Confederate flag banned on Amazon (3 Viewers)

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Pushing to the inevitable extreme of PC and flags as symbols that some people might find offensive, start with, as Rutledge posted, those that find the US flag offensive. Then what about the many that find the British flag offensive? The French? How about the rising sun of Japan? I'm pretty sure there are a LOT of people that find that one offensive. Once Pandora's box has been opened... -- Al
 
Rutledge said:
So how will YOU defend the American flag when its flying is said to cause such distress and pain and hurt and offense among so many around the world?
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I'd suggest that the campaign against the Washington Redskins is similar in character, but that seems somewhat more trivial than this issue with the Confederate flag. However, if you listen to "activists" discuss the matter, it's anything but. "American Indians have suffered beneath the white-mans' boot for long enough," they claim. Oddly enough, however, the loudest voices don't belong to Native Americans. Rather, they come from America's growing "fringe-element" of good, old-fashioned marxists. It's that same network of left-wing radicals which opportunistically organizes these cultural "cleansings" whenever they see an opening. Just because there's been no formal announcement, don't think that Old Glory isn't in the cross-hairs. IMO, it most certainly is.

-Moe
 
Well...............As a Brit I still remember the first time I saw a "Southern Cross". I was a boy watching the film "She Wore a Yellow Ribbon" It was the scene when "trooper Smith" (an ex Confederate General) had died of wounds while battling native Indians. Some of his ex NCO'S placed a small Confederate battle flag on his makeshift coffin. It had been lovingly made by officer's wife Mrs. Allshard (I'm sorry , I've run out of red flannel) as "Taps" sounds, United States soldiers and ex confederates salute the fallen hero.I suppose deleting that part of the DVD will be a public service indeed...........Just my opinion!
 
I don't think Ebay or Amazon or Walmart...
or any retailer that has stopped Confederate flag sales has a huge political agenda...
they are motivated by money...
they are probably sorry to see the sales disappear from their balance sheet as anyone...

but the word...boycott...is a terrific motivator for retailers...

that word strikes fear in the heart of retailers...
and can change policy quickly...

when it is "PC" motivated by groups of lobbyists and protesters...
that's one thing...
but when people threaten to boycott your business all together...
the safest move for the retailer is just to drop it and move on...

I would be willing to bet...
if enough people petitioned Ebay to drop Washington "Redskins" memorabilia...
by threatening to boycott them entirely...
it would be off their allowed sales list pretty quick...
 
jazzeum said:
Tom,

The discussion that is being had on this Forum and nationally is a discussion that is a long time overdue and shows what Ken Burns or somebody else said that if you look for the Civil War, just look around you, because it is still an open wound for us all.

In a very unfortunate and unplanned way, this murderer may have done us all a services by having this discussion. Many of us find that flag when flown over a public place offensive because of what it represents and the history that goes with it: the Civil Rights Era, Emmett Till, lynchings, Jim Crow, what happened to the enslaved people of this country pre-1861 and so forth. Obviously, some don't. I think the sooner the better the flag is not there, the better. I, obviously, have toy soldiers that have the flag and don't think much of it.

I'm not going to change your mind about it as much as I try and you're not going to change my mind about it as much as you try. I think what is going on now is settling past accounts, in a very small way, for what happened to African Americans over the years, particularly during Jim Crow. I don't think we would be having this discussion had not the flag been appropriated by white hate groups to keep Black people in their place, who were trying to assert their rights.

The hope is that one day these matters are completely relegated to the history books where they belong.

As an aside, I find that except for flareups like these, most people don't seem to really have an interest in the Civil War, to really discuss it, to really discuss American History and how we got to where we did in 1860. Fore example, I see a lot of people jumping all over Forrest all the time. Obviously, not one of my favorite characters but in his later days, exhibited some good traits, that are often conveniently ignored. When I've posted things in the past, they generally get ignored. Although I don't agree with Poppo about 99% of the time, at least he's interested, so I have to give him that.

Brad
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Brad,

I think that for me, this issue has always been in the history books where it belongs as we are a nation of Americans (notice no pre adjective, I hate those, we are all Americans). I am a Converted Jewish American, before that I was a German American........NO, I am an American, period.

Anyhow, point being, it is history, it is to be remembered and learned upon. That is my viewpoint, I don't find offense in the 5th Michigan Calvary flag who killed my ancestors (literally, in Yellow Tavern, it was a bloodbath). It is a historical regiment that I also respect. 150 years ago, Americans came together to resolve a dispute both sides thought was important enough to fight over and at the time (all issues) it was or they wouldn't have. Today's viewpoint obviously would be different as the times are very different.

In the setting of studying history which can include books, arts, toy soldiers, etc, the Confederate Battle Flag has a rightful place just like any other symbol of war. By this logic, that is the reason I say the same thing about the Nazi Flag. We all have a choice of display and that is respected.

Regarding public places, I have never wavered that it is the choice of those States on what they do, me personally, I do not believe in a flag flying over a State Capitol of a defunct government, that makes no sense and the Flag should not be there. Should it fly on memorials/monuments, etc, absolutely, they are there for historical purposes and that flag is part of the context, so in my opinion it belongs. Back to the board, since we are a hobby board and the Flag is part of our hobby, it belongs in whatever format and context that is - history. For example, I have Bedford Forrest as my avatar because I found in my research , he turned out to be a darn good cavalry commander with no training and that drew my respect. Regarding the Battle Flag, I view it as my free speech, but to delve even further, this is the actual flag of my ancestors as they were part of the Army of Northern Virginia. SO ironically, that is the flag of my ancestry with regards to the Civil War. I am one of the ones who should be the most pissed that the idiotic hate groups appropriated and abused this flag and have blinded the historical perspective of it and what it means to my family.

As I said, I am not about refighting the Civil War, I am not a Lost Causer by that means. The current issue and has been my viewpoint most of my life is that we are Americans, we should have moved on long ago from this Civil War, I have and will continue to do so. Stopping the sale of a Battle Flag is not going to do anything other than cause what you see in this microcosm of a message board. I believe it actually will further the divide, albeit, it may be more silently and not measurable by protests, but I wonder if it doesn't just bring out more racial divide than it heals.

TD
 
I think the real mistake was in the city where the murders happened, the American and state flag were at half mast and the confederate flag flown at full staff! How can anyone not see that as a slap in the face as if the south had some how triumphed? I'm willing to bet if the flag had been lowered to half staff as the rest were we wouldn't be talking about this now. not lowering the Battle flag to at least Half staff seems to imply some sort of "Above it All" attitude and if that's the case, sorry they've brought this totally on themselves.
Ray
 
An arsonist set a black people's church on fire in Charlotte N.C..I'm not a religious man but this sickens me. Is nothing respected in this country anymore.
Mark
 
nmrocks said:
I think the real mistake was in the city where the murders happened, the American and state flag were at half mast and the confederate flag flown at full staff! How can anyone not see that as a slap in the face as if the south had some how triumphed? I'm willing to bet if the flag had been lowered to half staff as the rest were we wouldn't be talking about this now. not lowering the Battle flag to at least Half staff seems to imply some sort of "Above it All" attitude and if that's the case, sorry they've brought this totally on themselves.
Ray
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The Confederate battle flag that hangs above the memorial cannot be lowered to halfmast. It has no halyard to do so, but is fixed in place. It it either full-staff or down completely. -- Al
 
Great thread and excellent posts. I'm still thinking hard to form my own opinion on this. However, I do believe our nation is getting too pc. I'm not religious, but when people want to take down a cross from a hillside that's been there for 100-years, I gotta shake my head. Or when our Christmas tree at the County building is now called a holiday tree, I say, what the heck? Its always the lunatic few that hurts all of us. I sometimes feel, we make laws to protect idiots from hurting themselves and others. Now gun banning people got more ammo for their cause. I just wish this flag debate occurred over more peaceful circumstances.
 
lancer said:
The Confederate battle flag that hangs above the memorial cannot be lowered to halfmast. It has no halyard to do so, but is fixed in place. It it either full-staff or down completely. -- Al
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There is a state law in effect that was extensively negotiated that specifies what can and cannot be done. However, I think Ray has hit the issue directly on the head. Had it been lowered or been able to be lowered, there is probably no debate.
 
wds0855 said:
I agree. I too am enjoying the thoughts and opinions of everyone gathered to this discussion.
Please consider this latest news, and what your thoughts are on this development. I respect opinions on both sides
of the debate and I would be interested on views regarding this:

Apple removes war games featuring Confederate flag from App Store

http://www.theguardian.com/technolo...removes-historical-war-games-confederate-flag
Click to expand...

Verging on the ridiculous. Looks like corporate America is trying to find new ways to outdo each other.
 
wds0855 said:
I agree. I too am enjoying the thoughts and opinions of everyone gathered to this discussion.
Please consider this latest news, and what your thoughts are on this development. I respect opinions on both sides
of the debate and I would be interested on views regarding this:

Apple removes war games featuring Confederate flag from App Store

http://www.theguardian.com/technolo...removes-historical-war-games-confederate-flag
Click to expand...
This in no way surprises me as bozos of corporate America scramble to out PC their competition to protect their almighty profit. Ban the Confederate flag and not the Nazi flag? Give me a break. This downhill slide to PC is nothing but a hypocritical race to be able to claim holier-than-thou status. I suppose the next step is to erase the existence of the CSA from the history books altogether. This is all just such a load of crud. -- Al
 
More:

"The book store at Gettysburg National Military Park’s Museum and Visitor Center will no longer sell certain items with the Confederate battle flag.

Gettysburg Foundation president Joanne Hanley said the book store stopped selling clothing and other items that solely feature the flag.

Books, DVDs, and other educational material depicting the Confederate flag in its historical context will remain.

National Park Service director Jonathan Jarvis had asked park stores to stop selling items that use the flag as a stand-alone feature following the fatal shooting of nine people at a historic black church in Charleston, South Carolina.

Hanley said the move affects 11 items out of 2,600 carried in the Gettysburg store."
 
wds0855 said:
I agree. I too am enjoying the thoughts and opinions of everyone gathered to this discussion.
Please consider this latest news, and what your thoughts are on this development. I respect opinions on both sides
of the debate and I would be interested on views regarding this:

Apple removes war games featuring Confederate flag from App Store

http://www.theguardian.com/technolo...removes-historical-war-games-confederate-flag
Click to expand...


Honestly, this is the part of the whole thing that upsets me most. As I said, the last I want to do is re-fight the Civil War, I just worry that once this slope rolls, there are a crap ton of other symbols that will be attacked - Currency, Flags, etc.

TD
 
lancer said:
This in no way surprises me as bozos of corporate America scramble to out PC their competition to protect their almighty profit. Ban the Confederate flag and not the Nazi flag? Give me a break. This downhill slide to PC is nothing but a hypocritical race to be able to claim holier-than-thou status. I suppose the next step is to erase the existence of the CSA from the history books altogether. This is all just such a load of crud. -- Al
Click to expand...

I think it is a mistake to equate overreaching by private companies (who have every right to do whatever they like for good, bad or no reason at all) on this subject with the primary issue concering the display of the flag on public property. Even if one were to believe the flag is not offensive (which many people disagree with), it doesn't appear to have any valid purpose on public grounds. It is not a state or national flag. So why have it there? No one has suggested banning or precluding private individuals from displaying the flag on private property or somehow removing it from history (even if that were possible). In fact, as many Jewish groups note about the nazis, it is important to perserve such history so that it is not forgotten and repeated. But in the proper place like a museum. I have to wonder if all the angst is more a fear of cultural change. The questioning of old values that some people feel threaten what they consider to be american values. It's an interesting topic but getting sidetracked by issues such as the use of the flag in the Dukes of Hazzard or toy soldiers detracts from the more serious issue of whether the flag should be allowed in public places.
 
I wonder if that low life criminal that did the shooting was not pictured on TV screens across America with the Confederate flag would we even be talking about this?
Isn't that typical America, let's don't blame the perp, let's find something else to put the blame on. In this case the flag.
Gary
 
As usual Americans go to the extremes.No wonder other peoples laugh at us.We are fanatical about everything.
Msark
 
Many groups are using this act by a single person to drive their own very particular and broader agenda. Get rid of guns, ban the CBF, remove historical sites, etc. Some were saying the Jefferson Memorial should go. Im sure certain street names will come under assault, as well city names and universities. I went to college as a place known officially as The University of the South. Should that name be taken down? Washington and Lee was named after two former slave owners, as well the leader of the Conferederate army. Surely they cant continue. UVA has long touted Thomas Jefferson as one of its important leaders. Shall we see all these institutional references wiped out and replaced with what exactly?

There is indeed a feeling of retribution to all this. I fear it will not end well, nor anytime soon.
 
well I have to put in on this I am from Kentucky and in northern ky in the civil war some slave holders joined the union! to keep the usa together
 
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