Gettysburg Casualties (1 Viewer)

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lancer

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I just mentioned a new book on Gettysburg in the book section, but I wanted to reach a wider audience with this thread. The new book is called "The Gettysburg Campaign in Numbers and Losses: Synopses, Orders of Battle, Strengths, Casualties, and Maps, June 9-July 14, 1863". It is written by David Petruzzi and Steven Stanley, published by Savas Beatie, and is 210 pages long. It is, quite simply, the best thing I have seen in regards to it's subject matter. This work includes every unit on both sides, and it's casualties, by engagement, for the entire Gettysburg Campaign, beginning to end. Every skirmish and larger fight during the campaign is included, even where no casualties were inflicted. The authors also make outstanding use of visual strength/loss charts for each engagement, which for me, made it easier to keep track of the numbers then simply reading the numbers. I also was pleased to see that the authors had broken down losses during the 3 day battle by the day, thus giving me a really clear understanding of the brutal losses per day/action as opposed to just the final total. For a Gettysburg historian, amateur or professional, I would think this book is going to prove indispensable. I have really enjoyed it and HIGHLY recommend it, if you have any interest in Gettysburg. -- Al
 
lancer said:
I just mentioned a new book on Gettysburg in the book section, but I wanted to reach a wider audience with this thread. The new book is called "The Gettysburg Campaign in Numbers and Losses: Synopses, Orders of Battle, Strengths, Casualties, and Maps, June 9-July 14, 1863". It is written by David Petruzzi and Steven Stanley, published by Savas Beatie, and is 210 pages long. It is, quite simply, the best thing I have seen in regards to it's subject matter. This work includes every unit on both sides, and it's casualties, by engagement, for the entire Gettysburg Campaign, beginning to end. Every skirmish and larger fight during the campaign is included, even where no casualties were inflicted. The authors also make outstanding use of visual strength/loss charts for each engagement, which for me, made it easier to keep track of the numbers then simply reading the numbers. I also was pleased to see that the authors had broken down losses during the 3 day battle by the day, thus giving me a really clear understanding of the brutal losses per day/action as opposed to just the final total. For a Gettysburg historian, amateur or professional, I would think this book is going to prove indispensable. I have really enjoyed it and HIGHLY recommend it, if you have any interest in Gettysburg. -- Al
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Thanks Al. Sounds interesting. Did they give a tally of total casualties for each side? I've seen some variation in those numbers.
 
Combat said:
Thanks Al. Sounds interesting. Did they give a tally of total casualties for each side? I've seen some variation in those numbers.
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I have not run across a total for the campaign as a whole, although this would seem to be a matter of just adding the totals of the various actions covered throughout. The authors do give totals for the battle itself, being careful to take the variables into account such as incomplete casualty returns, best estimates, etc. The numbers actually show Union losses as slightly higher on a pure number basis, but the Southern losses were heavier on a percentage of total numbers present basis. Union losses are estimated at 23,420 - 24,200 (24.7%), while Southern losses are estimated at 22,400 - 23,800 (31.6%). Southern KIA, 4300-4800, were much heavier than Northern KIA, 3120-3200. -- Al
 
As mentioned in the first post, the authors break losses at Gettysburg down by the day.
First day: Union total losses; 8240-8450 with 850 KIA
Confederate losses; 4500-4900 with 900 to 1000 KIA
Second day: Union losses; 11570-11650 with 1800-1850 KIA
Confederate losses; 7900-8500 with 1600-1800 KIA
Third day: Union losses; 3000-3130 with 500 KIA
Confederate losses; 9700-10,400 with 1800-2000 KIA
As you can see, and as everyone knows, the third day was a disaster for the South and it was the casualties suffered on the third day by the South that left the final casualty figures between both sides so close in total. The first and second days, while very close in KIA totals for both sides, show a definite Southern advantage in overall casualties. It is indicative of the very desperate fighting on the second day that there were around 20,000 total casualties on this day alone. It is easy to see that Gettysburg, beyond the obvious tactical and strategic outcomes, was a terrible tragedy for both sides and makes the less than enthusiastic pursuit of Lee by Meade somewhat more understandable. -- Al
 
This sounds superb Al, thanks for posting it here mate and I think I'm going to get this^&cool

Rob
 
Considering that the Union were the defenders, casualty-wise (thinking the Confederates would have suffered more) the battle was almost even.
 
Yes, it was terrible for both sides but when you have the enemy in the grasp of your hand and let him escape, that's hard to take, which is why Lincoln wrote, in part, the following to General Meade on July 14, 1863:

"Again, my dear general, I do not believe you appreciate the magnitude of the misfortune involved in Lee's escape. He was within your easy grasp, and to have closed upon him would, in connection with our other late successes, have ended the war. As it is, the war will be prolonged indefinitely. If you could not safely attack Lee last monday, how can you possibly do so South of the river, when you can take with you very few more than two thirds of the force you then had in hand? It would be unreasonable to expect, and I do not expect you can now effect much. Your golden opportunity is gone, and I am distressed immeasurably because of it.​

I beg you will not consider this a prosecution, or persecution of yourself. As you had learned that I was dissatisfied, I have thought it best to kindly tell you why."​

Lincoln did not send the letter but used it to vent his frustration with yet another general. He realized had he sent it that Meade's effectiveness would have ended.

Here is a link to the Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln of the full letter, http://quod.lib.umich.edu/l/lincoln...il;type=simple;view=fulltext;q1=July+14,+1863
 
jazzeum said:
I don't know why it's so expensive in the UK. Amazon US has it for $21 US.
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Because it isn't stocked by AmazonUK, but listed by one of Amazon's Market Place Sellers. Which, by the way, is shipped from New York and takes three weeks. In the U.S. it is stocked by Amazon. Just order from AmazonUS. I often order from AmazonUK when a U.S. Market Place Seller gets greedy. I suppose it only takes one buyer to fall for that and they make £100. Also, check eBay.
 
Yes they sure do get greedy.I've been looking for an old Osprey book called Montcalm's Army published in 1973.The cheapest I can find it is $75 but most others want $300 + for it.One guy has it listed for $1405!{eek3}I want the book but I'm not giving those kind of prices for it especially since Osprey might one day reprint it.
Mark
 
UKReb said:
Er! Rob I don't think you will when you look at the price we will have to pay {eek3}{eek3}{eek3}



http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Gettysb...=8-2&keywords=the+gettysburg+campaign+numbers
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Don't know why the expense. Publisher's price is $32.95 and a little shopping around will get it cheaper than that. Also, the description from the UK page says it has 192 pages, which is quite incorrect. It has 210 pages. As it is just released, maybe a little patience will pay off, price-wise. The Amazon deal is liable to be the best bet for 'as new' prices, unless you happen to belong to the Military Book Club and take advantage of their occasional specials. -- Al
 
marco55 said:
Yes they sure do get greedy.I've been looking for an old Osprey book called Montcalm's Army published in 1973.The cheapest I can find it is $75 but most others want $300 + for it.One guy has it listed for $1405!{eek3}I want the book but I'm not giving those kind of prices for it especially since Osprey might one day reprint it.
Mark
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That is part of the trouble with the internet. Everyone feeds off of the next guy's pricing and all of a sudden, a $15 book becomes as valuable as gold and then the dealer wants $300 for that $15 book. It's idiotic. Your patience will pay off. Lots of dealers don't list their whole stock, so it is worth contacting your favorite dealers and asking about particular titles. Most of my WW1 aviation books come from a dealer that doesn't even list on ABE or Amazon. Lots of dealers like that out there. -- Al
 
jazzeum said:
Yes, it was terrible for both sides but when you have the enemy in the grasp of your hand and let him escape, that's hard to take, which is why Lincoln wrote, in part, the following to General Meade on July 14, 1863:

"Again, my dear general, I do not believe you appreciate the magnitude of the misfortune involved in Lee's escape. He was within your easy grasp, and to have closed upon him would, in connection with our other late successes, have ended the war. As it is, the war will be prolonged indefinitely. If you could not safely attack Lee last monday, how can you possibly do so South of the river, when you can take with you very few more than two thirds of the force you then had in hand? It would be unreasonable to expect, and I do not expect you can now effect much. Your golden opportunity is gone, and I am distressed immeasurably because of it.​

I beg you will not consider this a prosecution, or persecution of yourself. As you had learned that I was dissatisfied, I have thought it best to kindly tell you why."​

Lincoln did not send the letter but used it to vent his frustration with yet another general. He realized had he sent it that Meade's effectiveness would have ended.

Here is a link to the Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln of the full letter, http://quod.lib.umich.edu/l/lincoln...il;type=simple;view=fulltext;q1=July+14,+1863
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Brad,

Thanks for posting this. I'd heard about this post Gettysburg letter but not seen the script.:smile2:

Rob
 
lancer said:
I have not run across a total for the campaign as a whole, although this would seem to be a matter of just adding the totals of the various actions covered throughout. The authors do give totals for the battle itself, being careful to take the variables into account such as incomplete casualty returns, best estimates, etc. The numbers actually show Union losses as slightly higher on a pure number basis, but the Southern losses were heavier on a percentage of total numbers present basis. Union losses are estimated at 23,420 - 24,200 (24.7%), while Southern losses are estimated at 22,400 - 23,800 (31.6%). Southern KIA, 4300-4800, were much heavier than Northern KIA, 3120-3200. -- Al
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I now have run across the total for the campaign. The authors estimate the total loss, for both sides, during the entire campaign (42 separate actions listed in the book) as 60,000. The break-downs and distribution of numbers lie within the text. -- Al
 
Just as an aside, I saw that CSPAN will be covering some of the 150th anniversary events from Gettysburg beginning on June 30.
 
Rob said:
^&grin:salute::

Thanks mate!

Bob, lend us £35!^&grin

Rob
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Rob

Have you any idea how much you currently owe me?.....Even George Osborne is getting concerned with your personal GDP debt.

Seriously though after Al perfectly articulated what this book is all about has definitely prompted me to put it on my list of "must haves". What I will do initially is search out the "book-man" and his table on the mezzanine floor on Saturday at the London show. Rob don't know if you have ever looked over his prolific library for sale that he usually has at every show but I have picked up any number of out of print military history books from him and all at reasonable prices.

However, if he does have Al's recommendation and it's north of £115.00 I'll leave it for you and borrow it downstream ^&grin

Bob
 
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