Financial Meltdown (1 Viewer)

[Combat]

Well senate added 349 pages to make it even more difficult to read, and

another 150 Billion in expenses so the grand total is $850 Billion.

This is taken directly from pages 28-29:

(b) HOMEOWNER ASSISTANCE BY AGENCIES.—
11 (1) IN GENERAL.—To the extent that the Fed12
eral property manager holds, owns, or controls mort13
gages, mortgage backed securities, and other assets
14 secured by residential real estate, including multi15
family housing, the Federal property manager shall
16 implement a plan that seeks to maximize assistance
17 for homeowners and use its authority to encourage
18 the servicers of the underlying mortgages, and con19
sidering net present value to the taxpayer, to take
20 advantage of the HOPE for Homeowners Program
21 under section 257 of the National Housing Act or
22 other available programs to minimize foreclosures.
23 (2) MODIFICATIONS.—In the case of a residen24
tial mortgage loan, modifications made under para25
graph (1) may include—
29
O:\AYO\AYO08C32.xml S.L.C.
1 (A) reduction in interest rates;
2 (B) reduction of loan principal; and
3 (C) other similar modifications.

Not much point in busting your butt anymore, your just going to be paying

for the guy in the Escalade's Spinny Wheels.

This appears to be a grain of sand on the beach in the recovery plan. I don't see any free rides here, but helping out some folks who got caught up in this mess. They still have to pay for their homes - just not at unreasonable rates that no one could afford. The alternative is to throw thousands of families on the street and leave these properties vacant with no payments being made and the government absorbing the entire cost.

 

[Njja]

This appears to be a grain of sand on the beach in the recovery plan. I don't see any free rides here, but helping out some folks who got caught up in this mess. They still have to pay for their homes - just not at unreasonable rates that no one could afford. The alternative is to throw thousands of families on the street and leave these properties vacant with no payments being made and the government absorbing the entire cost.

Interesting thoughts.

We added 20% to National Debt in last week........some grain of sand.

Reducing Principal isn't a Free Ride?

People buying homes they couldn't afford then failing to make payments,

and creating this financial mess have now become:

Folks caught up in this mess?

You just explained how we got into this situation!

It wasn't my Fault.......I didn't know what I was signing!......The Sign was in English!........The print was to small..........Tommy did it......

 

[Canadian Samurai]

The hidden story I'm trying to point out is say 1/2 of that trillion dollars pulled out on a bad day goes into the bank, 500 billion dollars in liquidity occurs in one day!
I still don't see the need for the bailout and no one has shown me any real reason except" The Sky is Falling, The Sky is Falling"!
Ray

This is an excellent point. The stock market operates as a force unto itself and there is not a 1:1 relationship with the rest of the economy. Contrary to what the media seems to think nowdays, the Dow Jones or TSX is not the primary indicator of economic performance in a country. Instead economists look at Gross Domestic (or National) Product. While GDP/GNP is far from an ideal indicator of quality of life, it is still leagues more relevant to the average person on main street.

Case in point, today in Canada Merrill Lynch downgraded Potash Corp's stock to sell which rocked our stock market (the TSX). Now Potash Corp is the largest producer of fertilizer in the world. They also just made a record profit but it wasn't quite "up to expectations". Now last time I checked, the world is facing a global food shortage in some developing countries, and these geniuses think we need less fertilizer? They are letting this financial crisis affect their judgment of solid stocks, which again is the only reason to worry about this whole situation. People flock irrationally, like birds.

Maybe we should just get rid of the casino that is the stock market altogether. Before corporations arose a few hundred years ago the world got by just fine without this new god that we worship at the altar and do everything we can not to upset. Rome conquered most of the known world without one. A return to an economy dominated by small businesses instead of a few monoliths might be preferable, it sure would fit economist's ideal perfect competition model a whole lot better (I know Ray, we've had this discussion before).

 

[Canadian Samurai]

I've tried to avoid getting involved in this discussion, as, frankly, I don't know the first thing about the economy, but I have very much enjoyed reading it.

The one thing that seems to be an overarching truth regarding human nature is that we are relatively short sighted, rarely being able to see past a year or two, much less a generation or a lifetime. I think the real problem with the idea of the free market fixing everything is that the free market is about profit, measured in quarters or at most a single year. No matter how intelligent the CEO, I suspect that his or her efforts will be focused on quarterly or yearly profit margins, not on benefiting mankind or the planet over generations.

The same goes for politicians. The rarely look beyond their term of office, and usually focus on what will get them re-elected, a short term goal. I doubt that either government or business will solve the economic and environmental problems we now face.

Louis, I think you've hit the nail on the head.

 

[nmrocks]

CS,
Sounds like a good time to buy that stock!
And by the way, I'm not totally sold on Monoliths, while there generally more efficient to a certain point and can deliver a cheaper product to the masses, there has to be room for the start-up and small business but i wouldn't know where to begin to protect without making another beauracratic mess.

 

[OzDigger]

I've tried to avoid getting involved in this discussion, as, frankly, I don't know the first thing about the economy, but I have very much enjoyed reading it.

The one thing that seems to be an overarching truth regarding human nature is that we are relatively short sighted, rarely being able to see past a year or two, much less a generation or a lifetime. I think the real problem with the idea of the free market fixing everything is that the free market is about profit, measured in quarters or at most a single year. No matter how intelligent the CEO, I suspect that his or her efforts will be focused on quarterly or yearly profit margins, not on benefiting mankind or the planet over generations.

The same goes for politicians. The rarely look beyond their term of office, and usually focus on what will get them re-elected, a short term goal. I doubt that either government or business will solve the economic and environmental problems we now face.

Very true Louis. To protect their own incomes and positions of power the politicians are basing their judgment more on the ill informed opinions of the majority rather than the informed expert minority.

If my car broke down I'm sure there would be at least ten guys in my street with opinions on how to fix it, but only one of them is a mechanic

 

[nmrocks]

So the Gov't has once again said we are too stupid to understand and they are not scared of us because we're too lazy to do anything about it.

 

[Njja]

So the Gov't has once again said we are too stupid to understand and they are not scared of us because we're too lazy to do anything about it.

Worst thing ever done to our country in my lifetime.

We have now passed the 10 Trillion Dollar Mark with our national debt.

As far as no consumer debt being available.....I was just notified my credit

limits were increased.

 

[nmrocks]

Worst thing ever done to our country in my lifetime.

We have now passed the 10 Trillion Dollar Mark with our national debt.

As far as no consumer debt being available.....I was just notified my credit

limits were increased.

The only ray of hope for this state is 2 of the 3 reps. voted against in the house. Both our senators voted for and Dominici is retiring. I will vote to oust ALL incumbents but unfortunately New mexicans are for the most part Lazy and Stupid, thats why we're at the bottom of nearly every measuring stick in the country and continue to re-elect the same losers that keep us there.
Ray

 

[Gideon]

Is there truly a way out of this? We can protest and we can vote for another cadidate but the greed, corruption and stupidity always seem to come back.

Precious few are interested in what they can see past than their own nose.

 

[nmrocks]

Is there truly a way out of this? We can protest and we can vote for another cadidate but the greed, corruption and stupidity always seem to come back.

Precious few are interested in what they can see past than their own nose.

Gideon,
There is only one way to get there attention, thats to throw these long term serving congressmen out. Unfortunately most aren't running this year and most americans just don't care.
Ray

 

[theBaron]

...and most americans just don't care...(

Something to consider is to look in your home state for organizations that work towards getting term limits imposed, and that work for citizens' ballot initiatives, to get important or controversial issues brought out into the open and voted on, rather than allowing entrenched interests in our state capitals (both in the legislatures and in the lobbying groups) pass what they want for their own interests.

Relative to that point, I'll include this link to an essay published at TownHall today:

http://townhall.com/columnists/PaulJacob/2008/10/05/this_november’s_top_10_initiatives

You might find it interesting to learn that in some states, the voters do have a more active role to play than merely to choose one from column A, one from column B every couple of years.

The danger or disadvantage of our republic, if I may call it a danger or disadvantage, is that is does require active effort to keep it running, more effort than we usually want to exert.

Prost!
Brad

 

[Spitfrnd]

Gideon,
There is only one way to get there attention, thats to throw these long term serving congressmen out. Unfortunately most aren't running this year and most americans just don't care.
Ray

I assume you mean the Senators since all Congressman run every two years. Of course that means that numerically, most members of Congress are up for re-election every two years. It does take two houses the the House leadership was way out in front on the handouts on this one.

 

[Louis Badolato]

You could always do what I do - vote against the incumbent every time anyone seeks re-election. For my money, there is nothing worse than a career politician. They make lawyers, insurance adjusters and used car salesmen look like saints

 

[Spitfrnd]

.... For my money, there is nothing worse than a career politician. They make lawyers, insurance adjusters and used car salesmen look like saints

Well I agree, except for the saints part. Afterall a good number are also lawyers.

 

[Louis Badolato]

Well I agree, except for the saints part. Afterall a good number are also lawyers.

A double whammy!!!

 

[nmrocks]

You could always do what I do - vote against the incumbent every time anyone seeks re-election. For my money, there is nothing worse than a career politician. They make lawyers, insurance adjusters and used car salesmen look like saints

We are in agreement here Louis, It will take a massive tide of losses to these deeply entrenched types to see a real change in how these power brokers view and treat the American public.
Ray
PS GOOD THING WE GOT THAT BAILOUT PACKAGE!!! WHAT B.S.!!

 

[damian]

We are in agreement here Louis, It will take a massive tide of losses to these deeply entrenched types to see a real change in how these power brokers view and treat the American public.
Ray
PS GOOD THING WE GOT THAT BAILOUT PACKAGE!!! WHAT B.S.!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7655178.stm

Thought you guys might like this story

 

[Gideon]

I love it:

When all else fails and congress wants to pretend they're on our side, then send Waxman after "the bad guys". No knock against Waxman but c'mon... And, what will this result in? Why don't they haul citizens who made the dumb mistake of buying something they couldn't afford along with the realtor who "convinced" them it was a great idea. I would pay to watch that - oh wait, I am.

 

[gk5717]

Speaking of Waxman, and I know nothing about him at all, except he is one scarey looking dude! How can anyone so ugly be elected?
That's why I'm voteing for Sarah Palin!
Gary