College Football 2011! (1 Viewer)

[theBaron]

I disagree with your comparison to the Holocaust or the Ruandan genocide, or any genocide, for that matter. There were no armed groups roving about, that detered McQueary or Paterno from going to the police, when it became clear that Curley and Schultz weren't going to act. It was a flaw in their character that prevented them, not the fear of death or physical harm if they didn't go along. Paterno, at least, has admitted that he made a mistake, whereas no one else in this affair has admitted making any.

 

[Currahee Chris]

I disagree with your comparison to the Holocaust or the Ruandan genocide, or any genocide, for that matter. There were no armed groups roving about, that detered McQueary or Paterno from going to the police, when it became clear that Curley and Schultz weren't going to act. It was a flaw in their character that prevented them, not the fear of death or physical harm if they didn't go along. Paterno, at least, has admitted that he made a mistake, whereas no one else in this affair has admitted making any.

Good point, though admittedly, those were the comments- comparison to Rwanda, etc- of the writer, not Doug (Combat) {sm4}

 

[theBaron]

Ah, thanks for the clarification, Chris, and my apologies, Doug, for attributing it to you, my fault for reading too fast.

That's a good example of the hyperbole that journalists use all too easily and too frequently, and how they really don't understand the difference between a tragedy, which this is, in the classic sense of the word, and an evil, which a genocide is.

 

[Currahee Chris]

Ah, thanks for the clarification, Chris, and my apologies, Doug, for attributing it to you, my fault for reading too fast.

No worries Brad, though if you are genuine, you can cover my first $25 in purchases at the Gettysburg show this spring!! {sm4}{sm4}

 

[theBaron]

No worries Brad, though if you are genuine, you can cover my first $25 in purchases at the Gettysburg show this spring!! {sm4}{sm4}

Heh, how 'bout a beer instead? At that Irish pub in town?

 

[Currahee Chris]

Heh, how 'bout a beer instead? At that Irish pub in town?

Prost to that!! {bravo}}

 

[Combat]

Ah, thanks for the clarification, Chris, and my apologies, Doug, for attributing it to you, my fault for reading too fast.

That's a good example of the hyperbole that journalists use all too easily and too frequently, and how they really don't understand the difference between a tragedy, which this is, in the classic sense of the word, and an evil, which a genocide is.

I don't think his point is to compare the scope of harm between events like the Holocaust and what has gone at Penn St., but to highlight that people condemn what happened and believe they would have acted differently in similar circumstances. For example, they would have called the police if they had been in Paterno's position. However, the author argues there is a tendency in human nature to stick our heads in the sand.

 

[Currahee Chris]

So.................... is Paterno done or does anyone think some other school comes calling in a year or two (can't wait too long obviously {sm4}).

I said it with Vick, there is too much money involved.....maybe not neccesarily as a head coach but some other role- defense, etc? Amos Alonzo Stagg coached when he was 96!!

Perhaps a bit more realistic- is McQueary done? The guy is my age about, lots of time for some program out there to offer the olive branch in forgiveness.

 

[Combat]

So.................... is Paterno done or does anyone think some other school comes calling in a year or two (can't wait too long obviously {sm4}).

I said it with Vick, there is too much money involved.....maybe not neccesarily as a head coach but some other role- defense, etc? Amos Alonzo Stagg coached when he was 96!!

Perhaps a bit more realistic- is McQueary done? The guy is my age about, lots of time for some program out there to offer the olive branch in forgiveness.

These guys are toast. Paterno is 85 and should have retired years ago. He has taken a big hit on his reputation, but walks away into retirement in otherwise good shape. These other guys will be hard pressed to ever find a job. McQueary is certainly done at Penn St (as are most of the other PSU coaches when they clean house). It's unlikely any major school will take him on. Certainly not in the short term. He might get a job in Div II or high school a few years from now when this blows over.

I wonder if McQ and Sandusky spend the day hiding in their basement? I can't imagine they can go out in public. Just reading that Sandusky is out on bail and that his property adjoins an elementary school! It would be impossible to make that stuff up. And people wonder how things got to this point.

 

[Currahee Chris]

These guys are toast.

ZZZING!! {sm4} Yeah, irrespective of the crimes, I don't think McQueary adds much value anyway, so I can't see any college picking him up in the near future...you are right, it will probably be some DIV 2 school and the announcement will warrant a small paragraph a few years down the road.

Ok, so we have some lawyer types here on this forum- can one of you guys tell me what in the world Amendola (Sandusky's attorney) was thinking letting him do the Costas interview. You can see the look on Costas face as Sandusky runs his mouth "Oh, MAN!! This guy is making my career!!" {sm4}At a MINIMUM you would think he would have coached him up on the responses- unless he is just trying to put enough garbage out there to get Sandusky a lighter sentence due to mental imbalance or something...thoughts??

 

[jazzeum]

Take a look at this timeline that is in Deadspin.com.

It is quite incredible as to all the organizations/people that knew about Sandusky but yet he still had access to the campus.

Here's an excerpt:

Fall 2000: A janitor, James Calhoun, witnesses Sandusky giving a boy—identified as Victim 8—oral sex in a shower at the Lasch Football Building. He immediately tells other members of the janitorial staff. Another Office of Physical Plant employee, Ronald Petrosky, looks and sees two pairs of feet—but nothing more—and later cleans the shower, though he eventually does see Sandusky leave the locker room with a boy he estimates to be 11 to 13 years of age. Members of the janitorial staff fret that they might lose their jobs if they said anything to anyone. Calhoun eventually tells Jay Witherite, his immediate supervisor, who advises Calhoun "to whom he should report the incident, if he chose to report it." Calhoun, a temporary employee, never makes a report. He now lives in a nursing home and has dementia. Victim 8's identity remains unknown. People/organizations aware of allegations concerning Sandusky, as of this date: Penn State University Police, State College Police Department, Centre County Office of the District Attorney, Second Mile attorney, Penn State attorney, Pennsylvania Department of Public Welfare, Penn State's janitorial staff and supervisor.

March 2002: McQueary is called to a meeting with Curley and Senior Vice President for Finance and Business Gary Schultz. McQueary tells them what he saw. Curley and Schultz say they will look into it. People/organizations aware of allegations concerning Sandusky, as of this date: Penn State University Police, State College Police Department, Centre County Office of the District Attorney, Second Mile attorney, Penn State attorney, Pennsylvania Department of Public Welfare, Penn State's janitorial staff and supervisor, graduate assistant Mike McQueary, head coach Joe Paterno, Penn State athletic director, Penn State senior vice president for finance and business.

2006 or 2007: John Miller, a wrestling coach for the elementary school program for which Victim 1 used to wrestle, returns to the local high school one evening to retrieve something. He notices a light is on in a weight room. He goes in to turn it off and finds Sandusky and Victim 1 "lying on their sides, in physical contact, face to face on a mat." Both Sandusky and Victim 1 appear surprised when Miller walks in. Sandusky jumps up and says, "Hey, Coach, we were just working on some wrestling moves." The grand jury report notes that Sandusky was not a wrestling coach. People/organizations aware of allegations concerning Sandusky, as of this date: Penn State University Police, State College Police Department, Centre County Office of the District Attorney, Second Mile attorney, Penn State attorney, Pennsylvania Department of Public Welfare, Penn State's janitorial staff and supervisor, graduate assistant Mike McQueary, head coach Joe Paterno, Penn State athletic director, Penn State senior vice president for finance and business, Second Mile executive director, Penn State president, wrestling coach.

This is just incredible. To the extent the leadership of PSU hasn't been cleaned out, it needs to be.

 

[Currahee Chris]

It is quite incredible as to all the organizations/people that knew about Sandusky but yet he still had access to the campus.

I feel like sending my degree back.

MSN did a timeline as well, was interested in that as initially it seemed there was a huge void of time between 2002- 2009. That's the first I heard of the wrestling issue.

The Calhoun character was initially described as being unable to locate- I presume they found him then.

 

[lancer]

This just keeps getting worse and worse and will continue to do so as all the other incidents get uncovered in their turn. Abusers just don't suddenly start up at a given age, this has been going on for his whole life. The many layers to this whole scandel are incredible. I also wonder what Sandusky and his lawyer were thinking by allowing that interview. What a blunder. -- Al

 

[Combat]

Looks like JoePa knew what was coming - his lawyer's claim is baloney:

"Over the summer, Joe Paterno transferred his share of ownership in his home to his wife, Sue, for $1, according to a New York Times report.

The move came less than four months before the Jerry Sandusky child sex-abuse scandal rocked Paterno’s Penn State football program and caused Paterno to be fired Nov. 9.

Documents obtained by the Times show that on July 21, he sold his share in the house to “Suzanne P. Paterno, trustee” for $1 plus “love and affection.” The Paternos, who bought the State College, Pa., house in 1969 for $58,000, had jointly owned the home, now valued at $594,484.40.

The transfer, according to Paterno’s attorney, was unrelated to the grand jury investigation of the allegations that Sandusky, Paterno’s defensive coordinator until 1999, had abused young boys for years, at times in the showers at the football facility. The grand-jury investigation began in 2009.

The property transfer was part of a “multiyear estate planning program,” Wick Sollers, Paterno’s lawyer, told the Times in an e-mail. The exchange “was simply one element of that plan.”

However, with the identity of six of the eight victims known and others coming forward to allege abuse by Sandusky, Paterno is likely to be a target of civil lawsuits."

 

[Currahee Chris]

I dunno, Doug, I read the same article. Could be, though this type of thing isn't out of the ordinary for estate planning.


So.......... CBS Sports is now reporting that the Paterno statue is going to be removed over the Turkey Day weekend. The removal is timed so that students won't be around to protest,,,,not that making the announcement a week in advance won't get some kids to change their mind!! {sm2}

I heard last night that 10 more kids are coming forward- TEN!!

 

[Combat]

I dunno, Doug, I read the same article. Could be, though this type of thing isn't out of the ordinary for estate planning.


So.......... CBS Sports is now reporting that the Paterno statue is going to be removed over the Turkey Day weekend. The removal is timed so that students won't be around to protest,,,,not that making the announcement a week in advance won't get some kids to change their mind!! {sm2}

I heard last night that 10 more kids are coming forward- TEN!!

Some of the new reports may be suspect. People can now see the gravy train coming with the pending civil suits against Penn St. There's a lot of money to be had for anyone who claims to have been abused. And it's almost impossible to sort out the real cases from the false ones. You see a very similar pattern with the Catholic church.

 

[theBaron]

I feel like sending my degree back.

I feel even prouder today of my degree from Collegium Ursini. Since 1868, and not a scandal to be found.

Though I do concede, we have a losing record in football against PSU. 0-1, back in the 1890's

 

[jazzeum]

That's Ursinus, right, down in Collegeville. Looks like a nice campus.

 

[theBaron]

Correct, or "Harvard on the Perk"(iomen Creek), as we affectionately called it (the college's recruiting materials in the 70s used to note that the school was on par with the Ivy League schools, so an editor of the campus paper coined the nickname).

Very nice campus, and a very good pre-med and pre-law school. There's almost a pipeline between Ursinus and the medical schools in Philly, for example.

Small student body--my high school had more students. It was around 1100 when I was there, and the ratio of students to professors was always pretty good. Faculty were always accessible.

I thoroughly enjoyed my time there. It made me think that that was what college was like in the 20s or 30s. Though, if I were going again, I would select a different major.

Fun facts:

JD Salinger attended, for a semester. Contrary to campus legend, he was not flunked out nor did he fail English. And though the description of Holden Caulfield's school is supposed to be based on Ursinus' campus, the celebrated sycamore tree that grew in the end zone of our football field is not mentioned in the book.

Ursinus participated with Penn in the ENIAC project in WWII. In our sciences building, Pfahler Hall, there is a plaque in the floor of the main foyer to mark where banks and banks of relays and tubes stood, connected to the rest of the array in Philly via phone lines.

One of our English professors had an affair with Jason Robards, when they were much, much younger.

Professor Staiger, in the chemistry department, developed the formula for the grape flavor in Welch's Grape Drink.

Ursinus was founded as a seminary for ministers in the German Reformed Church, which today is part of the UCC. The pastor of the UCC in Collegeville holds the office of chaplain for the college at the same time.

The school was named for Zaccharius Baer (Latinized as "Ursinus"), a member of the second generation of reformers, after Luther, and author of the Heidelberg catechism.

And there are two inscriptions on the facade on Pfahler (pronounced "fay-ler", by the way, or also "failure" by campus wags): "I think Thy thoughts after Thee, O Lord" from Johannes Kepler, and "But still try, for who knows what is possible" from the great Michael Faraday.

Go Bears!

 

[BLReed]

Bad situation that's for sure. I realize that an eleven year-old
is a victim in every sense of the word in cases like this, but what
I can't understand is why a least one of them didn't put his knee
where it would do the most good. And parents? Surely there was
a noticeable change with the kids at home [if they had a home].

This will happen again. Only hope is that parents communicate
with their kids.

Take a look at this timeline that is in Deadspin.com.

It is quite incredible as to all the organizations/people that knew about Sandusky but yet he still had access to the campus.

Here's an excerpt:

Fall 2000: A janitor, James Calhoun, witnesses Sandusky giving a boy—identified as Victim 8—oral sex in a shower at the Lasch Football Building. He immediately tells other members of the janitorial staff. Another Office of Physical Plant employee, Ronald Petrosky, looks and sees two pairs of feet—but nothing more—and later cleans the shower, though he eventually does see Sandusky leave the locker room with a boy he estimates to be 11 to 13 years of age. Members of the janitorial staff fret that they might lose their jobs if they said anything to anyone. Calhoun eventually tells Jay Witherite, his immediate supervisor, who advises Calhoun "to whom he should report the incident, if he chose to report it." Calhoun, a temporary employee, never makes a report. He now lives in a nursing home and has dementia. Victim 8's identity remains unknown. People/organizations aware of allegations concerning Sandusky, as of this date: Penn State University Police, State College Police Department, Centre County Office of the District Attorney, Second Mile attorney, Penn State attorney, Pennsylvania Department of Public Welfare, Penn State's janitorial staff and supervisor.

March 2002: McQueary is called to a meeting with Curley and Senior Vice President for Finance and Business Gary Schultz. McQueary tells them what he saw. Curley and Schultz say they will look into it. People/organizations aware of allegations concerning Sandusky, as of this date: Penn State University Police, State College Police Department, Centre County Office of the District Attorney, Second Mile attorney, Penn State attorney, Pennsylvania Department of Public Welfare, Penn State's janitorial staff and supervisor, graduate assistant Mike McQueary, head coach Joe Paterno, Penn State athletic director, Penn State senior vice president for finance and business.

2006 or 2007: John Miller, a wrestling coach for the elementary school program for which Victim 1 used to wrestle, returns to the local high school one evening to retrieve something. He notices a light is on in a weight room. He goes in to turn it off and finds Sandusky and Victim 1 "lying on their sides, in physical contact, face to face on a mat." Both Sandusky and Victim 1 appear surprised when Miller walks in. Sandusky jumps up and says, "Hey, Coach, we were just working on some wrestling moves." The grand jury report notes that Sandusky was not a wrestling coach. People/organizations aware of allegations concerning Sandusky, as of this date: Penn State University Police, State College Police Department, Centre County Office of the District Attorney, Second Mile attorney, Penn State attorney, Pennsylvania Department of Public Welfare, Penn State's janitorial staff and supervisor, graduate assistant Mike McQueary, head coach Joe Paterno, Penn State athletic director, Penn State senior vice president for finance and business, Second Mile executive director, Penn State president, wrestling coach.

This is just incredible. To the extent the leadership of PSU hasn't been cleaned out, it needs to be.