Do any German vets attend D-Day cermonies? (2 Viewers)

[Scott]

I remember Reagan visited a German war cemetery when he was President and there was a lot of criticism. In part because after he had committed to attending, it turned out that the cemetery contained the graves of some members of the Waffen SS. I think to his credit that he kept the commitment as a show of reconciliation. The Ramones even wrote a song that referenced it in a negative light. They were never too bright though.

I've told this story before on this forum of my father hosting German Sea Scouts at our house in the 1950s and being friendly with a merchant marine captain who had been a U-boat commander.

I asked him about President Reagan going to Bitburg and he said that the SS dead were still guys serving their country. It was likely that my father was wounded fighting an SS unit.

 

[Mitch]

If its the first time that you have heard of allied war crimes then you are not reading enough material or, what you are is outdated and does not now acknowledge that the allies committed war crimes. However, this was not about war crimes as you well know it was about troops who hold their country dear and have fought for that country.

If people want to hold simplistic and palatable views of the allied being good and the axis all bad then fine but, its not good enough for me a soldier especially in WWI and WWII held such things as doing ones duty, honour, oath and loyalty as something almost tangible and real so, I see no reason why anyone from any side should not be able to celebrate, commemorate whatever one wishes to call it their comrades and what they stood for. Just because one side does not agree does not mean it was right or wrong. You talk about things like slave labour and forget about the US history of slaves, the savagery of how they dealt with the native Americans and black people in peace time never mind at war. The Empire was not built on morality and good will and lets remember where the concentration camps derived from.

Are we really that shocked that a systematic German culture just refined these pre existing concepts. Its part of the German psyche to be efficient. Are we surprised that a Japanese culture treat prisoners etc the way they did? Not really but, you have to understand their cultures to understand the way they will act in times of war etc. Perhaps you should read up on some of the allied atrocities and many included very large numbers of dead, raped, etc before trying to just say it was all one sided. What we as the allied sides consider immoral is rather elastic when it comes to how we actually act.

Have a read of trial transcripts from Nuremburg to see how difficult it was and how many actions were dropped against the accused because of the uneasy moral position the allies found themselves in when accusing Germany of war crimes. Its a revealing insight into the dirty hands the allies had. Its the difficulty when one side purports to be good V evil or a war of moral crusades.

I suppose its whether one wants a balanced accurate and true depiction of history or, a slanted biased view which is palatable but only tells half the story.
Mitch

QUOTE=Bessieres;646217]Honestly, this is the first time I ever heard that.

Are you seriously suggesting that the nature of atrocities were EQUAL on both sides?
- the German Genocide
- The German and Japanese use of slave labor
- The Japanese Rape of Nanking
- The Japanese use of Comfort Women
- The Japanese slaughter of POWs

The Axis was evil; the Allies stamped out the evil.[/QUOTE]

 

[DMNamiot]

Ok Guys,

This thread started out as a discussion of Vets and has come close to being deep sixed due to a side discussion of war crimes etc. Lets move away from that topic.

Dave

 

[Warrior]

And also, no more food or beverage references, I'm glad I gave up drinking soda a long time ago or else I'd never be able to bring myself to drink a bottle of coke again............

 

[hotel3alpha]

And also, no more food or beverage references, I'm glad I gave up drinking soda a long time ago or else I'd never be able to bring myself to drink a bottle of coke again............

Sorry Warrior about the Coke Bottle story, but it was what my pops told me. Did not mean to gross you out brother. My battle to quit drinking Coke and Big Red is a daily struggle cause...man I just love a cold soda with ice!

John from Texas

 

[Warrior]

Sorry Warrior about the Coke Bottle story, but it was what my pops told me. Did not mean to gross you out brother. My battle to quit drinking Coke and Big Red is a daily struggle cause...man I just love a cold soda with ice!

John from Texas

No worries, although it does give new meaning to the term "Have a Coke and smile"..........:wink2:

Soda was tough give up, but so were a lot of other things I decided to give up; there are other things I won't give up no matter what.............

 

[tdubel]

Heck of lot of rationalizations in this post, but there are two things that are just not explainable and they are Germany's Final Solution and the Japanese Rape of Nanking as well as other atrocities. I don't really care what the Russians, Americans, Brits, Aussies ever did, those two acts are unforgivable and should never be forgotten. There is NO middle ground on either of them and if you are able to find one and rationalize it away, then sorry, go get your head examined.

As in the arguments of the South/North, I have a truly interesting perspective as a majority of my family are Germans ancestry with great pride and strong viewpoints from World War 1. Interesting enough, my family today is half Jewish. SO, trust me when I tell you I have a very interesting perspective on the Germans and my own heritage and pride.

There is no justification for the Axis behavior in these areas and they were so atrocious that they will continue to overshadow any honor, pride and duty of the Axis soldier, it's just the way it is. That being said, there were a great many honorable Germans too, Rommel being one of them.

TD

 

[jazzeum]

There was a British movie or maybe it was a show where several friends visit Normandy but one of them go to the German cemetery. Wish I could remember the name as it was very good.

The cemeteries in Normandy were very moving, particularly the British cemeteries. The Commonwealth Graves Commission does an excellent job in maintaining the British cemeteries.

 

[Mitch]

Rommel was honourable?? Please explain. He was a fervent Hitler admirer every one acknowledges that and that was part of the reasoning why he wanted to see Hitler time and time again during the plotting as he was loyal to him. Once he decided that Hitler believed he knew better than the staff officers himself included he went along with the plot. Rommel has been exemplified as some kind of allied hero and similar but, he would have fought hard against the allies and kept the third Reich in power much longer had Hitler acceded to his way of thinking and allowed the Generals free tactical command of the armed forces.

I wonder had Hitler had done so extending the war longer if you would have stated he was an honourable German. When times were good and in their favour Rommel was happy to accept medals and accolades including much money but, changed quite quickly. He did not change because of the Einsatzgruppen actions, nor the Final solution or, the politics of his government. he changed because he and the staff thought they were being usurped power.

one final question Why is the rape of Nanking worse in your opinion than the rape of Berlin? Is that not a rationalisation of your own surely as you stated such a position would mean, as you stated, that you need your head examining??
Mitch

Heck of lot of rationalizations in this post, but there are two things that are just not explainable and they are Germany's Final Solution and the Japanese Rape of Nanking as well as other atrocities. I don't really care what the Russians, Americans, Brits, Aussies ever did, those two acts are unforgivable and should never be forgotten. There is NO middle ground on either of them and if you are able to find one and rationalize it away, then sorry, go get your head examined.

As in the arguments of the South/North, I have a truly interesting perspective as a majority of my family are Germans ancestry with great pride and strong viewpoints from World War 1. Interesting enough, my family today is half Jewish. SO, trust me when I tell you I have a very interesting perspective on the Germans and my own heritage and pride.

There is no justification for the Axis behavior in these areas and they were so atrocious that they will continue to overshadow any honor, pride and duty of the Axis soldier, it's just the way it is. That being said, there were a great many honorable Germans too, Rommel being one of them.

TD

 

[DMNamiot]

Ok Gents you were warned to stay away from the war crimes and atrocities subject

The thread is closed pending review.

Dave