Financial Meltdown (4 Viewers)

[Njja]

This is all happening way too quickly in my opinion and There should be serious pain attached to any decision that resolves this issue. right now we're buying into this supposedly "pain free" solution??

You certainly are correct. This is not something that should be done quickly.

The problem is we are asking the very people that caused the problem to fix

it.

I would feel better if they consulted with Warren Buffett, Donald Trump, and

other successful men and fired the idiots that didn't see this coming.

We certainly don't expect the Firehouse to burn to the ground.

I know some people don't like Trump, but he knows how to make money. I

would feel much better if people like Buffett & Trump said here is what we

need to do, and we are going to Make Money.

 

[Njja]

Neither should any other investor. We are all responsible for our own financial decisions. I know how boards operate, I know what information they have and I know who really runs companies. I am quite content with my approach to investing, it has worked well for me so far in good markets and bad over 35 years. I do not have or never did have any investment in any of these mortgage dependent companies for example

I'm sure you are highly successful, your lack of concern with the leadership

of your holdings is a unique way to invest.

I knew a man once that won the lottery.....it worked for him.

 

[Njja]

This is getting strange the market is up 239.

Morgan Stanley is 27 up 2+

Goldman Sachs is 135 up 2+

AIG is 3.50 up .25

I don't see panic.......looks like any other day on the street.

Usually the market overreacts to any unique situations.

Could this all be a ploy to get our minds off the election?

 

[Combat]

This is getting strange the market is up 239.

Morgan Stanley is 27 up 2+

Goldman Sachs is 135 up 2+

AIG is 3.50 up .25

I don't see panic.......looks like any other day on the street.

Usually the market overreacts to any unique situations.

Could this all be a ploy to get our minds off the election?

That is the way of the market. BTW: they just announced they have reached an agreement on the bailout package. So expect a big jump in the market and then it will gradually fall back as the details are announced.

 

[Gideon]

I am very confident that our govt has come up with a plan so quickly. Just in time to go home on Friday, just in time to give the market a boost for tomorrows debate.

I am also sure that a great deal of time and care and concern was "given" to average citizens. A full two hour negotiating session I am sure was enough to iron out those tight little details.

Amazing. Can't wait to hear the details of our fleecing. I am so pissed off.

 

[Njja]

I am very confident that our govt has come up with a plan so quickly. Just in time to go home on Friday, just in time to give the market a boost for tomorrows debate.

I am also sure that a great deal of time and care and concern was "given" to average citizens. A full two hour negotiating session I am sure was enough to iron out those tight little details.

Amazing. Can't wait to hear the details of our fleecing. I am so pissed off.

Gideon:

How true......they wouldn't want to miss their break!

I would feel better if they said any profits from this bailout (we should expect

a return) would be used to refund (or pay back) Social Security. At least then

we could feel like they are a little interested in our well being.

No such luck!

Just....hey lets knock this out its almost the weekend!

I suggest we remember this next time we vote!

Incumbent = NO!

 

[theBaron]

This is all happening way too quickly in my opinion and There should be serious pain attached to any decision that resolves this issue. right now we're buying into this supposedly "pain free" solution?? If this does not cost a lot of people alot right now I guarentee this will not fix this problem and only make it worse. There should be serious, painful sacrifice made or nothing will be learned. McCain says this will cost each and every household $10,000 and I'll bet it's double that, but you won't see that when they sign the bill before smiling faces and the big Photo Op.

That's a very good point, I think either Stossel or Sowell was making a similar point. Under true free market conditions, the negative consequences should prevent people from making these bad decisions, or at least, reduce their occurrence to a minimum. What's happening is that the people who were in positions to make decisions, at all levels, will learn nothing, or learn the wrong message, that they can continue to make bad decisions and not pay the consequences.

 

[Gideon]

I have to stop reading the updates - they just make me fume even more.

And we just gave a $25B loan to auto makers who got billions under Clinton to start making hybrids. Instead they made SUV's and are clamoring to get more money so they can compete with whats coming out of Japan. Jerks.

Telecom companies got billions to lace up the country with fiber optics replacing copper. They did a little and stopped, now want more to continue with their fiber projects.

I want my **** money back. All of it.

So, this $700B bailout will hold the crash off for another week, month or year - roll the ball down the field. So when the crash comes, we owe $700B more than we do today. Idiot logic.

Why not secure that money, put it aside and allow the crash? At least that money could be used for a WPA style project to re-invest in our infrastructure and new technologies. Spending this money now will severly stunt us moving forward.

 

[Canadian Samurai]

CEO's as a group are getting scapegoated, now, too, because that's how the media and the public mind work.

A couple of months ago, when housing prices fell and adjustable mortgages slid into trouble, the bugaboo was "predatory lenders".

When oil prices went up, it was "speculators".



And in the hue and cry, Congress' role in all of this, going back to 1977, is conveniently forgotten.

But you have no problem scapegoating the government? Likewise I think saying "Green is the new Red" is "Demonization worthy of a Ministry of Propaganda, and certainly not conducive to reasoned debate or discussion of the issue". Please stop with the double standards.

Let's just admit that everyone in power, both private and public, is to blame for this problem, and we'll call it a day.

 

[nmrocks]

When I was a child I thought all the people in washington were the best and

brightest.

When I became a man I saw they were imperfect and often inadequate.

Now as a "senior" they have become doltish and dumb.

On a lighter note I offer this explination why Elephants fear Mice!

NJJA,
Of course you know that that elephant is a mouse designed by Gov't?

Now I understand there's no deal which is good. Gideons point about gov't intervention during the great stock market crash should be heeded. between that and Roosevelt's welfare policies, the only thing that ended the great depression was the war. Come on! you have a fire and so you throw more of the very thing that is burning on it to try to extiguish it?? I'm have great trepidation either way, but this bailout as was stated before would only delay and make worse the day of reckoning.

 

[Spitfrnd]

I'm sure you are highly successful, your lack of concern with the leadership

of your holdings is a unique way to invest.

I knew a man once that won the lottery.....it worked for him.

I am afraid if that is what you take away from my observations, you have a different (but unfortunately not unique) way of understanding our language

 

[Spitfrnd]

But you have no problem scapegoating the government? Likewise I think saying "Green is the new Red" is "Demonization worthy of a Ministry of Propaganda, and certainly not conducive to reasoned debate or discussion of the issue". Please stop with the double standards.

Let's just admit that everyone in power, both private and public, is to blame for this problem, and we'll call it a day.

I don't admit any thing of the kind as I have noted before in this thread. I must say I wish I had come up with the "green/red" line though. It may not be conducive to reasoned debate but then neither is the "in denial" slogan; any more than was "an inconvenient truth". I think we can agree we have a different perspective on a number of issues.

 

[theBaron]

But you have no problem scapegoating the government? Likewise I think saying "Green is the new Red" is "Demonization worthy of a Ministry of Propaganda, and certainly not conducive to reasoned debate or discussion of the issue". Please stop with the double standards.

Let's just admit that everyone in power, both private and public, is to blame for this problem, and we'll call it a day.

I can't claim credit for "green is the new red", but is certainly apt. The environmental movement certainly contain those who would like to achieve their goals through the same kind of large government solutions that Socialists espouse.

My point about the shrill shrieking in the media about CEOs is that they paint them all with the same brush, and turn them into caricatures. Certainly not every chairman of every corporation is Rich Uncle Moneybags from the Monopoly game, nor some sort of Gordon Gekko clone, coldly buying and selling companies and trading stocks, without a thought for the people involved.

It has yet to be proven that anyone anywhere has broken any of our laws. If we are angry because of someone's behavior, but that behavior hasn't broken any laws, then we need to reform the law.

At this point, the majority of information indicates that it was ill-considered, ill-advised, feel-good legislation, promoted primarily by those on the left of the political spectrum in this country, that created the conditions that led to this situation. Though, there are growing indications of laxness at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, though those organizations were loosed from tighter accounting restrictions by the legislation previously mentioned. There may yet prove to be actual crimes committed there. But again, that doesn't mean every person who leads a company is evil. But that's what the American mainstream media likes to portrat.

 

[Combat]

How about this piece of wisdom to restore confidence?

"If money isn't loosened up, this sucker could go down," Bush said, according to one person in the room.

 

[Njja]

Absolutely true. As I keep noting, the root cause was the desire by our elected government to expand housing market penetration, which in turn could not be achieved without lowering borrowing standards.

Yes, a Fancy way of saying people were put into homes they could not afford.

We need to lower our language to the lowest common denominator so items cannot be hidden in prose.

Those responsible should be removed from office.

Time to contact your senators as I have done it only takes a moment of your
time.

As it stands there is a plan to put 20% of any Bailout profits into "Project
Acorn" another government "Freebee" program under investigation for:

1. Misuse of Public Funds.
2. Voter Fraud.
3. Embezzlement.......(always nice).....lets give them more to STEAL!

I have also written to Reid & Pelosi to let them know we are watching.

It is not enough to just put these people in power, we need to remind them

that we are watching!

 

[Njja]

NJJA,
Of course you know that that elephant is a mouse designed by Gov't?

Now I understand there's no deal which is good.

HA.......US Govt mouse, good point.

There is one solution to the problem, Loan, not grant!

Loan the money, with assets for collateral, a grass roots businessman could

handle this matter with little trouble....except the size of it.

1. Buy the loans $.40 on the dollar, inspect properties of those in default,

work out payment plan (they could afford) to give them 6 months to MOVE

OUT! House will be left in inspected condition or your next home will be JAIL!

2. Home resold at fair market price TO PERSON THAT CAN AFFORD IT even if

new price is only 40% of old mortgage......WE HAVE OUR MONEY BACK!

3. Any profits from interest on loan, 50% goes into actual Social Security Fund rest goes into pool to offset any losses we might suffer on some
properties.

4. Plan must be transparent.

Simple plan.......problem little room for GRAFT, PORK, AND FRAUD.

 

[Njja]

I am afraid if that is what you take away from my observations, you have a different (but unfortunately not unique) way of understanding our language

Language should be straight forward, with little to figue out.

Part of the reason we are in this mess, is a lack of straight talk.

Just take a look at any document you receive from a credit card company!

It would take you 6 months with a legal dictionary just to get through it.

Bad idea.

 

[Njja]

How about this piece of wisdom to restore confidence?

"If money isn't loosened up, this sucker could go down," Bush said, according to one person in the room.

Perhaps...........he was lost.

 

[Njja]

Bottom line, if you don't express your views directly to your Senators

who is going to advise them?

Only the special interest groups.

The people must have their voices heard!

This means you!

http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

 

[jrsteel]

Absolutely true. As I keep noting, the root cause was the desire by our elected government to expand housing market penetration, which in turn could not be achieved without lowering borrowing standards.

Yes, a Fancy way of saying people were put into homes they could not afford.

We need to lower our language to the lowest common denominator so items cannot be hidden in prose.

Those responsible should be removed from office.

Time to contact your senators as I have done it only takes a moment of your
time.

As it stands there is a plan to put 20% of any Bailout profits into "Project
Acorn" another government "Freebee" program under investigation for:

1. Misuse of Public Funds.
2. Voter Fraud.
3. Embezzlement.......(always nice).....lets give them more to STEAL!

I have also written to Reid & Pelosi to let them know we are watching.

It is not enough to just put these people in power, we need to remind them

that we are watching!

There's not supposed to be poltical talk on this forum. All you and others have been spouting is Rush Limbaugh/Hannity nonsense. So this was all caused by the Democrats in congress? Corporate greed had nothing to do with it right? You Limbaugh/Hannity etc. devotees are a scary bunch.
If this country was truly in a time of crisis and we all had to come together like in WW2, I think we'd be doomed. You right wingers are always concerned about taxes. But it's OK if we throw a trillion dollars of tax money at Iraq. Probably the dumbest move this country ever made.