Grey is Getting Popular: (1 Viewer)

[Vezzolf]

Well Good Fellows: It does seem that "grey" is getting popular. I was just wondering if FL will soon be releasing their own version of the Early Grey Tiger for the Eastern Front....This is something I would like to see FL do soon. {sm4}

 

[sammy719]

Well Good Fellows: It does seem that "grey" is getting popular. I was just wondering if FL will soon be releasing their own version of the Early Grey Tiger for the Eastern Front....This is something I would like to see FL do soon. {sm4}

that Frank would be a welcomed site to behold, we will get our Tiger one day you can bet the farm on that. seems like "Grey" was dead a few years ago but I believe that First Legion has had a good part in bringing it back to life, everyone was doing camo/various colors on most all vehicles/tanks and even though First Legion has had a limited set of Stalingrad vehicles/armour the Grey seems to have really had a postive effect on the hobby, and I for one look forward to the nexy Grey release for First Legion...Sammy

 

[Blowtorch]

Yeah, the K&C grey Tiger just released was no doubt inspired by this Stalingrad range. It's definitely K&C, part history, part business savvy. They chose the 503 unit (part of the Stalingrad campaign) which arrived in Russia in December 1942, but painted it as summer dusty grey, & even described it on their web page as on campaign in Russia between 8-11/42, which is the 502 battalion up north near Leningrad. Had to be intentional.

 

[Mitch]

sure grey was always popular and, the number of grey repaints I have done for collectors all around the globe and others I know of shows its always been an interest. Likewise in the modelling world a big following for the early war stuff. K&C, to be fair, have done numerous grey vehicles over the years but, I would have expected a few more when they have a Fields of Battle range focusing on the low countries campaign.

I am sure FL has made collectors more interested in the russian campaign well, at least Stalingrad but, I wonder how much its made collectors more interested in grey? probably debatable on both companies. Collectors likes change and, I think we are seeing this happen. much has been made in camo across the ranges and, its refreshing to see a change take place. the restriction on that battle for me, needs to expand beyond the city walls so, to speak. It certainly needs to if you ever expect a Tiger I to be incorporated in this range. It would be pushing the realms just too far.
Mitch

 

[Blowtorch]

Mitch, I highly suspect the K&C Tiger was a deliberate preemptive strike at a potential FL Tiger. FL if they did one for the Stalingrad range, would be restricted to two units: The 503 (1st & 2nd company) & 502 (2nd company). FL would probably offer two by precedent, a plain grey & a hasty white washed as that's what the pics from 12/42-2/43 show (but both with winterized crew). I like the K&C model but can't decide if it's worth getting one to go through the trouble of mammothing. It bugs me that their competitive business strategy is creating extra work for me. Oh who am I kidding, of course I'm going to get it{sm3}

 

[Mitch]

Blowtorch...

While I don't know if it was a deliberate marketing ploy I have my doubts. I would suspect that the difference between the two manufacturers and, the collector base of K&C would mean that they could release a Tiger I at anytime irrespective of who else had one out at the time and, it would be a seller and popular.

It may be that they wanted to release one first which, is a different issue. There certainly have been issues about where the tank was and similar but, its a nice model and, is certainly better painted than I would expect many thought it would be.

Now, the concerns I have with FL looking at addressing a Tiger I for the stalingrad theatre (unless this is speculation by their collectors??) is that Unternehemen Wintergewitter took place from about 12/ 12/ 42 until 24-25/12/42

Both 502 and 503 were not in the area at that time so, speculation that they led the spearhead to relieve the 6th armie is a strange one. Its more strange when noted authors have perpetuated the myth in many stalingrad books. Tigers were deployed but, after the failure of the operation and, I think some of the myth is based upon the fact that units were attached to the 17th PD for combat ops after their failed participation in UW.

For me, the only way I see a FL eastern front early tiger would be to loosen the shackles of the stalingrad battle and move outwards beyond the defeat of the 6th armie.
Mitch

 

[Rob]

Well I for one have started going grey since yesterday!:smile2: I hope you FL fans get a cool Tiger one in this camo too{bravo}}

Rob

 

[Blowtorch]

The Tigers weren't in the relief, they were in between the relief units & Rostov holding the line open to Army Group A in the Caucasus. Depends on one's view of Stalingrad. The micro view, 6th Army & the city, or the macro view, a strongpoint on Army Group A's northern flank. The goal of the whole campaign was the oilfields so Stalingrad & Tigers holding the line to the oilfields are intertwined to me.

There's a thread from last year with maps posted, will take time to find

 

[uksubs]

Mitch, I highly suspect the K&C Tiger was a deliberate preemptive strike at a potential FL Tiger. FL if they did one for the Stalingrad range, would be restricted to two units: The 503 (1st & 2nd company) & 502 (2nd company). FL would probably offer two by precedent, a plain grey & a hasty white washed as that's what the pics from 12/42-2/43 show (but both with winterized crew). I like the K&C model but can't decide if it's worth getting one to go through the trouble of mammothing. It bugs me that their competitive business strategy is creating extra work for me. Oh who am I kidding, of course I'm going to get it{sm3}

I think it will be Figarti who will have a grey tiger at the show ,which I still think is the best tiger out there for detail at this moment in time ,the grey K&C tiger nice but for over £200.00 still lack detail and refinedment for me but will still sell well .just my personal view on the subject

 

[Mitch]

Well, it seems that FL have taken the micro approach while the collectors asking for a Tiger I for the range are taking the macro approach. Thats the difficulty in these narrow approaches to a specific battle IMO. They can expand the range or, make a different title which, they will have to unless they are only going to stay at Stalingrad.
Mitch

The Tigers weren't in the relief, they were in between the relief units & Rostov holding the line open to Army Group A in the Caucasus. Depends on one's view of Stalingrad. The micro view, 6th Army & the city, or the macro view, a strongpoint on Army Group A's northern flank. The goal of the whole campaign was the oilfields so Stalingrad & Tigers holding the line to the oilfields are intertwined to me.

There's a thread from last year with maps posted, will take time to find

 

[Andanna]

I am not a collector of K&C and just went on the TF website to check out their new Tiger. I like it. But having said that, it does not really fit well into the K&C ranges. Consequently, it is listed as SS for Normandy (which makes it quite hard to find).

This adds some credence to the theory that the grey Tiger was produced by K&C under the influence of FL's issuance of early war grey Eastern Front AFV's.

Nevertheless, I am still surprised Veh001 is still available ....

 

[Vezzolf]

I'm sure that FL influence had alot to do with K/C releasing a Grey Tiger....Just as they did with K/C releasing Russians.... I heard "somewhere", "one or two times" before that grey AFV's and Russians "don't sell"....Well Well.. how times have changed since FL has come on the scene:wink2:.....Yet I still believe that FL (and maybe Figarti) will be releasing their own grey Tigers....I don't believe that FL will limit themselves to only Stalingard....We may well see the battle of Kursk.{sm4}

 

[Mitch]

Andanna..

I think its getting a little like a conspiracy theory things are not always black and white but, grey!!! (not your comments) many of K&C's themes are not really, and with no disrespect, meant, to be paid that much attention to. I think where they place AFV's and figures is more to do with marketing and such like than any range formation. These newer grey sets of early germans and AFV's would probably fit better in with their former catagory of Grossdeutchsland when they did other grey sets than SS etc.

I think collectors on the whole only look at the sets and not what catagory they are in. The New grey Tiger and 222 will fit well with any of the older and new early war germans they have done and, most of the grey armour they have recently released. The Panzer IV jumping to mind from the FOB range.

I just don't see the link between K&C releasing grey brought about by the Stalingrad range!! I really don't. The two manufacturers are not compatible in size so, its not like K&C will pull FL collectors to buy a Tiger I for their range and, vice versa. I think more likely is that a gret number of collectors some on here and probably many have contacted them over a long period and been asking for these style of troops.

Its probably more to do with the history of the two manufacturers and some of the stupid dust up's that have occured between some of their collectors that have made it possible to come to such conclusions
Mitch

I am not a collector of K&C and just went on the TF website to check out their new Tiger. I like it. But having said that, it does not really fit well into the K&C ranges. Consequently, it is listed as SS for Normandy (which makes it quite hard to find).

This adds some credence to the theory that the grey Tiger was produced by K&C under the influence of FL's issuance of early war grey Eastern Front AFV's.

Nevertheless, I am still surprised Veh001 is still available ....

 

[Rob]

Well I for one have started going grey since yesterday!:smile2: I hope you FL fans get a cool Tiger one in this camo too{bravo}}

Rob

Guys, a friend of mine has just pointed out that my post above could be seen as provocative. Please believe me this was not my intent in any way at all, I just meant that I hope the FL collectors get a Grey Tiger that I know many of them want. Apologies if this post gave any negative message.

Rob

 

[chrisharrison]

Guys, a friend of mine has just pointed out that my post above could be seen as provocative. Please believe me this was not my intent in any way at all, I just meant that I hope the FL collectors get a Grey Tiger that I know many of them want. Apologies if this post gave any negative message.

Rob

Not at all mate, I for one took it as nothing more than a welcome (and much-needed of late) gesture of goodwill between collectors of different persuasions

Chris

 

[Rob]

Not at all mate, I for one took it as nothing more than a welcome (and much-needed of late) gesture of goodwill between collectors of different persuasions

Chris

Thanks mate.

Rob

 

[Vezzolf]

The Tigers weren't in the relief, they were in between the relief units & Rostov holding the line open to Army Group A in the Caucasus. Depends on one's view of Stalingrad. The micro view, 6th Army & the city, or the macro view, a strongpoint on Army Group A's northern flank. The goal of the whole campaign was the oilfields so Stalingrad & Tigers holding the line to the oilfields are intertwined to me.

There's a thread from last year with maps posted, will take time to find

Great Post{bravo}}.....I am definitely in favor of the "macro view"...Any view that results in a First Legion Winterized Grey Tiger...will be a sight most welcome:wink2:

 

[joesgis]

I'm sure that FL influence had alot to do with K/C releasing a Grey Tiger....Just as they did with K/C releasing Russians.... I heard "somewhere", "one or two times" before that grey AFV's and Russians "don't sell"....Well Well.. how times have changed since FL has come on the scene:wink2:.....Yet I still believe that FL (and maybe Figarti) will be releasing their own grey Tigers....I don't believe that FL will limit themselves to only Stalingard....We may well see the battle of Kursk.{sm4}

Per Matt at HB it sounds like a grey Tiger from Figarti might be in the works.

Joe

 

[jazzeum]

Guys, a friend of mine has just pointed out that my post above could be seen as provocative. Please believe me this was not my intent in any way at all, I just meant that I hope the FL collectors get a Grey Tiger that I know many of them want. Apologies if this post gave any negative message.

Rob

Okay Monsieur Agent le Provacateur

 

[fmethorst]

Rob, your post is not provocative.

As for the arrival of Tigers in the vicinity of Stalingrad lets take a look at some maps

December 30 1942

The red arrow indicates the location of the first elements of s.H.Pz.Abt.503. The 6th Army is in the top right corner.

Here is a close-up of the same map. You can see Tle.Pz.Abt.503 is entrained and arriving south of Proletarskaja. "Tle" is an abbreviaition for "Teile" which tranlates to "parts of". Note that elements of 7.Panzer-Division (Tle.7.Pz) are entrained behind the 503rd. Also note that elements of SS-Panzergrenadier-Division "Wiking") are also present (Tle.SS.W) as this unit was brought up from the Caucasus.

December 31 1942

The red arrow indicates the location of the first elements of s.H.Pz.Abt.503. The 6th Army is in the top right corner.

This close-up shows the 503rd has moved northeast to the east side of the Manytsch river.

.

Now whether FL would consider "Operation Little Saturn" within the scope of the Stalingrad range is something only Matt can answer. This, of course, opens the Waffen SS option as well.

Frank