Eagle Design 1/30 Panzer III (1 Viewer)

War Park

War Park

Specialist
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Feb 22, 2016
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389
It's so cheap.I think it will be a challenge for other manufacturers.
You spend the mony of other brands' one Panzer III can buy 3~4 Eagle Design Panzer III tanks.
Or you can buy one Eagle Design Panzer III tank and spend other money to find a good painter to repaint it.
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Hmm... that is awfully close to the First Legion version. I am not sure how you decide if it is really a counterfeit or just another take on a vehicle. Jazz, do you know?
 
I would judge it to be an improvement over the First Legion Panzer III if it has metal tracks and wheels. I think of these as 1/30 Minichamps Panzers with opening hatches; a great step forward in 1/30 and it beats polystone IMO.
 
I don't think it is a counterfeit. You can see some mold seems on the Grey PZ 3. In my opinion it is not as detailed as the fl version. I own the fl Pz3 and you can see the difference. But saying that. I think it is a great alternative if you don't want to spend 300. A little painting and these will look good. for 100. This is good value.
 
bradleyl30 said:
Hmm... that is awfully close to the First Legion version. I am not sure how you decide if it is really a counterfeit or just another take on a vehicle. Jazz, do you know?
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I think with tanks it may be hard to tell. If it is exactly the same down to all the details that FL uses, it might be a copy. Otherwise, probably just another take. It's probably easier to tell with figures due to poses and so forth.

I thought I had read that Treefrog was going to carry these or that Richard Walker was a representative.
 
Treefrog has the Eagle Design Panzer II listed as a preorder under Del Prado. I expect the Panzer III will be listed in the near future. Four Toy Soldier manufacturers currently make the Panzer III in 1/30; TCS, K&C, FL and now Eagle Design. The various model vary in detail, but none could be considered a copy of the others. The Eagle Design/Del Prado version could be considered the most unique in featuring metal tracks and wheels. Treefrog would never consider selling a knockoff of another manufacturers product IMO.

jazzeum said:
I think with tanks it may be hard to tell. If it is exactly the same down to all the details that FL uses, it might be a copy. Otherwise, probably just another take. It's probably easier to tell with figures due to poses and so forth.

I thought I had read that Treefrog was going to carry these or that Richard Walker was a representative.
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Nice looking tank. Not as detailed or as well painted as FL but great value for the money.

Personally I wish they would have picked a different variant of the Panzer III. I never understand why manufacturers always seem to do the exact same models as the competition. This would have been great if it was a short barreled 50mm version without the spaced armor or one of the earlier 37mm cannon versions with the dual MGs in the mantlet.

They need to make a halftrack next. I really would like to see an SdKfz 251 Ausf D SPW from them. I'd buy a couple at this price point.
 
I think the Eagle Design Panzers are superior in detail to K&C and TCS Panzer IIIs, especially in the area of tracks and running gear. I believe they are equivalent to TG, and Figarti, but inferior to FL in details and paint quality. Details can be added and paint quality/weathering improved by the buyer.

Early Panzer III models with the 37mm gun were made in 1/30 scale by Nichimo and can frequently be found on Ebay. Bandai also made a line of decent 1/30 scale models i.e. Panzer IV, Jagdpanzer IV and Hummel. The models are well done and easy to build. The Hummel and Jagdpanzer L70 I have built measure an exact 1/30 scale and are better detailed than polystone examples. 21st Century made an early Panzer III with the 37mm gun and it is a pretty accurate example.The price is good too!

I would like to see the Panzer II and III followed with a Panzer IV H and an early version Panther; which to my knowledge has yet to be done in 1/30.
 
This tank has steel wheels,steel track,steel barrel.So of course，it's not a counterfeit.
Anyway it is cheap.
 
Hunter Rose said:
Nice looking tank. Not as detailed or as well painted as FL but great value for the money.

Personally I wish they would have picked a different variant of the Panzer III. I never understand why manufacturers always seem to do the exact same models as the competition. This would have been great if it was a short barreled 50mm version without the spaced armor or one of the earlier 37mm cannon versions with the dual MGs in the mantlet.

They need to make a halftrack next. I really would like to see an SdKfz 251 Ausf D SPW from them. I'd buy a couple at this price point.
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I agree about hoping for a different version. I hoped for G with short 50 or early J with a short 50 and now spaced armor on the mantle.
 
germanlightingwar said:
This tank has steel wheels,steel track,steel barrel.So of course，it's not a counterfeit.
Anyway it is cheap.
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I do not think replacing resin wheels, track and barrel mean it is not a counterfeit, and in fact using different materials often signals a counterfeit. I think this comes down to the mold, and when I blow the 2 by 2 detailed shot up and compare it to my FL Panzer IIIs they are exactly the same. This includes how the turret connects to the chassis, how the doors connect and open, and where all the tools and other external pieces attach. Some are not painted in a wood color, but everything is exactly the same. Some of this might be reasonable if you are using the same publicly available sources as inspiration, but I think there are enough similarities to warrant doubt.

For me it brings up a quandary as I work for a company where intellectual property and other knowledge assets are very important to how we thrive as an enterprise. I usually engage with people like Brad to protect these things or ensure proper use of IP. So, for me it is important to respect other's IP, trademarks, patents and copyrights. I think Matt puts an awful lot of time and effort into getting things historically correct which is unprecedented in our hobby. I want to honor that.

I just think we should all be aware that most likely this is a copy of the FL Panzer III, and potentially even a recast of it.
 
Unless you have done a side by side forensic examination of the Eagle Design Panzer III and the First Legion Panzer III I would be very carefull in leveling an accusation of counterfiting. The design of the Panzer III is public domain and has been produced as a model by many companies over many years to various levels of accuracy and detail. No rational reason exists to copy the FL product. Some features of the FL product may be similar to a Tamiya model and not be a counterfit.


bradleyl30 said:
I do not think replacing resin wheels, track and barrel mean it is not a counterfeit, and in fact using different materials often signals a counterfeit. I think this comes down to the mold, and when I blow the 2 by 2 detailed shot up and compare it to my FL Panzer IIIs they are exactly the same. This includes how the turret connects to the chassis, how the doors connect and open, and where all the tools and other external pieces attach. Some are not painted in a wood color, but everything is exactly the same. Some of this might be reasonable if you are using the same publicly available sources as inspiration, but I think there are enough similarities to warrant doubt.

For me it brings up a quandary as I work for a company where intellectual property and other knowledge assets are very important to how we thrive as an enterprise. I usually engage with people like Brad to protect these things or ensure proper use of IP. So, for me it is important to respect other's IP, trademarks, patents and copyrights. I think Matt puts an awful lot of time and effort into getting things historically correct which is unprecedented in our hobby. I want to honor that.

I just think we should all be aware that most likely this is a copy of the FL Panzer III, and potentially even a recast of it.
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katana said:
Unless you have done a side by side forensic examination of the Eagle Design Panzer III and the First Legion Panzer III I would be very carefull in leveling an accusation of counterfiting. The design of the Panzer III is public domain and has been produced as a model by many companies over many years to various levels of accuracy and detail. No rational reason exists to copy the FL product. Some features of the FL product may be similar to a Tamiya model and not be a counterfit.
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I agree that it is too early to level an accusation, but not too early to express a concern. I will wait and see what unfolds. The concern would be doing a recast, and not just drawing inspiration.

This is a ridiculous statement, "No rational reason exists to copy the FL product." Let me begin a list:

1. Faster time to market
2. Cheaper time to market
3. Established level of quality (hinges, turret to chassis connection, etc.)
4. Established market to exploit (not necessarily a bad thing)
5. Reduced risk of historical inaccuracies as this product has been well reviewed and analyzed
6. Reduced risk of creating and testing small and fragile items

I could list more, but those are big ones. Some are not bad to do if you are creating the item yourself, but become issues once you use someone else's work.

We will wait and see.
 
Richard Walker states that History Works, his company stands behind the Eagle Designs products and that he has worked with them for 10+ years and Treefrog intends to carry them; all of which indicates to me that these are respectable products not knockoffs or copies of FL or any other Toy Soldier manufacturer.

I understand from what Matt at First Legion has described of his products manufacturing technique; that it is assembled from cast resin sub assemblies, metal and injection molded parts.
Obviously a complex process that produces a highly detailed model; but a labor intensive and thus expensive process. The Eagle Designs price point would not support the level of detail and quality
achieved by First Legion IMO.
 
bradleyl30 said:
I agree that it is too early to level an accusation, but not too early to express a concern. I will wait and see what unfolds. The concern would be doing a recast, and not just drawing inspiration.

This is a ridiculous statement, "No rational reason exists to copy the FL product." Let me begin a list:

1. Faster time to market
2. Cheaper time to market
3. Established level of quality (hinges, turret to chassis connection, etc.)
4. Established market to exploit (not necessarily a bad thing)
5. Reduced risk of historical inaccuracies as this product has been well reviewed and analyzed
6. Reduced risk of creating and testing small and fragile items

I could list more, but those are big ones. Some are not bad to do if you are creating the item yourself, but become issues once you use someone else's work.

We will wait and see.
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I agree it's a ridiculous statement but this is not the first time he's made them. If you can make a product identical to FL's you can cause confusion in the mind of the public as they may think they're buying a FL product, but at a fraction of the price. It's a classic trademark infringement case. In addition, if a person purchases one of these tanks thinking that it's not FL but close enough, that too is an infringement.
 
Why not copy the K&C or TCS Panzer III; they are molded polystone and far less expensive to manufacturer than the build up process employed by First Legion. The reason I said that their is no rational reason to copy FL is that it would be too expensive. Better to build a superior product as Eagle Designs is doing with metal tracks, wheels and gun barrels. Eagle Designs is copying Minichamps if they are copying anything.

I obviously must work harder to explain my thought processes to avoid misunderstandings of certain concepts i.e. do not copy an existing product, make a better product at a lower cost!
 
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