Global Warming: Fact or Fiction? (2 Viewers)

Global Warming: Fact or Fiction?


  • Total voters
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I remember back in college, scientist were predicting a global cooling, and a new ice age. I remember the pictures of those penguins standing and romping on a floating ice. Now it is global warming and they featured those same penguins in a negative light, insinuating that because of global warming, these poor penguins will have no plsce to play...but aren't they aquatic?

And, Whatever happened to the NASA report that the sun is hotter than usual...hmmm. Hardly hear anything about it. Too many SUVs in the sun maybe?
 
I remember back in college, scientist were predicting a global cooling, and a new ice age. I remember the pictures of those penguins standing and romping on a floating ice. Now it is global warming and they featured those same penguins in a negative light, insinuating that because of global warming, these poor penguins will have no plsce to play...but aren't they aquatic?
And, Whatever happened to the NASA report that the sun is hotter than usual...hmmm. Hardly hear anything about it. Too many SUVs in the sun maybe?


Penguins only feed in the water, they are not like whales. They need land in which to nest.
 
London calling to the faraway towns
Now war is declared - and battle come down
London calling to the underworld
Come out of the cupboard,you boys and girls
London calling, now don't look to us
Phoney Beatlemania has bitten the dust
London calling, see we ain't got no swing
'Cept for the ring of that truncheon thing

CHORUS
The ice age is coming, the sun's zooming in
Meltdown expected, the wheat is growing thin
Engines stop running, but I have no fear
Cause London is drowning and I, live by the river

London calling to the imitation zone
Forget it, brother, you can go at it alone
London calling to the zombies of death
Quit holding out - and draw another breath
London calling - and I don't wanna shout
But while we were talking I saw you nodding out
London calling, see we ain't got no high
Except for that one with the yellowy eyes

CHORUS x2
The ice age is coming, the sun's zooming in
Engines stop running, the wheat is growing thin
A nuclear era, but I have no fear
Cause London is drowning and I, I live by the river

Now get this
London calling, yes, I was there, too
An' you know what they said? Well, some of it was true!
London calling at the top of the dial
And after all this, won't you give me a smile?
London Calling

I never felt so much alike, like-a, like-a...

The Clash
What a great band we will never see their like again
 
I'm undecided because there is no definite proof just yet.

However what we can be sure of is that man is having a negative effect on the Earths flora and fauna.

And we can also be sure that the Earth and the Universe has changed over the years and and will continue to change irrespective of what man does.

Although these natural changes are inevitable over time it still makes sense to ensure we use processes that don't hasten these changes.

If you are in a boat that seems to have to much water in it, it makes sense to start bailing rather than argue if it is actually sinking or who or what caused the hole ;)
 
I'm undecided because there is no definite proof just yet.

However what we can be sure of is that man is having a negative effect on the Earths flora and fauna.

And we can also be sure that the Earth and the Universe has changed over the years and and will continue to change irrespective of what man does.

Although these natural changes are inevitable over time it still makes sense to ensure we use processes that don't hasten these changes.

If you are in a boat that seems to have to much water in it, it makes sense to start bailing rather than argue if it is actually sinking or who or what caused the hole ;)

Then you agree that there's water in the boat, or is it debatable that your pants, are soaked?:)
 
If you are in a boat that seems to have to much water in it, it makes sense to start bailing rather than argue if it is actually sinking or who or what caused the hole ;)

That's it exactly! It's really not material if it's caused by carbon emissions or cow farts it's what do you do about pollution/climate change. We know the earth heats up at times so simply not burning fossil fuels (while it might be good a good idea pollution wise) isn't necessarily going to stop it. The question I have for the nut jobs is what does society do when it occurs naturally to lesson its impact on things like global food production etc. I have a sneaky feeling that some on the fringe would then be saying it was Earths way of "naturally" dealing with an excessive plague of humanity:rolleyes:. It's kind of like debating if space junk causes asteroid strikes.. go ahead and look into it just in case we are making it worse but we all know asteroids strike so lets figure out a system to stop one if it's headed our way not start up an "asteroid credit exchange company" which does nothing about the obvious eventuality;).

Cheers, Saber
 
Guys

sorry i cannot see how anybody cannot see that the human race is not adding to the Global problems!!??? :confused:
Hey and dont get me wrong i have a huge carbon foot print!!! but do my part at home!!

More planes!!!
More cars!!!
More farting cows due to increased demand on beef!!!
more waste as too many humans, and too many items now classed as throw away
seas over fished and reefs ruined
more trees coming down then going up in some parts!!
more polution as we are after as much product in the world as cheap as possible!
too much packaging!! i mean come on why does a Supermarket shrink wrap a Turnip!!!

all the above due to humans!! thats without the natural global changes that mother nature has up her sleeve!

Tony
 
...
If you are in a boat that seems to have to much water in it, it makes sense to start bailing rather than argue if it is actually sinking or who or what caused the hole ;)
Actually that assumes that bailing will be effective to stop the sinking.;):) That is the problem here; if human action had little impact on the cause (and according to many even green scientists, even if it did), then certainly it will have little impact on the effect.
 
Guys

sorry i cannot see how anybody cannot see that the human race is not adding to the Global problems!!??? :confused:
Hey and dont get me wrong i have a huge carbon foot print!!! but do my part at home!!

More planes!!!
More cars!!!
More farting cows due to increased demand on beef!!!
more waste as too many humans, and too many items now classed as throw away
seas over fished and reefs ruined
more trees coming down then going up in some parts!!
more polution as we are after as much product in the world as cheap as possible!
too much packaging!! i mean come on why does a Supermarket shrink wrap a Turnip!!!

all the above due to humans!! thats without the natural global changes that mother nature has up her sleeve!

Tony


I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that we are harming our own environment. Is it linked to the changing of the enviroment though :confused:

Things change and what was good 20 years is now bad for you :confused:
 
I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that we are harming our own environment. Is it linked to the changing of the enviroment though :confused:

Things change and what was good 20 years is now bad for you :confused:

Brit

I strongly think it is!!!

Are things not bad now because we know they are?? and we did not have the know how before!!

test an atom bomb and give the soldiers that were involved nothing better than a pair of raybans!! ask them now 60 odd years on! was that good for them........oh and their children that are suffering genetic defects3 to 4 generations on.

I cannot see the distingtion between OUR enviroment and THE enviroment. To me all the same thing, WE all live in it!

So for me a big yes we are and we need to do somethiing about it!! and the sooner ALL developped countries get on board and except their part the better and easier it will be for the single guy to do their part........and married guys lol
 
Brit

I strongly think it is!!!

Are things not bad now because we know they are?? and we did not have the know how before!!

....
So for me a big yes we are and we need to do somethiing about it!! and the sooner ALL developped countries get on board and except their part the better and easier it will be for the single guy to do their part........and married guys lol
Belief is fine but belief based on "real" science is even better.;) I fail to see the analogy here. Yes we should always try to do things better and that includes protecting our environment; turning society on its head to meet a political agenda is a different thing entirely. Al was never the brightest lad but he certainly knows how to ride a wave.;):)
 
Brit

I strongly think it is!!!

Are things not bad now because we know they are?? and we did not have the know how before!!

test an atom bomb and give the soldiers that were involved nothing better than a pair of raybans!! ask them now 60 odd years on! was that good for them........oh and their children that are suffering genetic defects3 to 4 generations on.

I cannot see the distingtion between OUR enviroment and THE enviroment. To me all the same thing, WE all live in it!

So for me a big yes we are and we need to do somethiing about it!! and the sooner ALL developped countries get on board and except their part the better and easier it will be for the single guy to do their part........and married guys lol


I agree on certain things being bad for us, lead, asbestos, smoking. Things I wonder about are more trivial, ie marg vs. butter, surely all those chemicals can't be good for the body ? and I read somewhere that a study was done on fruit being bad for you as the sugar rots your teeth. Little OT sorry :D
 
Well, I'm no scientist, and it may be my imagination, but seems as though winter lasts 5 months and summer shoots by faster then the speed of light. If there was indeed global warming I would expect the opposite.
 
Well, I'm no scientist, and it may be my imagination, but seems as though winter lasts 5 months and summer shoots by faster then the speed of light. If there was indeed global warming I would expect the opposite.


They call it global warming but it is actually (according to Wikipedia):-

"Global warming is the increase in the average measured temperature of the Earth's near-surface air and oceans since the mid-20th century, and its projected continuation."
 
Well now I am completely confused :confused:

What is a fellow supposed to do with his electric blanket if it is getting warmer? And all that insulation in the attic, should I take it out or not? And if the world is warming, should I continue to buy long sleeve shirts? :rolleyes:
 
Well, I'm no scientist, and it may be my imagination, but seems as though winter lasts 5 months and summer shoots by faster then the speed of light...

That's because you're getting old ;)

Prost!
Brad
 
Well now I am completely confused :confused:

What is a fellow supposed to do with his electric blanket if it is getting warmer? And all that insulation in the attic, should I take it out or not? And if the world is warming, should I continue to buy long sleeve shirts? :rolleyes:
Even if all the temperature rise forecasts are correct, I would keep your blanket; it is the average termperature that is rising but there are no guarantees on how the temperature extremes will be affected. I also would leave your attic alone; insulation will work against heat or cold and again you have the extremes issue. The extremes issue also applies to long sleeve shirts; besides if there is no ozone layer, you will need them to avoid skin cancer.:D
 
Well now I am completely confused :confused:

What is a fellow supposed to do with his electric blanket if it is getting warmer? And all that insulation in the attic, should I take it out or not? And if the world is warming, should I continue to buy long sleeve shirts? :rolleyes:

I, good sir, shall be protected in my previously mentioned "LEAD SOLDIER CASKET":), did I mention it also serves as an air raid shelter?:D

Cheers, Saber
 
Guys

sorry i cannot see how anybody cannot see that the human race is not adding to the Global problems!!??? :confused:
Hey and dont get me wrong i have a huge carbon foot print!!! but do my part at home!!

More planes!!!
More cars!!!
More farting cows due to increased demand on beef!!!
more waste as too many humans, and too many items now classed as throw away
seas over fished and reefs ruined
more trees coming down then going up in some parts!!
more polution as we are after as much product in the world as cheap as possible!
too much packaging!! i mean come on why does a Supermarket shrink wrap a Turnip!!!

all the above due to humans!! thats without the natural global changes that mother nature has up her sleeve!

Tony

Nicely said Tony! Yep. It's a fact. And it’s being caused by six billion hairless apes running around eating, breathing, CONSUMING, reproducing and destroying ecological systems left right and centre. In high school science class I'm sure some of you have seen under a microscope that bacteria in a dish will keep multiplying until they all die. Humans aren’t any different it seems - there's twice as many people munching off the earth today as there was in 1960, when many of you were already walking and talking. It's time to adjust to this new reality - things are very different than they used to be.

For those that want "proof", you'll never have it in time because proof can only come through the scientific method. The scientific method relies on running experiments. Experiments in turn depend on the ability to compare at least two sample subjects for cause and effect, with one of the samples being held as a control where nothing changes (i.e. placebo). The problem is, we only have ONE planet earth (and one atmosphere etc.) on which to run our experiment and we can't hold it still for a second in order to PROVE definitively whether humans are the primary cause or not.

Instead we have to rely on the comprehensive historical research, smaller scale experimentation and future modeling that has been conducted by the world's top scientists for the last 50 years. No space to go into it here, the particulars are easy enough to find on the web.

So what it will come down to is a test of faith, of how much we're willing to gamble. On one hand, we can keep going as before with our polluting lifestyles, deluded into believing that the earth is not warming just like getting off our dependence on Middle East oil has nothing to do with stopping terrorism. If we're right, we won't have had to make any sacrifices and we can continue on with our ultra-consumerist lifestyle that is, by the way, also rapidly depleting the world’s finite oil supply (the basis of industrial civilization) while not making us any happier (according to surveys, the happiness of the average person in the Western world peaked in the 1960s).

If we're wrong, it will literally mean the end of the earth as we know it. And this is key to determining where you stand on this issue - Al Gore for all his pontificating did not reveal the ultimate consequences of global warming. To do that, you need to read a book like "Under a Green Sky" by Peter Ward, a NASA scientist.

Because if you’ve been to a casino, you know that how much you're willing to gamble depends on what you judge the stakes to be. If you don't know the likely consequences, you can't make an informed decision.

Basically, in the short term (say from now to 40 years out) higher temperatures will likely "only" mean more super storms and forest fires. The extinction of millions of species worldwide. The spread of infectious diseases like malaria into nothern latitudes. Water shortages due to the drying up of glaciers. Rising sea levels submerging island nations and some coastal cities. This is where Al Gore stopped.

In the medium term (40-120 years out), the climate conditions that humans have enjoyed since the start of the agricultural revolution come to an end leading to the failure of the world's food crops and mass starvation. Drinking water shortages everywhere. Mass migration of refugees. Wars over resources. The breakdown of global order and nation states. Mass dieoff of people and animals.

Yet while half of the people on earth may be dead, the end of planet earth as we know it doesn't happen until the long term (120 years and further out). Then we get things like mass oceanic dieoff coming to a head which leads to the formation of hydrogen-sulfide gas in the ocean. This begins to rise to the surface. It turns the sky green. And great clouds of this deadly gas spread out across the land, killing everything they come in contact with. There will be nowhere for our children to hide. The planet earth that you wake up to every day will be irrevocably changed and it is doutbful whether the human race will be a part of its future.

This is exactly what scientists theorized happened in the Jurassic mass extinction (as well as most other extinctions when a comet wasn't involved). As the great supercontinent Pangaea broke up and continents shifted, extreme volcanic activity created greenhouse gas emissions that led to the aforementioned hydrogen sulfide clouds covering the landscape. So many billions of oceanic organisms died at one place and time that they didn't have time to decompose normally. Instead they became fossilized. And this is why we have oil deposits in Saudi Arabia - the Ghawar field was the site of an ocean shelf in Jurassic times.

See, for the longest time we weren't sure how or why oil was formed - now we're beginning to realize that fossil fuels and global warming are intrinsically linked. Global warming creates the mass oceanic dieoff necessary to create fossil fuels which trap carbon underground. Then something comes along and releases the carbon (like us) and that creates global warming. What cools the earth down? When enough plant life re-emerges on earth again after millions of years to reabsorb the carbon. In this way the planet's temperature and climate have passed through cycles depending on whether the carbon is in the ground, or the air. That's how the machine works. Ironically, by burning fossil fuel and unleashing the trapped carbon we are creating the conditions for the formation of oil all over again. Unfortunately, we are unlikely to survive as a civilization long enough to enjoy it. Perhaps the carbon in the oil of the future will come from you and me!

Of course, like I started off by saying, this is all theory based on the best science in the world. If we continue emitting carbon we honestly don't really know what will happen. But we know some of what could happen, based on upheavels and extinctions that have shaken our planet before. Some of these events may happen sooner and some later, and so will many events we haven't even forseen yet.

If you want almost irrefutable evidence (not proof) that global warming is occurring, just check out what is happening in the Arctic and Antarctic (it's what convinced me). They are warmer than they have ever been in recorded human history and great chunks are melting into the ocean as we speak. Our governments are in a frantic rush to claim the newly revealed mineral deposits up there, as well as the northwest passage. Yes indeed, something is afoot. But it seems it’s easier for us to just glide with the times than think about why it's suddenly happening so quickly (when there just so happens to be a doubling of the human population on earth within a 40 year period).

Again, it ultimately comes down to, how much are you willing to risk, to gamble? We won’t have the definitive answer to our little experiment until global warming has progressed so far that it is impossible to stop. Is keeping our wasteful lifestyle today worth the end of the world as we know it for ALL our children to come? If this was a war, we wouldn’t be having this discussion – the enemy would be plain to see and we would be readily willing to sacrifice whatever was necessary to achieve ultimate victory. Well preventing the future that I described above IS the war of the 21st century, and what makes it nice is that for once in human history, we’re all on the same side, whether we acknowledge it or not. :cool:
 
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