Do You Choose Sides ? (1 Viewer)

[Capitolron]

I agree with you there,they must have had B*** of steel to stand there all day and take a lot of punishment.For me as a Brit the Brits are always the good guys and the rest are just the enemy.Its pretty obvious with WW1/2 but a bit different with other conflicts.I hope to start a Napoleonic collection at some point and that will be focused on the Wellingtons forces with the French as the bad guys.Whether its the Red coat or the Khaki i fly the flag.When it comes to the ACW i guess i must support the North as they were for abolishing slavery,but i do also admire the South for the fight they put up.

Rob

Rob

For those of us in America - the Brits arent the good guys in 1776 !

 

[Robert E. Lee]

LOL Mel Gibson taught me alot about your people

I was just jocking when I said this and I am sincerily sorry if I offended anyone. The Patriot is a horrible movie filled with gross inaccuracies. E.G. Tarleton shoots an American off a horse wita flintlock pistol at nearly 100 yards away, The British constantly kill prisoners, The French fly the post revolution flag on their ships, Benjman Martin dosen't own slaves which means in no way would he be able to run a sucessful plantation(this was obviously done to make him appear more likeable). Hardly any of the militia men are racist to the one black man in the unit except one who repents of his views at the end of the movie. South Carolina was the only state that did not allow blacks to serve in the armed forces(the movie takes place in south carolina). The movie credits British victories like Guiliford courthouse to the Americans. And by far the worst of all-One middle aged man and two pre pubescent children single handedly take out a company of experienced British regulars. BTW Harry, in the movie the British burn the church after trapping dozens of weomen and children inside it, Pathetic movie making isen't it

 

[maddadicus]

I saw it once and never will again. Complete historical waste of time....Michael

 

[Capitolron]

I actually hope that Mel does a movie about how America won the Battle of El Alamein after Monty fouled it all up. That ought to be good for a snigger at the historical (hysterical) inaccuracies. Aye, Monty - the least fav Brit General on the other side of the pond of all time due that complete drivel of a movie "Patton" - the movie that DARED to suggest our women aren't bonnie....

We are not going down that road again about Monty and Patton - are we ??

I mean how many times do we need to talk about how America saved England and won the War ??

 

[Harrytheheid]

I was just jocking when I said this and I am sincerily sorry if I offended anyone. The Patriot is a horrible movie filled with gross inaccuracies. E.G. Tarleton shoots an American off a horse wita flintlock pistol at nearly 100 yards away, The British constantly kill prisoners, The French fly the post revolution flag on their ships, Benjman Martin dosen't own slaves which means in no way would he be able to run a sucessful plantation(this was obviously done to make him appear more likeable). Hardly any of the militia men are racist to the one black man in the unit except one who repents of his views at the end of the movie. South Carolina was the only state that did not allow blacks to serve in the armed forces(the movie takes place in south carolina). The movie credits British victories like Guiliford courthouse to the Americans. And by far the worst of all-One middle aged man and two pre pubescent children single handedly take out a company of experienced British regulars. BTW Harry, in the movie the British burn the church after trapping dozens of weomen and children inside it, Pathetic movie making isen't it

Robert,
No worries man.
In no way did you offend, and no need for apologies. This is a forum, where you can say almost what you want as long as its kept reasonable. I actually like the movie - as a movie. Just like Braveheat, its one mans vision of what might have been. I was taken to task in another thread regarding the atrocities that apparently did in fact take place during the AWI. I was unaware of these as American history isn't really part of our school curriculum. I do intend to do some further reading on the subject when the chance arises.
Its the way that some people (in Scotland as well) take some movies, and what they see on TV, as gospel fact that I object to on occasion.

 

[Harrytheheid]

We are not going down that road again about Monty and Patton - are we ??

I mean how many times do we need to talk about how America saved England and won the War ??

Hang on, fishing lines twitching. Think I've got a bite.

 

[Rob]

I was just jocking when I said this and I am sincerily sorry if I offended anyone. The Patriot is a horrible movie filled with gross inaccuracies. E.G. Tarleton shoots an American off a horse wita flintlock pistol at nearly 100 yards away, The British constantly kill prisoners, The French fly the post revolution flag on their ships, Benjman Martin dosen't own slaves which means in no way would he be able to run a sucessful plantation(this was obviously done to make him appear more likeable). Hardly any of the militia men are racist to the one black man in the unit except one who repents of his views at the end of the movie. South Carolina was the only state that did not allow blacks to serve in the armed forces(the movie takes place in south carolina). The movie credits British victories like Guiliford courthouse to the Americans. And by far the worst of all-One middle aged man and two pre pubescent children single handedly take out a company of experienced British regulars. BTW Harry, in the movie the British burn the church after trapping dozens of weomen and children inside it, Pathetic movie making isen't it

No offence at all mate.I'm not saying ALL his films are rubbish,the only problem arises when people believe everything they see.Cinema can have a huge influence on what people think and many people are open to easy persuasion.The final scene in 'Gallipoli' for instance is a disgrace.This had many people leaving the cinema thinking all British officers are murderers.And if you take that other pile of rubbish (not Gibson's)U571,again people will leave the cinema thinking the Americans captured the machine.Its wrong for film makers to change History to suit themselves or some hidden agenda.

As a proud Brit i have to except the bad things my country's Empire did.However it has also stood against and defeated some of the worst dictators in History Napoleon,The Kaiser,Hitler etc.We shouldn't ALWAYS be the bad guys.

Rob

 

[maloyalo]

I agree that filmmakers often (usually) change history to suit their bias's or making it more 'entertaining' by demonizing one or the other sides & it does a lot of damage to truth. General viewers, and even history buffs can get a pretty distorted view. I personnally don't like those scenes where they make up events to get people mad or hating. I would rather know what really happened and make up my own mind on things. Which is probably a general tendency with the buffs. My feeling in general, about the various sides, is that all have acted like beasts and all have acted in very admirable ways at one time or another.

 

[Harrytheheid]

I agree that filmmakers often (usually) change history to suit their bias's or making it more 'entertaining' by demonizing one or the other sides & it does a lot of damage to truth. General viewers, and even history buffs can get a pretty distorted view. I personnally don't like those scenes where they make up events to get people mad or hating. I would rather know what really happened and make up my own mind on things. Which is probably a general tendency with the buffs. My feeling in general, about the various sides, is that all have acted like beasts and all have acted in very admirable ways at one time or another.

Agreed Maloyalo, you have put it better than I did.
What I was trying to say in my original reply to Bobby Lee was that war seems to bring out the worst - and also the best, in people. No one country has a monopoly on courage or cowardice, humanity or cruelty.
For example, while we may despise what the Nazis did, we should recognize the following question has value; was the ordinary Wermacht squaddie any better or any worse than a British Tommy, GI Joe, Italian, Russian, etc.? Probably not. Notice that I don't include Japanese servicemen during the WW2conflict. Their list of atrocities towards POW's and indigenous people beggars belief.
But its all relative. Was the average British Grenadier any more responsible for atrocities that occured during the AWI than the average Panzer Grenadier ordered to take part in suppressing the Warsaw Uprising?
Dunno, again its one of those difficult ones to pin down. We in our, hmmm....relatively safe world - which we tend to take for granted, don't have a right to judge when ordinary people are caught up in extraordinary events.
Just my tuppence worth.

 

[Capitolron]

Harry, Rob, et al...................

Come on ! You Brits were mean B******S when you were over here in the Colonies in the 1700's. There is a reason why we Americans broke ranks from you and your Empire - and it wasnt because we didnt like your tea.

Since, it seems all you are pleading that "you really dont know what happen" in the Colonies because it wasnt taught in your schools - we Americans can supply you with some historical information for your review.

You guys crack me up sometimes

Hey we love you guys !! If we didnt - you would probally be speaking German by now.

hahahahaha

 

[Rob]

Harry, Rob, et al...................

Come on ! You Brits were mean B******S when you were over here in the Colonies in the 1700's. There is a reason why we Americans broke ranks from you and your Empire - and it wasnt because we didnt like your tea.

Since, it seems all you are pleading that "you really dont know what happen" in the Colonies because it wasnt taught in your schools - we Americans can supply you with some historical information for your review.

You guys crack me up sometimes

Hey we love you guys !! If we didnt - you would probally be speaking German by now.

hah

The Battle of Britain is the reason we don't speak German mate,not D day

Also i don't think we are 'pleading' we don't know about the AWI,its just its not really an issue over here.America has long been seen as our closet ally and any animosity is long forgotten on this side.And of course we did bad things to other peoples,your country did it too Ron it just doesn't give Mr Gibson the right to go charging round the world distorting History.

Just my humble opinion as a nasty old colonial murdering pillaging Brit of course!

 

[maddadicus]

I will say this....England has been ,for some time, the USA's most loyal and near only friend in a world of political expedience and outright international cowardice...Our 2 administrations may change, but hopefully that bond of trust and quiet resolve between our nations to do right, will never be shakened. If the bad guys need to be taken on, I can think of no other country that I would want to protect our flanks ,then England. ( an aside to the Aussies... I love the grit of your leader and his standfastness )Michael

 

[Rob]

Thank you Michael i appreciate that.Our two countries stood together in two world wars and i like to think we stood with you after 9/11.Long may the special relationship continue.

Rob

 

[Capitolron]

The Battle of Britain is the reason we don't speak German mate,not D day

Also i don't think we are 'pleading' we don't know about the AWI,its just its not really an issue over here.America has long been seen as our closet ally and any animosity is long forgotten on this side.And of course we did bad things to other peoples,your country did it too Ron it just doesn't give Mr Gibson the right to go charging round the world distorting History.

Just my humble opinion as a nasty old colonial murdering pillaging Brit of course!

Rob

I only believe what I see in the movies.....

 

[Rob]

Rob

I only believe what I see in the movies.....

Me too,am really looking forward to that movie in which Rachael Weiz wants to marry a postman.I can see the title already ' The Constant collector'

Rob

 

[Robert E. Lee]

What about that time you all were murdering those poor little scots? Only William Wallace stood up for FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[aujj65]

What a lot of people seem to forget or are not aware of is that at one point there were more Americans fighting on the side of us nasty old British than against! Some look at the AWI as "The First American Civil War".

Jeff

 

[Robert E. Lee]

I think it was more like 1/3 patriot 1/3 tory and 1/3 fence sitter

 

[eborris]

While some people look for the historical accuracies in movies, I watch them purely for entertainment. Whoever writes or sometimes directs the movie can pretty much slant them anyway they want and yes, I often think these writers have an agenda. Sometimes they want you to hate one side or the other and sometimes they want you to show sympathy for one side. Just remember it's a movie and one persons version of events.

 

[Harrytheheid]

Harry, Rob, et al...................

Come on ! You Brits were mean B******S when you were over here in the Colonies in the 1700's. There is a reason why we Americans broke ranks from you and your Empire - and it wasnt because we didnt like your tea.

Since, it seems all you are pleading that "you really dont know what happen" in the Colonies because it wasnt taught in your schools - we Americans can supply you with some historical information for your review.

You guys crack me up sometimes

Hey we love you guys !! If we didnt - you would probally be speaking German by now.

hahahahaha

Yessss.....got a bite. Let's see what we've caught today.

Sorry Ron, but you're out of order and shall be laughed out of court.
No, American history isn't taught in our schools per se, but then British history isn't taught in your schools either.
How much were you taught in school about the British Civil Wars during the 17th century? the Regency? Alfred the Great? the Jacobites? the Enlightenment? the Gunpowder Plot? William the Conquerer? Columba? the early Stewart Kings, the Danegeld? the invitation to George 1st to accept the throne? the Reformation? King Canute? Britain's trade links with the Hanseatic League? William & Mary and the Glorious Revolution? the relationship between Elizabeth the 2nd and Mary Queen of Scots - and why Elizabeth had no alternative but to order Mary's execution? - Precious little I would hazard a guess.
Anything you do know about the examples I've given above would be self-taught out of a thirst for knowledge - just like my desire to learn more about the AWI in future. So please do supply me with some historical information for my review. Just please ensure it's relevant.

Incidentally, Rob mentioned that we don't speak German because of the Battle of Britain which is 100% correct. We stood alone against the evils of totalitarianism throughout the summer and autumn of 1940 and then though to December 1941. Thankfully, some Americans didn't follow Kennedy's line and volunteered to fly against the Luftwaffe with us, along with a handful of Czechs, Poles, Free French, etc. - A period of our history in which we can take justifiable pride.

Do you really believe the US could have beaten Hitler and his gang without the considerable contribution made by the rest of the Allies? Don't make me laugh. It was only because Roosevelt insisted on "Germany First" that the US Isolationists didn't carve out it's own Imperial Empire in Asia in the wake of the Japanese invasions of countries with poorly equipped, poorly led, and poorly trained defence forces.
While in no way belittling the US effort during the Island-Hopping campaign, don't forget there was simultaneous war going on in Assam, Burma, Siam and ultimately Malay - mostly carried out by British and Commonwealth troops.

Next case please.