The Military Workshop
1st Lieutenant
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2005
- Messages
- 4,778
Dear Mitch,
You mention me picking on your posts rather than on something by Jeff. Regarding any comments by Jeff it would appear something has been moderated and I did not see that post. It would appear that post revived the thread and your post was a response to a deleted Jeff post.
However the number of posts Jeff has made has been significantly less than yourself regarding this matter. It is one thing to say you are disappointed on behalf of TM Terrain and express support for them as others have also done. However your posts have another aspect and that is constantly having a go at John Jenkins. As I indicated you are basing your comments on the information from one side of the story.
To summarise your view:
On 23 AUG in response to Brad you wrote :
"Wonder where the idle speculation is???? We know TMT sold a lot of his products. we know they did well to promote JJD from what it was to what it is now.
We know that a new dealer in the UK will distribute JJD. These are facts. I asked what a new dealer could do better??
So this is a rather valid question and not idle speculation from those also as quick to side with JJD. Obviously, its created more interest and discussion in the UK than it has
in the US but, thats down to the fact that most of us know the lads at TMT".
(My comment here : You only know the "facts" that TM Terrain has told you. Clearly you do not appreciate or accept as valid that JJ might think somebody else might do better. You have no idea what JJ might regard as good promotion or good sales by an exclusive dealer with the whole UK market to themselves and with a range that is getting more valuable in terms of $ value of releases per month. As I suggest below the promotion of JJ items was probably getting less asit took on more ranges).
Please see below my comments about how a new "exclusive" dealer might be better for JJ.
More recently on 3 SEP you expanded your "opinion" to represent much more than just your thoughts by saying this :
"Many people who have contacted me and the lads at TM including some of the big dealers also agree and, you are right people are making their own minds up about who is right who is wrong and, making decisions on a host of other things".
So you expand and support your opinions by adding nameless "many people" and "big dealers". I have no idea what you mean by "making decisions on a host of other things".
In the same post you made the extraordinary comment that : "Its also worth noting that its an aspurtion that is also incredulous that because JJ has not said anything that he holds some pertinant facts that would make this all very different". By that I take it you mean that whatever facts JJ might have are not relevant to your version of events. Well I guess that makes you the Detective, Prosecutor, Judge and Jury. However from my perspective
what I see is a case of "sour grapes" which you are eager to keep repeating.
You made a comment about hoping that certain people don't have good mates in Australia and the same not happening to me (as a dealer). By this I take it that that the new JJ dealer in the UK are mates of JJ. Please note I am not an exclusive JJ dealer in Oz and as far as I know TM was the only one.
Heres how I see it and I may be wrong. TM Terrain started off as a diorama maker. Their first figure range was Jenkins and this was an exclusive arrangement (ie. only them in the UK). As time went on they added FL (one of 5 listed UK dealers) and CS (one of 3 dealers) and more recently Britains (one of many many dealers). I note TM commented that JJ was half their figure sales which is understandable as they were the only dealer in the UK and were in a unique situation.
I may be wrong but they do not appear to have a shop premises. From their web page they attend four major shows (3 London and 1 Birmingham) a year but I also note their web page comment "The ranges we carry are growing all the time so it gets harder to bring everything down to a show". I have never been to a UK show but have set up at many in Oz. Table space is valuable as is space in the vehicle to get there. I am guessing that as Terrain added more figure ranges to their tables the prominence of JJ products got less (at a time it should be increasing).
For whatever reason JJ decided to go with a dealer that will only handle his products. So now JJ has a dealer that :
a) are mates (if I read Mitch's comment correctly).
b) has only one brand to sell (instead of 5)
c) can attend at least the same shows as TM did.
d) when they set up a display at a show it is all JJ and that is all they are trying to sell.
e) has an exclusive UK web page devoted to JJ product.
Another point I have noted as a dealer is that JJ has expanded his ranges to include Spanish Civil War and WWI Aircraft and these have vehicles and aircraft that take up a lot of space compared to just figure series. In addition the value of sales should be going up due to the higher value tanks and aircraft.
Incidentally I looked at the new UK page and I must say those prices are very good considering the VAT.
We are all aware JJ attends some London shows. I am guessing that in his first London show with TM it would have been his figures and TM diorama items. As time has progressed 3 other figure brands have joined the tables. So at any show his exclusive dealer would have been spending less effort, compared to the early days, promoting his product. If I was JJ flying from HK to UK for a show I would much rather be appearing at the tables of a dealer only handling my product. Seems common sense.
As I have said TM would not have been happy with losing the brand. I think it is not an unreasonable assumption that a totally exclusive dealer onlyhandling JJ should have a reasonable prospect of improving sales as they will not have the distraction
of dealing with other products. The exclusive arrangement in the UK should work well as the country is relatively small compared to say USA, Canada, Europe and Oz (I once travelled 4,000 by van to go to a show !!).
You mentioned JJ buying me a lunch becuase of my comments and my self defence of manufacturers. As we know JJ is not a member of this forum and even if he was I doubt he would be commenting in this thread. As many have pointed out this should have been a matter between JJ and TM. One would almost think by your comments you had shares in TM but as I do not believe that I just think you are "stirring the pot" Try to underrstand
I am not picking on you but merely expressing a different view point as you having been making numerous comments against somebody we know will not come on to respond.
Anyway just my thoughts.
Regards
Brett
PS Regarding your Shyguy comment I must have missed the photo of his 40 + aircraft collection although the sub was impressive. However my "hounding" (to use your word - mine would be posts) was nothing to do with the size of his collection but everything to do with the fact that as a new forum members his first action was to start 4 new threads about his ME 262 problem. If you look back at the thread you will see even you did not support his 262 complaint.
My apologies for continuing this thread. If it was a K&C thread or in another more popular area it would quickly fade away and I would not have bothered with this post. However it is quite apparent that this thread will remain on the front page of the TM section for a couple of years so I thought I would offer an opinion to balance the views expressed.
You mention me picking on your posts rather than on something by Jeff. Regarding any comments by Jeff it would appear something has been moderated and I did not see that post. It would appear that post revived the thread and your post was a response to a deleted Jeff post.
However the number of posts Jeff has made has been significantly less than yourself regarding this matter. It is one thing to say you are disappointed on behalf of TM Terrain and express support for them as others have also done. However your posts have another aspect and that is constantly having a go at John Jenkins. As I indicated you are basing your comments on the information from one side of the story.
To summarise your view:
On 23 AUG in response to Brad you wrote :
"Wonder where the idle speculation is???? We know TMT sold a lot of his products. we know they did well to promote JJD from what it was to what it is now.
We know that a new dealer in the UK will distribute JJD. These are facts. I asked what a new dealer could do better??
So this is a rather valid question and not idle speculation from those also as quick to side with JJD. Obviously, its created more interest and discussion in the UK than it has
in the US but, thats down to the fact that most of us know the lads at TMT".
(My comment here : You only know the "facts" that TM Terrain has told you. Clearly you do not appreciate or accept as valid that JJ might think somebody else might do better. You have no idea what JJ might regard as good promotion or good sales by an exclusive dealer with the whole UK market to themselves and with a range that is getting more valuable in terms of $ value of releases per month. As I suggest below the promotion of JJ items was probably getting less asit took on more ranges).
Please see below my comments about how a new "exclusive" dealer might be better for JJ.
More recently on 3 SEP you expanded your "opinion" to represent much more than just your thoughts by saying this :
"Many people who have contacted me and the lads at TM including some of the big dealers also agree and, you are right people are making their own minds up about who is right who is wrong and, making decisions on a host of other things".
So you expand and support your opinions by adding nameless "many people" and "big dealers". I have no idea what you mean by "making decisions on a host of other things".
In the same post you made the extraordinary comment that : "Its also worth noting that its an aspurtion that is also incredulous that because JJ has not said anything that he holds some pertinant facts that would make this all very different". By that I take it you mean that whatever facts JJ might have are not relevant to your version of events. Well I guess that makes you the Detective, Prosecutor, Judge and Jury. However from my perspective
what I see is a case of "sour grapes" which you are eager to keep repeating.
You made a comment about hoping that certain people don't have good mates in Australia and the same not happening to me (as a dealer). By this I take it that that the new JJ dealer in the UK are mates of JJ. Please note I am not an exclusive JJ dealer in Oz and as far as I know TM was the only one.
Heres how I see it and I may be wrong. TM Terrain started off as a diorama maker. Their first figure range was Jenkins and this was an exclusive arrangement (ie. only them in the UK). As time went on they added FL (one of 5 listed UK dealers) and CS (one of 3 dealers) and more recently Britains (one of many many dealers). I note TM commented that JJ was half their figure sales which is understandable as they were the only dealer in the UK and were in a unique situation.
I may be wrong but they do not appear to have a shop premises. From their web page they attend four major shows (3 London and 1 Birmingham) a year but I also note their web page comment "The ranges we carry are growing all the time so it gets harder to bring everything down to a show". I have never been to a UK show but have set up at many in Oz. Table space is valuable as is space in the vehicle to get there. I am guessing that as Terrain added more figure ranges to their tables the prominence of JJ products got less (at a time it should be increasing).
For whatever reason JJ decided to go with a dealer that will only handle his products. So now JJ has a dealer that :
a) are mates (if I read Mitch's comment correctly).
b) has only one brand to sell (instead of 5)
c) can attend at least the same shows as TM did.
d) when they set up a display at a show it is all JJ and that is all they are trying to sell.
e) has an exclusive UK web page devoted to JJ product.
Another point I have noted as a dealer is that JJ has expanded his ranges to include Spanish Civil War and WWI Aircraft and these have vehicles and aircraft that take up a lot of space compared to just figure series. In addition the value of sales should be going up due to the higher value tanks and aircraft.
Incidentally I looked at the new UK page and I must say those prices are very good considering the VAT.
We are all aware JJ attends some London shows. I am guessing that in his first London show with TM it would have been his figures and TM diorama items. As time has progressed 3 other figure brands have joined the tables. So at any show his exclusive dealer would have been spending less effort, compared to the early days, promoting his product. If I was JJ flying from HK to UK for a show I would much rather be appearing at the tables of a dealer only handling my product. Seems common sense.
As I have said TM would not have been happy with losing the brand. I think it is not an unreasonable assumption that a totally exclusive dealer onlyhandling JJ should have a reasonable prospect of improving sales as they will not have the distraction
of dealing with other products. The exclusive arrangement in the UK should work well as the country is relatively small compared to say USA, Canada, Europe and Oz (I once travelled 4,000 by van to go to a show !!).
You mentioned JJ buying me a lunch becuase of my comments and my self defence of manufacturers. As we know JJ is not a member of this forum and even if he was I doubt he would be commenting in this thread. As many have pointed out this should have been a matter between JJ and TM. One would almost think by your comments you had shares in TM but as I do not believe that I just think you are "stirring the pot" Try to underrstand
I am not picking on you but merely expressing a different view point as you having been making numerous comments against somebody we know will not come on to respond.
Anyway just my thoughts.
Regards
Brett
PS Regarding your Shyguy comment I must have missed the photo of his 40 + aircraft collection although the sub was impressive. However my "hounding" (to use your word - mine would be posts) was nothing to do with the size of his collection but everything to do with the fact that as a new forum members his first action was to start 4 new threads about his ME 262 problem. If you look back at the thread you will see even you did not support his 262 complaint.
My apologies for continuing this thread. If it was a K&C thread or in another more popular area it would quickly fade away and I would not have bothered with this post. However it is quite apparent that this thread will remain on the front page of the TM section for a couple of years so I thought I would offer an opinion to balance the views expressed.
