Confederate flag banned on Amazon (1 Viewer)

[braddinpa]

I think the thing that sometimes we forget about is the decedents of the 9.5 Millions "citizens" living in the Southern Confederacy probably look at it in a positive light (ANV etc). While the 3.5 million slave decedents do not look at it in a very positive light (Slavery). Also, the thing to remember is most of those confederate flags that are flying over or near government buildings or monuments were put up in the 1960's.

The confederate flag set up near the confederate monument in SC was erected in the 1960 in response to the Civil Rights movement. While the confederate monument was set up much earlier. That makes sense. Because I am sure the Union veterans who would have been alive would not have wanted the flag flying for obvious reasons.

I do think some of the companies have swung to quickly. But we have to recognize what the confederate flag means to African Americans. Not a very pleasant period. Both in the 1860's and before (slavery) and the 1960's (Civil Rights movement)

Anyway, just my thoughts.

 

[jazzeum]

I think it' s time for the southern states to get their independence from the US. In a different way, of course.Maybe with a proceeding similar to Scotland...

Other than the fact that secession is illegal (see Texas v. White, 1869), this is just silly. The South of today is a far different place than the one of your imagination and, like the rest of the US, is increasingly economically diverse and multicultural (with two governors who are of Indian origin and an African American Senator from SC). If anything, the Southern states have more reason to stay in the Union today than they did in 1860.

 

[jazzeum]

I think the thing that sometimes we forget about is the decedents of the 9.5 Millions "citizens" living in the Southern Confederacy probably look at it in a positive light (ANV etc). While the 3.5 million slave decedents do not look at it in a very positive light (Slavery). Also, the thing to remember is most of those confederate flags that are flying over or near government buildings or monuments were put up in the 1960's.

The confederate flag set up near the confederate monument in SC was erected in the 1960 in response to the Civil Rights movement. While the confederate monument was set up much earlier. That makes sense. Because I am sure the Union veterans who would have been alive would not have wanted the flag flying for obvious reasons.

I do think some of the companies have swung to quickly. But we have to recognize what the confederate flag means to African Americans. Not a very pleasant period. Both in the 1860's and before (slavery) and the 1960's (Civil Rights movement)

Anyway, just my thoughts.

Amen brother.

 

[The Military Workshop]

As a non American this is an interesting thread and good to see still going. Whilst opinions might be strong it is being conducted in a polite manner and a good variety of opinions aired.

My first real discussion about ACW was about 15 years ago at a meeting with a group called the American Civil War Round Table. From what I could see a perfectly normal group of people with an interest in ACW. Most had been to ACW battlefields etc. I did ask the question which "side" they supported and the overwhelming consensus was the South. I asked why and the response was they were the under dog and held out against the odds. Pretty sure all would have had a confederate flag at their home. I think interest in the Confederate side would be reflected in more sales of Confederate toy soldiers compared to Union (ie. Lee or Grant ?). Dont want to get into the politics of the war but the Confederacy to some non Americans does seem of more interest than the Union.

(loot what ? there's nothing here to loot - quote from movie I am watching as I write, woof woof).

Hilarious to see Ebay has taken down Jacobite flag bearer figures. Does that mean they can not distinguish between Confederate and Scottish ? Or perhaps the start of removing flags of the side that lost. What's next Napoloeonic French flags ? What about the enemies in the War of 1812 and American Revolution {sm2}

I dont have any particular interest in ACW (although I did spend plenty of time looking at the stories of the many of the Generals on both sides which I found very interesting). As an Anglo Saxon I have no issues with the flag but can understand an African-American opinion or a white person raised in the South would differ to mine. However I do find the reaction a bit over the top. A few years from now tourists are going to pay for their way around USA by smuggling in Confederate flags. You will see them on street corners in long overcoats going "Psst wanna buy a you know what flag". No doubt by then the ATF will have added this role to their duties.

On a more serious note I guess the recent killing of 9 people has got a bit of a stronger reaction than the many previous mass killings. Who would have thought one of the results would have been flag control. It was lucky Australia did not have a flag to blame/ban after the Port Arthur massacre of 28–29 April 1996 in which 35 people were killed and 23 wounded by one gunman with an AR15 and SLR and plenty of ammo. No mass shootings since then in Australia (thanks to some you know what control) but unfortunately for Americans it seems there will be no end to them.

 

[Marxmaniac]

Vocal minority in control. George Orwell 1984..................................................

 

[Combat]

Doug,
I am not sure there is any disagreement in our microcosm of a board regarding Public Government Grounds, I have never personally thought a defunct governmental flag should fly over a current Capitol. I do believe that a museum public or private should display any flag in the historical context it is meant to be in. Ironically, South Carolina did remove this flag many years ago and they put it on a civil War Monument in its historical context and it is locked to that monument so that it cannot be lowered to half mast or anything silly like that. Now, the monument is on public ground but I believe all monuments are on public grounds for the most part. I feel like that is a proper line to be drawn.

Regarding the private companies, they are free to do what they want, but IMO I think it is utterly stupid and has done nothing but drive up prices and cause a lot of uproar. The Dukes of Hazzard - Warner Brothers chose now to do this? Funny huh, I would call that capitalizing on a tragedy. That said, thanks to their decision my $25 1/18 diecast car is now averaging $200 on ebay and climbing.............Insane.

The "bans' are all facts, I am not responsible for them they are out there. If anyone is taking away from the debate on the serious issue of race, it is the Companies with these ludicrous (IMO) bans of items for sale. As I stated 30 posts ago, I would not call this Politically Correct, I would call it PC&C - Politically Correct & Convenient. These bans are doing NOTHING to heal race relations, engage in a promising discussion, move forward, etc.

I personally think there is a heck of a lot more important problems than a Confederate flag bandana, lighter, etc. out there to discuss, including a tragic murder of 9 people. Unfortunately, the media and these private companies have chosen this bandwagon to jump on. It is doing nothing for race relations.

TD

I think most reasonable proponents would be satisfied with removing the flag from public places. That seems like a no brainer. Just take the thing down in South Carolina and that would go a long way toward resolving this problem. There are perfectly good reasons to take it down that have nothing to do with it being offensive. It is not the state flag. Because a few retailers have gone to ridiculous lengths is not, in my opinion, a reason to trivialize that effort.

 

[theBaron]

This is all making me sick... http://www.nps.gov/news/release.htm?id=1713

"“We strive to tell the complete story of America." Well, if that's the case, you don't remove anything.

 

[tdubel]

I think most reasonable proponents would be satisfied with removing the flag from public places. That seems like a no brainer. Just take the thing down in South Carolina and that would go a long way toward resolving this problem. There are perfectly good reasons to take it down that have nothing to do with it being offensive. It is not the state flag. Because a few retailers have gone to ridiculous lengths is not, in my opinion, a reason to trivialize that effort.

I don't disagree with moving it in South Carolina. My question is when does the public definition stop. Battlefields, museums?

And I don't think anyone is trivializing anything by discussing the moves made by companies and this message board regarding avatars. I'm believe these decisions are plain stupid and ridiculous reactions that do nothing but distract from the real issues that are articulated here numerous times by the majority of the posters to this thread.

Tom

 

[Combat]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcuWj4MR-SU

 

[trooper]

The tragic murder of these nine unfortunates will not solved by banning the sales of Confederate toy soldiers. If anything this reaction should be viewed as a tasteless attempt to gain publicity from an horrendous event. The prevention of such attacks is almost unsolvable, gun control won't work as gun ownership is massive and could not be regulated with any positive result. Education can only do so much as there will always be a minority who are not to be swayed from their beliefs and there are bound to be those deluded fools who believe they have a message from some Deity governing their actions. In any event revising history will solve nothing. Leave it, learn from it and do your best to make sure similar mistakes do not reoccur. Trooper

 

[jazzeum]

I'm becoming increasingly concerned with the defacing of statues and he calls for removal of all statues. The way to deal with the past is not to erase history a la post USSR. I don't have a major issue with the removal of Jeff Davis from the Capitol but on the other hand he was an important sponsor of having the Capitol finished.

I think what is happening is what you see when both sides discuss a Civil War. It just doesn't normally happen this late. For example, discussions about the Spanish Civil War began in the 1980s. At least some of the participants were still alive. Better late than never I suppose.

 

[Combat]

The Russian bit is funny too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMWfhA5CTm0

 

[Rutledge]

The Russian bit is funny too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMWfhA5CTm0

Thanks for posting this so I know who and what i will never, ever, even for a split second, tune into, ever, even under threat of imminent death.

 

[mikemiller1955]

I hope Peter and Shannon don't intend to remove any of the diorama pictures with the Confederate flag in them...

especially UKRebs...

not to mention all the other great contributions of Civil War photos that have been posted on here in the past by many members...

 

[lancer]

It was inevitable. In Stafford County, Va., there is a swath of private property adjacent to I-95. On this property the owner has a tall flag pole with a large Confederate battle flag. It is visible from I-95 and has been there for quite a while. It has come under assault for being visible to traffic driving by before but now the illustrious NAACP is calling for it's removal and is circulating a petition to that effect, hoping to get lawmakers to ban all such symbols (meaning the Confederate battle flag). I guess the NAACP has forgotten about those pesky 1st Amendment rights. This flag is on private property but that obviously means nothing to the out-of-control PC element that has climbed onto the back of the tragic event in SC. Like an avalanche, this rush to PC will engulf all in it's path and bury individual choice. -- Al

 

[mikemiller1955]

It was inevitable. In Stafford County, Va., there is a swath of private property adjacent to I-95. On this property the owner has a tall flag pole with a large Confederate battle flag. It is visible from I-95 and has been there for quite a while. It has come under assault for being visible to traffic driving by before but now the illustrious NAACP is calling for it's removal and is circulating a petition to that effect, hoping to get lawmakers to ban all such symbols (meaning the Confederate battle flag). I guess the NAACP has forgotten about those pesky 1st Amendment rights. This flag is on private property but that obviously means nothing to the out-of-control PC element that has climbed onto the back of the tragic event in SC. Like an avalanche, this rush to PC will engulf all in it's path and bury individual choice. -- Al

that's private property?

good luck to them on getting that removed...^&grin

 

[Peter Reuss]

I hope Peter and Shannon don't intend to remove any of the diorama pictures with the Confederate flag in them...

especially UKRebs...

not to mention all the other great contributions of Civil War photos that have been posted on here in the past by many members...

The temporary loss of those photos has NOTHING to do with the Confederate flag and EVERYTHING to do with the fact that we moved servers yesterday and are working to get all the forum attachment files in place.

 

[marco55]

It was inevitable. In Stafford County, Va., there is a swath of private property adjacent to I-95. On this property the owner has a tall flag pole with a large Confederate battle flag. It is visible from I-95 and has been there for quite a while. It has come under assault for being visible to traffic driving by before but now the illustrious NAACP is calling for it's removal and is circulating a petition to that effect, hoping to get lawmakers to ban all such symbols (meaning the Confederate battle flag). I guess the NAACP has forgotten about those pesky 1st Amendment rights. This flag is on private property but that obviously means nothing to the out-of-control PC element that has climbed onto the back of the tragic event in SC. Like an avalanche, this rush to PC will engulf all in it's path and bury individual choice. -- Al

Well with today's Supreme Court ruling maybe they will replace it with a *** pride flag.This country is going Down,Down,DOWN!
Mark

 

[jazzeum]

If it's on private property, what's the big deal. Also, that flag over I95 has been talked to death in the civil war blogs and the Richmond papers but I guess there will be some more talk.

Thank goodness for organizations like the NAACP.

 

[Peter Reuss]

Well folks, it's time for this thread to come to a close. We have let it stay open to allow for conversation around this important topic and we appreciate that it has remained civil and thoughtful.

We are at the point where people have had the opportunity to provide their perspective on things. It's time to move on lest we beat the horse one more time.