Get A Grip (1 Viewer)

[GJB22]

Prices seem to rise almost every month, slowly eliminating collectors on limited budgets. Soon the issue of price and quality will disappear. Years ago, you could get four figures for around $80. Now, you get two figures for that price. Andy says the lack of skilled labor and rising cost of said labor dictates the price of his merchandise. Some forum members, along with myself, have suggested moving production to another country. Why can't this be done? I have also wondered why Andy can't create legal contracts with these factories that would bind them to a certain price for a said amount of time. This would eliminate the monthly price increases. Why can't this be done? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the whole point of Andy starting his business in China was because production was cheap. This is no longer the case and China doesn't seem to make good business sense anymore. I know here in the US, the economy has not recovered, and when people have to decided between a tank of gas or one toy soldier, they're going to get the tank of gas. This hobby is not supposed to be stressful, yet that's where it's headed. It's sad, we pay more, and get less. We all have to make choices, and I guess Andy has made his.

Disclaimer: I am a dedicated KC collector and cannot envision myself collecting any other brand. No other company has their style, quality, or vision. This is by no means a hate letter, just a question/concern. I just want some stability. If KC's prices force me out, I will be done with toy soldiers, no other company can fill the void.

 

[marco55]

Here we goooooooooooooooooooo!{eek3}{sm3}
Mark

 

[HistoryfortheAges]

I sympathize with you... I think the manufacturers have heard this point made loud and clear on multiple threads... What they may or can do to alleviate the situation is really up to them as they know more of what they are up against on all sides.

 

[Ruggles]

Brand new guy to the hobby that I am I would add my .02 to this topic.

Been collecting since early June, yes last month. I really have no long term understanding of the industry or event this hobby per say. I guess I can at least claim to be very objective {sm4} But one of my other passions is firearms, handguns in particular. The only type of handguns I am now buying are 1911s. Within the 1911 field there are 1911s that can be purchased for $400 and 1911s that can be purchased for $3500 and up. These 1911s like the toy soldiers are niceties and not necessities.

As you can imagine this can lead to a bit of debate within the 1911 community (and there is indeed a large an active 1911 community online) about prices and recent price increase by some 1911 manufactures. No one likes a price increase but we all realize they are a part of the real world. Yet the debate continues on those forums about the intent and decisions of those manufactures when they do raise prices.

Being pretty active on those forums and brand new here I really see the similarities between the 2 topics. In fact in the last 30 days I have spent enough on toy soliders to get a pretty nice 1911 {sm4}.

I have the same viewpoint on both subjects, I can either pay the asking price or move on to a different offering from a different company. Or of course not buy at all. If I do not want to pay $40 for a K&C figure I can buy a W.B. for $28. Maybe I wanted the K&C more than the W.B. but it is my choice to make if I want price to factor into my choice. The same is true of 1911s. Maybe I want a Wilson Combat 1911 but I am deterred by the $2500 asking price, I get one of the new Ruger 1911s for $700 instead. I wanted the Wilson but let price guide me towards the Ruger. Again my choice. Or I could buy 2 W.B. figures instead of one K&C, or two Rugers instead of 1 Wilson. All choices I need to make.

I do not think any of these companies are trying to price anybody out of the market, they are just trying to maximize profits while keeping there customers happy and in fact to keep them as customers. Not an easy balancing act at all, yet one that almost every company in the world does daily. I have no ideal of the business structure or business cost of K&C but I would guess these price increases are a combination of both the needs of K&C and the desire for them to maximize profits. Time will tell if it was the right choice. I guess Andy knows a wee bit more about running this type of company than I do so I will defer to his wisdom on the subject.

I will say I started collecting K&C but have already branched off into W.B. and John Jenkins because I have reservations about paying $40 for a single piece of K&C in the future. I have also discovered the great used market as well as the older pieces by these companies as a way of stretching my dollar. Had the prices not increased the month I started the hobby (yeah that is pretty much my type of luck) I would not have looked at these different areas of the hobby. I have stumbled into the world of glossy because of this and I think I might be in love..... So in a way the increases made the hobby more enjoyable for me.

I have even started to try and paint my own, the verdict is still out on that {eek3} I will say those folks painting for K&C are artist IMO and deserve the money they get paid. I mean Andy could hire me to paint and you could get figurers for $10 or so but the paint job would be....lets' say questionable. {sm3}

All in all I can understand the concern many have on prices. I agree that stress should not be part of the hobby. But stress is something we are putting on our self in this case IMO. Imagine being new and wanting everything! That is where I am now {sm3} But just like the 1911 field I am just happy to have so many choices to choose from in the toy solider field.

I am excited about this hobby, it is kinda sad to see some folks talking about walking away because of pricing. I hope they stay around and keep this hobby healthy and exciting.

Again I am the newbbie here but I just wanted to share my thoughts. :redface2:

 

[chillywill]

Gentlemen I came to learn about and enjoy a fun hobby! Economics is simple! If you pay they will charge. I collected cards for many years along with comic books and other things and I basically got out because the fun was taken away because of price. Times are tough for many and not so tough for others. Make the choice and voice your opinion but bottom line have fun and keep up the search. This sounds simple but really it is. Granted also gentlemen I am a novice at alot of this so this is just a friendly opinion. (We are surrounded and that simplifys the problem Chesty Puller Korea!)

 

[maddadicus]

Brand new guy to the hobby that I am I would add my .02 to this topic.

Been collecting since early June, yes last month. I really have no long term understanding of the industry or event this hobby per say. I guess I can at least claim to be very objective {sm4} But one of my other passions is firearms, handguns in particular. The only type of handguns I am now buying are 1911s. Within the 1911 field there are 1911s that can be purchased for $400 and 1911s that can be purchased for $3500 and up. These 1911s like the toy soldiers are niceties and not necessities.

As you can imagine this can lead to a bit of debate within the 1911 community (and there is indeed a large an active 1911 community online) about prices and recent price increase by some 1911 manufactures. No one likes a price increase but we all realize they are a part of the real world. Yet the debate continues on those forums about the intent and decisions of those manufactures when they do raise prices.

Being pretty active on those forums and brand new here I really see the similarities between the 2 topics. In fact in the last 30 days I have spent enough on toy soliders to get a pretty nice 1911 {sm4}.

I have the same viewpoint on both subjects, I can either pay the asking price or move on to a different offering from a different company. Or of course not buy at all. If I do not want to pay $40 for a K&C figure I can buy a W.B. for $28. Maybe I wanted the K&C more than the W.B. but it is my choice to make if I want price to factor into my choice. The same is true of 1911s. Maybe I want a Wilson Combat 1911 but I am deterred by the $2500 asking price, I get one of the new Ruger 1911s for $700 instead. I wanted the Wilson but let price guide me towards the Ruger. Again my choice. Or I could buy 2 W.B. figures instead of one K&C, or two Rugers instead of 1 Wilson. All choices I need to make.

I do not think any of these companies are trying to price anybody out of the market, they are just trying to maximize profits while keeping there customers happy and in fact to keep them as customers. Not an easy balancing act at all, yet one that almost every company in the world does daily. I have no ideal of the business structure or business cost of K&C but I would guess these price increases are a combination of both the needs of K&C and the desire for them to maximize profits. Time will tell if it was the right choice. I guess Andy knows a wee bit more about running this type of company than I do so I will defer to his wisdom on the subject.

I will say I started collecting K&C but have already branched off into W.B. and John Jenkins because I have reservations about paying $40 for a single piece of K&C in the future. I have also discovered the great used market as well as the older pieces by these companies as a way of stretching my dollar. Had the prices not increased the month I started the hobby (yeah that is pretty much my type of luck) I would not have looked at these different areas of the hobby. I have stumbled into the world of glossy because of this and I think I might be in love..... So in a way the increases made the hobby more enjoyable for me.

I have even started to try and paint my own, the verdict is still out on that {eek3} I will say those folks painting for K&C are artist IMO and deserve the money they get paid. I mean Andy could hire me to paint and you could get figurers for $10 or so but the paint job would be....lets' say questionable. {sm3}

All in all I can understand the concern many have on prices. I agree that stress should not be part of the hobby. But stress is something we are putting on our self in this case IMO. Imagine being new and wanting everything! That is where I am now {sm3} But just like the 1911 field I am just happy to have so many choices to choose from in the toy solider field.

I am excited about this hobby, it is kinda sad to see some folks talking about walking away because of pricing. I hope they stay around and keep this hobby healthy and exciting.

Again I am the newbbie here but I just wanted to share my thoughts. :redface2:

From the mouths of newbies come the wisdom of the ages..Great thoughts.Michael

 

[braddinpa]

I am a new guy too. My passion is Civil War History and I collect Civil war things. Lucky enough to pick up a diary a few months and I try to apply my Civil war collecting philosophy to the TS area. ENJOY! Dont' collect for investment. But collect because you like it. I saw some people collect Civil War things to use as an investment or to "show off". My attitude is enjoy it. I love my Tiger, Command Set (WS75) and my new bulge figure (forget the name). But the guy from the famous serious of pictures. As you can see my ts collection is very small! But I still love it! And I am sure it will continue to grow! Brad

 

[Panzer Meyer]

Like any hobby this one is expensive . The only way prices would ever go down is if everyone stopped buying toy soldiers this is never going to happen . K&C for many years did not raise there prices when the prices starting going up that is when collectors started to take notice . K&C has to make a profit otherwise no more King & Country .

 

[PanzerAce1944]

I am a new guy too. My passion is Civil War History and I collect Civil war things. Lucky enough to pick up a diary a few months and I try to apply my Civil war collecting philosophy to the TS area. ENJOY! Dont' collect for investment. But collect because you like it. I saw some people collect Civil War things to use as an investment or to "show off". My attitude is enjoy it. I love my Tiger, Command Set (WS75) and my new bulge figure (forget the name). But the guy from the famous serious of pictures. As you can see my ts collection is very small! But I still love it! And I am sure it will continue to grow! Brad

Great Collections are acquired over time........

 

[GJB22]

There are two possible reasons for the constant increase in price. Either the labor costs are going up or KC just wants to make more money. Maybe it's both? I am under the understanding that it's the labor costs that are affecting figure costs. But I must also raise the question as to why aren't other manufacturers charging the same high prices? They will not survive long if they are losing money. So maybe the answer is GREED? And I suppose that everyone is happy with the constant price increases? If things keep going the way they are, eventually all of us will be out of the hobby. Everyone has a limit.

 

[maddadicus]

There are two possible reasons for the constant increase in price. Either the labor costs are going up or KC just wants to make more money. Maybe it's both? I am under the understanding that it's the labor costs that are affecting figure costs. But I must also raise the question as to why aren't other manufacturers charging the same high prices? They will not survive long if they are losing money. So maybe the answer is GREED? And I suppose that everyone is happy with the constant price increases? If things keep going the way they are, eventually all of us will be out of the hobby. Everyone has a limit.

K/C has greater overhead than the other companies. Having been in business longer, they put out far more product which means more sculpting and mold making costs ,have a greater number of employees and a much larger advertising and logistics budget than most. Business lessons 101 for anyone who does not throw out the " greed card " every time they have no clue as to how businesses operate..Total up the number of new look products every year by K/C compared to others and figure it out..Michael

 

[Mitch]

GJB22..

Valid concerns IMO I also have no idea what K&C overheads are but, as everyone keeps saying how he is such a wizard at business then they must be as low as he can get them and he must with the size of business, as we are always told by those who seem to know, be in a better position than most manufacturers to demand the best (lowest) prices from those factories or, he could pull the plug which, must hurt them more than it would hurt him

Nobody denies him making a profit but, for the collectors there comes a breaking point and for months many have been saying its here can the hobby really continue if its losing or having mainstay collectors stop or greatly reduce the buying habits????
Mitch

 

[trooper]

Like Mitch I have no idea of the overheads but the shipping charges must be horrendous as is the amount of advertising. I know that full page, full colour is extremely high and a lot of the time it is on the back cover of various magazines which is even higher still. Trooper

 

[King & Country]

Re : Greetings from the Wizard…NOT!

Hi Guys, hi Mitch,

As you are no doubt aware my friends I have been called many things on both this Forum and a little one further north…but “WIZARD” is not one of them!

And personally speaking, I certainly would not consider myself capable of performing any kind of business wizardry.

As for “demanding” the best or lowest prices from factories…K&C or indeed any other toy soldier company operating in China today is not in the position to demand anything…full stop!

But hey what do I know? The business experts sitting thousands of miles always know better! Don’t they?

Best wishes,
Andy. C

 

[maddadicus]

There are two possible reasons for the constant increase in price. Either the labor costs are going up or KC just wants to make more money. Maybe it's both? I am under the understanding that it's the labor costs that are affecting figure costs. But I must also raise the question as to why aren't other manufacturers charging the same high prices? They will not survive long if they are losing money. So maybe the answer is GREED? And I suppose that everyone is happy with the constant price increases? If things keep going the way they are, eventually all of us will be out of the hobby. Everyone has a limit.

Just a thought, have you ever stated this opinion over at the First Legion thread? He is charging $300.00 for a German truck and $115.00 for 2 sitting figures. Where is the outrage of most who complain over here at this forum. It is an honest question that I have yet to hear an honest response to, except " they are way better looking and worth all the " greed " they can charge ". CS is the only mfg. that has been able to hold price point and put out more product than all the competitors to K/C..But that company is the only one, so to always rain on the K/C parade for pricing structure comes across as being one sided and not fair..My thoughts are not just referencing this post but to all those that know their names and their anti-K/C jabs..Michael

 

[Terp152]

CS is the only mfg. that has been able to hold price point and put out more product than all the competitors to K/C..But that company is the only one, so to always rain on the K/C parade for pricing structure comes across as being one sided and not fair..My thoughts are not just referencing this post but to all those that know their names and their anti-K/C jabs..Michael

Well, WB new fig release: $30, KC: $42, 40% price difference. I believe both are made in China and same quality IMO. Maybe First Gear is the real "wizzard."

 

[Mitch]

I think maybe one of the reasons why people bring price up apart from the obvious maybe that K&C have been around the longest and, the collectors remember the lower prices more readily and easily than with other manufacturers. Maddadicus asks why this is not mentioned on the FL forum well, I have on a number of occasions raised comments on there but, its with the exception of Frank and a few others unable to discuss anything which detracts from the image of FL as being nigh on perfect (nothing wrong with that I add if it can be done!!).

It may also not happen on FL threads as this company started with high prices compared to other manufacturers so, its harder to see increases than say, with K&C and others.

I do note that a number of FL collectors have stated they cannot see the reason for the current price of two figures and many have said about the cost of the new Blitz. I like the detail but, agree that its the same cost as a Tank and even with the detail cannot see how that could be.

Anyway, I digress, as my point or reason for the post was to Andy. I have never mentioned how you run your business nor, have I said you should do this or that so, I cannot understand why the need to throw in the ''what do I know'' comment at the end of the post. It just engenders animosity. I was just wondering out loud if the companies had clout with the factories rather than factories stating what will be.It just so happened that it was in this thread and I would have said the same thing had it been in any other manufacturers thread
Mitch

 

[Alex]

Being a FL collector (and K&C in the past) I completely agree with Mitch and Maddadicus..

Yes 115$ for 2 sitting figure is a lot of dough as 300$ is for a truck..

Since I collect many FL lines, I see much more value in many other FL figures than these 2 products. If you want a list I can give it to you... For example the british mounted colonel for 89$ is a complete steal... Way less than the 2 sitting figures !

I find this truck awesome but I prefer to use the 300$ it cost to buy 5 highlanders instead..

I'm pretty sure that FL & K&C margins are not the same from one figure or AFV to another...

Cheers

Alex

 

[GJB22]

I'm not ever going to say that I know anything about business. My posts were meant to be questions/concerns. No one can tell me that the constant price increases don't scare/bother them. Again I must state that I'm not hating on KC. Maybe I should just stop asking questions and just accept the changing times.

Also, $115 for two figures is outrageous, but I guess that's where we're headed.

 

[Ruggles]

I'm not ever going to say that I know anything about business. My posts were meant to be questions/concerns. No one can tell me that the constant price increases don't scare/bother them. Again I must state that I'm not hating on KC. Maybe I should just stop asking questions and just accept the changing times.

Also, $115 for two figures is outrageous, but I guess that's where we're headed.

I hope my post did not imply that to you, I was just "thinking out loud" more or less and certainly was not trying to be critical of your thoughts.

Price increases do concern me to a degree but I do not worry too much as I will just not buy what I deem to expensive for my budget. {sm4}