnd]

From all the current on-line traffic it appears this is a goer in Hollywood with Jonathon Rhys Meyers cast as Patrick Cleburne and Philip Seymour Hoffman as Secretary of State Judah Benjamin. The only fly in the ointment is the director-Ron Maxwell who did a darn fine job on Gettysburg but botched the sequel G&G.

It is based on the graphic novel of a couple of years ago which leant heavily on Cleburne suggesting that the Confederacy use slaves as soldiers (not entirely true as the Southern press had been banging that drum long before 1864). Where Cleburne got into serious trouble with the Southern government and parts of the Confederate Army was that he insisted that if slaves did fight for the South they should earn their freedom.

The novel covered most of the big scraps in the western theater culminating in the disastrous Battle of Franklin and Cleburne's demise. He was a fine Southern general and thoroughly deserved his nickname "The Stonewall of the West" and without doubt he would be a very interesting ACW character to depict on film. But if Maxwell is still wearing his baptist hat as he did throughout the making of Jackson's film I fear another flop instead of what should be another "Glory"

Reb

Looks pretty interesting Bob although I get chills of trepidation every time I see a graphic novel reference. I completely agree about Maxwell but maybe this will be an alternate movie winner/flop scenario; rather like the original Star Trek movie series, with the exception being that the odd numbered movies would be the winners.

 

[lancer]

First I have heard of this movie. They couldn't have picked a better soldier to make a movie about, but, I also fear a possible disaster in the making. To find any backers in Hollywood, the script is going to have to be heavily PC. I do not see that the good, honest story of a Confederate general is going to find much monetary backing in movieland unless a great deal of PC crap is put into the script and becomes the point of the film. A great historical epic can be made of Cleburne's life on it's own merit but I have no confidence that Hollywood will make one. -- lancer

 

[marco55]

Yeah it;s a shame that they can't make a movie showing events and people as they really were in fear of offending someone.People get offended every day.It's part of life.
Mark

 

[Scott]

Yeah it;s a shame that they can't make a movie showing events and people as they really were in fear of offending someone.People get offended every day.It's part of life.
Mark

Do you think Maxwell would deal with Cleburne's alleged homosexuality?

 

[DCN1898]

Do you think Maxwell would deal with Cleburne's alleged homosexuality?

I wonder if they will reference his service in the British Army before coming to America. I read a book on him that said that he was one of the very few soldiers in the Confederate Army that knew how to use pipe clay!

 

[Scott]

Since the movie will be from a "Graphic Novel" the movie may be like "300" and all legend w/o details. An old film like Gone With The Wind, written in the 1930s about a novelist's impression of the 1860s can be excused racism as both times frames had it either intentionally with slavery or in the background like Ni@@erbaby candy and segregation. If you make a movie of an actual novel from the 1800s, you'd have to be true to the novel as much as possible such as a few good versions of Huckleberry Finn showing and using Twain's words. Twain was trying to point out hypocrisy in a time only a few years past from himself.

If you're making a new historical movie you have to take into consideration a modern audience. You can show past actions and words that most today find wrong and point it out, not make the audience comfortable with those wrongs.

Even ZULU pointed out bigotry, sexual repression, religious hypocrisy, and the horrors of war in a 1960s context.

Considering Maxwell's lack of recent film success I wonder if Kleburne will be made.

IMDB for Kleburne.....
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1500484/

 

[lancer]

Do you think Maxwell would deal with Cleburne's alleged homosexuality?

This is interesting. I have never read about any such allegation in any of the books or articles I have read about Cleburne. Where does this come from? -- lancer

 

[UKReb]

This is interesting. I have never read about any such allegation in any of the books or articles I have read about Cleburne. Where does this come from? -- lancer

Al
Personally I would take this with a pinch of salt-although I have seen no real written evidence of whether he was or he wasn't. I came across it mentioned in a book that I believe was called "Conduct Unbecoming" but the author was putting a modern spin (or should I say a 20th century spin) on a practice that was very common during the civil war. That of sharing sleeping arrangements with colleagues or fellow officers-especially when under canvas during winter campaigns or in winter encampments. It was stated he regularly shared his cot with his adjutant but so did the majority of his fellow soldiers basically to help keep warm in some pretty awful weather conditions.

His poor fiancee Susan Tarleton must be spinning in her grave to hear such things of her beloved

Reb

 

[Scott]

That "story" was from...

The Story the Soldiers Wouldn't Tell: Sex in the Civil War
by Thomas P. Lowry, M.D.

..Cleburne supposed shared beds with younger officers, but this gets into the Lincoln allegations of bed sharing which was common in the old "cold" days.

 

[Scott]

The illustrations from the "graphic novel" aren't bad.

 

[lancer]

Al
Personally I would take this with a pinch of salt-although I have seen no real written evidence of whether he was or he wasn't. I came across it mentioned in a book that I believe was called "Conduct Unbecoming" but the author was putting a modern spin (or should I say a 20th century spin) on a practice that was very common during the civil war. That of sharing sleeping arrangements with colleagues or fellow officers-especially when under canvas during winter campaigns or in winter encampments. It was stated he regularly shared his cot with his adjutant but so did the majority of his fellow soldiers basically to help keep warm in some pretty awful weather conditions.

His poor fiancee Susan Tarleton must be spinning in her grave to hear such things of her beloved

Reb

Thanks, Reb. If there had been any real question, one of the historians that have written about Cleburne would have said something. Nothing I have ever read, anywhere, has ever even mentioned any such allegation. Neither Irving Buck, Charles Nash, Craig Symonds, or any of the many other battle histories have any such subject manner in them. It is an astounding idea that such a personal trait could have been overlooked by every historian in the field. Your explanation is reasonable and probable. -- Al

 

[lancer]

That "story" was from...

The Story the Soldiers Wouldn't Tell: Sex in the Civil War
by Thomas P. Lowry, M.D.

..Cleburne supposed shared beds with younger officers, but this gets into the Lincoln allegations of bed sharing which was common in the old "cold" days.

Thanks for the info, Scott. I am not familier with the Lowry work. Is it a well researched work or is it sensationalistic in form? Might have to look this one up. -- Al

 

[Scott]

Here's the Lowrey source

The Story the Soldiers Wouldn't Tell: Sex in the Civil War
by Thomas P. Lowry, M.D.


http://books.google.com/books?id=fr...4&ved=0CBIQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=Cleburne&f=true


BUT there is this on-line in Google books as well.

Conduct unbecoming: gays and lesbians in the U.S. military
By Randy Shilts page 14 (scroll down)

http://books.google.com/books?id=iO...resnum=2&ved=0CAsQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=&f=false



There's the more likely interpretation that there was joking that had nothing to do with what we think is homosexuality today.

 

[lancer]

Here's the Lowrey source

The Story the Soldiers Wouldn't Tell: Sex in the Civil War
by Thomas P. Lowry, M.D.


http://books.google.com/books?id=fr...4&ved=0CBIQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=Cleburne&f=true


BUT there is this on-line in Google books as well.

Conduct unbecoming: gays and lesbians in the U.S. military
By Randy Shilts page 14 (scroll down)

http://books.google.com/books?id=iO...resnum=2&ved=0CAsQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=&f=false



There's the more likely interpretation that there was joking that had nothing to do with what we think is homosexuality today.

Certainly nothing in those readings to reach such a conclusion. Nothing but a "could have been" interpretation of another's writings. Not the evidence one would need to even raise the suggestion. Thanks for the links. -- Al

 

[Scott]

Not like Jefferson Davis' transvestism.

 

[tdubel]

Not like Jefferson Davis' transvestism.

What are you talking about?

 

[Scott]

What are you talking about?

 

[Scott]

It was a popular slander of Davis....

http://home.valstar.net/~jcraig/capture.htm


In keeping with the movie theme, there was a TV show back in the 1960s, The Great Adventure, an anthology of US history stories that included the true version of Davis's capture starring Michael Rennie as Davis.

The Treasure Train of Jefferson Davis (1963)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0592465/

 

[UKReb]

Blimey! If they ever do make a movie on Cleburne and include all of Scott's comments in the script it might be better to title it "Brokeback Mountain II"-

If that's the case I'll give it a miss

Reb