Favorite/ Most effective German Panzer of WW2 (1 Viewer)

[Mitch]

all the more surprising that manufacturers seem to be uninterested in releasing Panzer IV's. I know Figarti have one out but, its surprising that there are not more variants out there across the board.
Mitch

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Excellent post Terry!! You setup the question quite well. Me, I'd take the extra Panzer IVs- or, if possible, a dozen Abrams M1A2's {sm4}

Why is it, no matter which battle or war being discussed, you end up with Abrams tanks. {sm3}{sm4}{sm4}

The question of Panzer IV vs Tigers can be asked on a strategic/tactical level as in my previous post or it can also be asked on an Operational level. Would you rather have a company of Tigers or a Battalion of Panzer IVs?

I read that Tigers had an overall 6:1 kill ratio and that long barrel Panzer IV had a 5:1 kill ratio against standard Shermans. I wonder how much better the Tiger kill ratio was than the Panzer IV against all allied tanks and on the Eastern front.

Terry.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

all the more surprising that manufacturers seem to be uninterested in releasing Panzer IV's. I know Figarti have one out but, its surprising that there are not more variants out there across the board.
Mitch

I'm going to guess there are at least a dozen Panzer IV from K&C, Figarti and CS including short and long barrel and summer/winter.

Terry

 

[Mitch]

I should have qualified the post with long barraled late war Panzer IV with or without skirts. That was in my mind as I wrote it. Last K&C was the desert version with long barral so, would be interested in seeing one from them. The figarti ones were limited runs of 100 I think and the CS 400 but, neither really portrayed well IMO the side skirts

In relation to the kill rates when reading the Totenkopf tigers book and other eastern front books it always amazes me when action reports show three or four tigers along with small numbers of Panzer IV's repel an attack of 60 70 or more T-34's for no losses or 1 loss
Mitch

I'm going to guess there are at least a dozen Panzer IV from K&C, Figarti and CS including short and long barrel and summer/winter.

Terry

 

[Currahee Chris]

Why is it, no matter which battle or war being discussed, you end up with Abrams tanks. {sm3}{sm4}{sm4}

Not true, sometimes I end up with the Bradley!!

Interesting stats on the kill ratios as well.

@Mitch, I think either the lack of Pz IV's or the lack of German Grey early war vehicles has puzzled collectors, myself included for neigh on a decade now.

@Terry- I think you are right- especially going through the numbers in my head- at first a dozen seemed high but when you throw in AK I think 12 sounds about right.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

There may be only 9 Panzer IV - 2 short barrel and 7 long barrel.

Afrika Korps K&C has a short barrel and an old model of a long barrel P IV. Figarti and CS each have a long barrel P IV That's 4 AK

Europe Figarti has a summer version of a long barrel just released and a winter long barrel as does CS. K&C has only a grey short barrel. That's 5 in Europe

FL hasn't made a P IV yet.

Have I missed any?

Terry

 

[lancer]

There may be only 9 Panzer IV - 2 short barrel and 7 long barrel.

Afrika Korps K&C has a short barrel and an old model of a long barrel P IV. Figarti and CS each have a long barrel P IV That's 4 AK

Europe Figarti has a summer version of a long barrel just released and a winter long barrel as does CS. K&C has only a grey short barrel. That's 5 in Europe

FL hasn't made a P IV yet.

Have I missed any?

Terry

Just being picky but KC has done 2 short barreled, gray Mk. 4's. -- Al

 

[fmethorst]

These types of discussions are always interesting because without a clear set of measurable comparison criteria it becomes an apples an oranges discussion with people going off in a variety of directions.

 

[Mitch]

I suppose effectivness also comes down to who was in the tank. Many german aces never got near a Tiger or konigstiger or, anything like that and, racked up many many kills in Stugs and Panzer IV's. Good training and effective communications played a great role in the battlefield success of the armour of the germans
Mitch

 

[uksubs]

These types of discussions are always interesting because without a clear set of measurable comparison criteria it becomes an apples an oranges discussion with people going off in a variety of directions.

That why I did not post^&grin

 

[Currahee Chris]

That why I did not post^&grin

That shouldn't deter you. You are exceptionally knowledgeable on WW2, especially German forces and equipment.

These threads are intentionally left vague by myself fellas in an effort to stimulate discussion. While I could go into setting and defining exacting parameters to satisfy a higher level of precision, I don't really see the need as this is a leisure forum, not an academic/ military science one.

 

[lancer]

All the German armor freaks we have on this forum and we only have 22 votes? Well, I guess it's not surprising, considering normal voter turnout. -- Al

 

[ucla1967]

I vote for the Panzer V-Panther which was the best AFV in World War II, in my opinion. Although I have a special regard for the long-barrell Panzer III which just looks right, especially in the panzer gray color with Balkan cross.

 

[fmethorst]

I vote for the Panzer V-Panther which was the best AFV in World War II, in my opinion. Although I have a special regard for the long-barrell Panzer III which just looks right, especially in the panzer gray color with Balkan cross.

Something like this?

 

[ucla1967]

Something like this?

Exactly. Great display!

 

[wayne556517]

Pz.Befehlstiger(P) of the schwere Panzerjäger Abteilung 654Russia, Late 1942





Specifications
General

Type: Heavy Tank
Crew: 5
Production: 1942-1944 - 1355 (total Tiger I)
Engine
Maybach HL230 P45 (V-12 petrol) | 682 hp
Dimensions/Masses
Length: 8.45 m | Width: 3.55 m | Height: 3.00 m
Weight: 56900 kg
Armor
Maximum: 110 mm - Minimum: 25 mm
Performances
Max. Speed: 38 km/h | Power/weight: 12.3 hp/t | Range: 195 km
Suspension: torsion bar
Armament

Main: 88 mm KwK 36 L/56 (92 rounds)
Secondary: 3 x 7.92 mm MG34 (4800 rounds)

 

[TomNT]

I reckon this one after they got all the bugs out of it.

Tom

 

[waynepoo]

From the allied point of view a dead one........{sm3}^&grin
Wayne.

 

[Thompyt]

Think the Stugs were the real backbone of the german attacks and troops always felt better when a unit of stugs were in their area.

Its also where the over represented Wittmann scored most kills!!! Wonder if an SL wittmann stug would sell as well as a Tiger 1 with his name attached??? Quite bored with the tiger at the moment would like to see full skirted Panzer III or IV's and it would be nice to see some Flakpanzers mobel, wirbel, kubel not really bothered but, it would be good to see
Mitch

I agree, StuGs were the mainstay. StuG II & IV. Since I didn't have that choice, I chose the PKW IV as it was the main tank with the most offshoots used in the war. PKW V was too unstable mechanically.

 

[johnnybach]

Something like this?

What a superbly done picture. Well done! jb