first legion a success? (2 Viewers)

[petebuster1]

Hi everyone new to the forum but not to collecting from the UK .I'm receiving my first first legion tommorow to compare, i must admit they look good,i'm not sure how successful they will be? K&C are very well establised and i've noticed collectors showcase figures seem to still be readily available even with their limited numbers,we will see.I think if they brought the price down a little say £20 a figure instead of £28 ($35) roughly they would be a great success, if i could get 5 for £100 instead of 3,personally it would make a big difference to my buying potential as i'd probably swap from K&C in the main.Especially in the current climate
In the long run can they compete with such a well establised company like K&C if they cant beat them in the price?

 

[Spitfrnd]

Hi everyone new to the forum but not to collecting from the UK .I'm receiving my first first legion tommorow to compare, i must admit they look good,i'm not sure how successful they will be? K&C are very well establised and i've noticed collectors showcase figures seem to still be readily available even with their limited numbers,we will see.I think if they brought the price down a little say £20 a figure instead of £28 ($35) roughly they would be a great success, if i could get 5 for £100 instead of 3,personally it would make a big difference to my buying potential as i'd probably swap from K&C in the main.Especially in the current climate
In the long run can they compete with such a well establised company like K&C if they cant beat them in the price?

Welcome to the forums PB. I think the simple answer is that they can be compete at a higher price by being what they are, better. Of course it would be nice if they were the same price as K&C and CS but I have several of all three and there really is no comparison to me. Essentially, they are offering a different product. The sculpting and painting of the 1st Legion figures is more like connoisseur grade than like the other two; and their poses are more interesting and accurate for the most part. The K&C figures are nice but they are rather bulky and have a number of out of scale painting and casting issues, such as hands, rifles and braid and the faces are definitely more toy soldier looking. The CS figures have interesting poses but have some of the same issues and several of their faces are relatively scary. I think you will find that the question is not how can they compete but rather how quickly they can expand.

 

[Le' Murat]

Welcome to the forums PB. I think the simple answer is that they can be compete at a higher price by being what they are, better. Of course it would be nice if they were the same price as K&C and CS but I have several of all three and there really is no comparison to me. Essentially, they are offering a different product. The sculpting and painting of the 1st Legion figures is more like connoisseur grade than like the other two; and their poses are more interesting and accurate for the most part. The K&C figures are nice but they are rather bulky and have a number of out of scale painting and casting issues, such as hands, rifles and braid and the faces are definitely more toy soldier looking. The CS figures have interesting poses but have some of the same issues and several of their faces are relatively scary. I think you will find that the question is not how can they compete but rather how quickly they can expand.

I saw my first Legion figures the other day, I must say they are very nice. Unfortunately I could not bring myself to buy them.

Two things: they are very expensive and the more I looked at them the more they seemed to be the very same figure just posed differently. I am familiar with the " Dolly " style of sculpting, and these are certainly made that way.

The painting however was very good however. But at $40.00 plus a figure I think its just too much for me. But they will find a market for themselves Im sure.

 

[Spitfrnd]

I saw my first Legion figures the other day, I must say they are very nice. Unfortunately I could not bring myself to buy them.

Two things: they are very expensive and the more I looked at them the more they seemed to be the very same figure just posed differently. I am familiar with the " Dolly " style of sculpting, and these are certainly made that way.
.....

Interesting observation but I don't see how you can get there? When you look at these, especially in person, they are very definitely not the same figure (in different poses) and not "dolly" style.
http://www.firstlegionltd.com/images/french line infantry.jpg
Any more than these are
http://www.firstlegionltd.com/images/squarefinal.jpg
There is certainly a similarity in facial style but the same can be said of K&C and Britain. The CS faces are more varied than any of these but that is not always a good thing unfortunately. I guess perceptions can vary almost as much as the figures themselves.

 

[King's Man]

First Legion is getting more then enough of my money to be a success.

King's Man

 

[Spitfrnd]

First Legion is getting more then enough of my money to be a success.

King's Man

Well now that you mention it, they are getting a fair chunk of mine as well.

 

[petebuster1]

well hopefully my 1st first legion will arrive today and i've no doubt i wont be disappointed and as a Napoleonic era collector these will only cause me a financial problem I tend to go for the best figures available no matter who the manufacturer is but you have to remember there are collectors who wont be so flexible and thats why i question whether they will be a success or not.I have known others trying to do the same with equally or better quality figures that started off well but only really managed to keep a small band of collectors. I also think the subject matter can also come into effect and the napoleonic era has already been well covered.
Its only in the last year or so K&C have been in my collection simply because i didnt think they were that good but the more recent figures are much improved and of excellent quality.
After saying all that i wish them well and am sure i will be adding a few or many to my collection, will let you know what i think when the first arrives.
The other thing K&C do better than anyone is hold and increase their value,corgi,hobbymaster etc etc cant do that, something i know makes K&C so collectable even producing figures in the amount they do,their marketing is second to none.

 

[marco55]

What is dolly style?
Mark

 

[amhuff1]

What is dolly style?
Mark

Isn't there a Dolly Land in Nashville?

 

[Spitfrnd]

What is dolly style?
Mark

As I understand he means faces resembling dolls (big round eyes, round face, mopish hair, chubby cheeks generally with dimples or such that are all the same ; I have seen such figures but I just don't think it applies here.

 

[FirstLegion]

As I understand he means faces resembling dolls (big round eyes, round face, mopish hair, chubby cheeks generally with dimples or such that are all the same ; I have seen such figures but I just don't think it applies here.

I'm not sure exactly what "dolly" style means either, but my assumption was that he meant interchangeable parts (i.e. one body, for example, with 2 different heads and arm poses). We do a bit of this with some of our broader releases like French Line Infantry and a few of the British Guards figures to provide the maximum flexibility and variety of poses. This is certainly the first time I've heard of our poses being called whatever it was they were called earlier in this thread (too repetitive or something - not even worth my looking up to address). I feel that we provide the absolute maximum pose variety within our release target (i.e. French Advancing, British Square etc..) by far of any MFR.

I actually have quite a bit to say on this thread as a whole but have decided to leave it alone...

M

 

[King's Man]

One of the main reasons I like 1st legion is that it does uses interchangeable parts to make variations of the same pose. This allows multiples of the same pose to be displayed without having the cookie-cutter look. I wish they did it more; I would like to have a choice of several heads for each pose.

Even when they use the same body to produce another type of figure should as grenadier from the same body used for the fusilier. I say great all the more interesting to show some grenadiers march in step alongside the fusiliers.

King’s Man

 

[SteveDavid]

Matt, I wanted to intervene as well, but I think it is best to leave it as it is.

Comments that have been made here are highly ridiculous, to say the least. People with a bit of objectivity [so not those sitting in D.C.] will have to admit that the figures you are offering are different in all aspects: sculpting, variety of the poses, painting (whithin the limits of the prices you are offering them)!.

I respect everybody's offerings and also the tastes of the customers/fanatics of various brands, but I think that a bit of objectivity should still remain. When I read that the new JJD Jacobite figures are the best with regards to the sculpting, the painting etc I have to ask the question if it is them or me? I got the Scottish flagbearer of the series. Nicely done, without a doubt, but his face looks EXACTLY like the faces of the other 50 sets that JJD is offering. Still people say it is the best series out there.

A miniature will always be a reduced representation of a life-sized object - so by definition not 100%. One can always find this and that to critize. But having to read comments about your figures like those above, is just not worth it...actually why did I bother putting things straight??

 

[petebuster1]

Well it arrived today, and i have to say very impressed compared to a similar figure of K&C there are several things. The overall scale is better(K&C need to get the arms,hands and rifles in scale with the rest of the figure), the painting is better,the bases are better,and the overall realism is better so will be collecting these rather than K&C as i make dioramas for my figures and obviously the more realistic the better and i have to take back my previous statement on the price,these are worth the little extra.Also if these aren't a success then nothing will be even the most loyal to a particular manufacturer should have a go at these, they are now imo the best on the market.

 

[FirstLegion]

Matt, I wanted to intervene as well, but I think it is best to leave it as it is.

Comments that have been made here are highly ridiculous, to say the least. People with a bit of objectivity [so not those sitting in D.C.] will have to admit that the figures you are offering are different in all aspects: sculpting, variety of the poses, painting (whithin the limits of the prices you are offering them)!.

I respect everybody's offerings and also the tastes of the customers/fanatics of various brands, but I think that a bit of objectivity should still remain. When I read that the new JJD Jacobite figures are the best with regards to the sculpting, the painting etc I have to ask the question if it is them or me? I got the Scottish flagbearer of the series. Nicely done, without a doubt, but his face looks EXACTLY like the faces of the other 50 sets that JJD is offering. Still people say it is the best series out there.

A miniature will always be a reduced representation of a life-sized object - so by definition not 100%. One can always find this and that to critize. But having to read comments about your figures like those above, is just not worth it...actually why did I bother putting things straight??

Thanks Steve. You can't please everyone and this is a subjective hobby where the only person's opinion that matters is he who holds the wallet at that moment, so everyone is entitled to their point of view. But hey, like us our hate us, at least we make "Wavy Flags."

 

[FirstLegion]

Well it arrived today, and i have to say very impressed compared to a similar figure of K&C there are several things. The overall scale is better(K&C need to get the arms,hands and rifles in scale with the rest of the figure), the painting is better,the bases are better,and the overall realism is better so will be collecting these rather than K&C as i make dioramas for my figures and obviously the more realistic the better and i have to take back my previous statement on the price,these are worth the little extra.Also if these aren't a success then nothing will be even the most loyal to a particular manufacturer should have a go at these, they are now imo the best on the market.

Thanks Pete for your very kind words on our figures. I find that your reaction is very similar to what we experience with a lot of first time customers. They are initially hesitant/skeptical in that we're a new company and our prices are a bit higher than the competition. Then they get some of our figures in their hands and realize why they're a bit more expensive, though still very reasonably priced for what you're getting. So to answer your quesion as to whether or not we'll be a success, I really don't know yet, as it's so early in the process for us. But if everyone who buys our figures has the same reaction that you just had, and most do, I think we'll do ok. We may never be K&C as that's a ridiculously tall mountain to climb and even as a competitor I fully respect and admire both the work that they do and how they go about it (ultra-polished, ultra-professional), but we'll continue making our figures and hopefully more and more folks will try us out and we'll see how things blossom from there.

I'm glad you're pleased with the figures. It really makes it all worthwhile when people appreciate what we're trying to do here, which is to make the best figures that we possibly can at a price that's still affordable to a mass market.

Regards,

Matt
First Legion Ltd

 

[aujj65]

What is dolly style?
Mark

I may be wrong but, I think a "dolly" or armature means a basic sculpture which acts as the skeleton for the figure, giving you something to build on, then used to produce other figures by varying the positons of the limbs, head and equipment etc?

A bit rude though!

Jeff

 

[Capitolron]

Matt, I wanted to intervene as well, but I think it is best to leave it as it is.

Comments that have been made here are highly ridiculous, to say the least. People with a bit of objectivity [so not those sitting in D.C.] will have to admit that the figures you are offering are different in all aspects: sculpting, variety of the poses, painting (whithin the limits of the prices you are offering them)!.

I respect everybody's offerings and also the tastes of the customers/fanatics of various brands, but I think that a bit of objectivity should still remain. When I read that the new JJD Jacobite figures are the best with regards to the sculpting, the painting etc I have to ask the question if it is them or me? I got the Scottish flagbearer of the series. Nicely done, without a doubt, but his face looks EXACTLY like the faces of the other 50 sets that JJD is offering. Still people say it is the best series out there.

A miniature will always be a reduced representation of a life-sized object - so by definition not 100%. One can always find this and that to critize. But having to read comments about your figures like those above, is just not worth it...actually why did I bother putting things straight??

SteveDavid

I hope your comments that I have highlighted are a general back-handed slap at the US Congress "on objectivity" and not directed towards me ?(especially since I am the only forum member in DC).

I have been a big fan of First Legion and have said so many times - as well as having a few in my collection.

I agree that First Legion comes at this hobby from a different level. Their figures are more museum quality and very detailed. What type of artwork you should expect a to pay a little more - and rightfully so !

No question great figures and a wonderful choice for Toy Soldier Collectors - IMHO.

Ron

 

[thebritfarmer]

I may be wrong but, I think a "dolly" or armature means a basic sculpture which acts as the skeleton for the figure, giving you something to build on, then used to produce other figures by varying the positons of the limbs, head and equipment etc?

A bit rude though!

Jeff

I do believe your are right Jeff, there was a guy on here showing us how he cast his figures in that style. Wonder were he got to?

 

[petebuster1]

Thanks Pete for your very kind words on our figures. I find that your reaction is very similar to what we experience with a lot of first time customers. They are initially hesitant/skeptical in that we're a new company and our prices are a bit higher than the competition. Then they get some of our figures in their hands and realize why they're a bit more expensive, though still very reasonably priced for what you're getting. So to answer your quesion as to whether or not we'll be a success, I really don't know yet, as it's so early in the process for us. But if everyone who buys our figures has the same reaction that you just had, and most do, I think we'll do ok. We may never be K&C as that's a ridiculously tall mountain to climb and even as a competitor I fully respect and admire both the work that they do and how they go about it (ultra-polished, ultra-professional), but we'll continue making our figures and hopefully more and more folks will try us out and we'll see how things blossom from there.

I'm glad you're pleased with the figures. It really makes it all worthwhile when people appreciate what we're trying to do here, which is to make the best figures that we possibly can at a price that's still affordable to a mass market.

Regards,

Matt
First Legion Ltd

No problems i really was impressed, museum quality without a shadow,i wont be giving up on K&C but FL will be my main figures.As i say for dioramas these are the peices that will suit brilliantly. You've actually made things very difficult i have 3 dioramas planned with K&C figures but now have to re-think and plan from scratch if you bring scots greys out anytime soon you'll muck everything up