Honour Bound Unweathered? (2 Viewers)

[maddadicus]

I may be in an minority opinion, but am I the only one who would rather buy an unweathered version of any HB vehicle. As detailed as the Panther may have been, I could not get past the washed out paint job. Admittedly, I am drawn to the bright cartoonish color schemes of KC vehicles, but if the HB Panther had been left alone before weathering, I may have owned one of them, instead of the KC version. Maybe an informal poll would be in order to see what others might prefer. Maybe , we can preorder them unweathered .What do you think? Michael

 

[Combat]

I may be in an minority opinion, but am I the only one who would rather buy an unweathered version of any HB vehicle. As detailed as the Panther may have been, I could not get past the washed out paint job. Admittedly, I am drawn to the bright cartoonish color schemes of KC vehicles, but if the HB Panther had been left alone before weathering, I may have owned one of them, instead of the KC version. Maybe an informal poll would be in order to see what others might prefer. Maybe , we can preorder them unweathered .What do you think? Michael

I like it too, but Ana has said nada.

 

[Alexdakar]

I think if you were to see it in real life you would have a different opinion. When I'm at that stage of painting I think oh man that doesn't look very good or real but then after the weathering it brings it all together. My two cents.

 

[noli-poli]

My POV:

I like HB Panthers' slight weathering. I don't think they have that FFTFL (fresh from the factory look). It highlights the detailness of the piece. I would have bought the KC Panther but I think the weathering is overdone (to hide short cuts?). Looking at the KC Tigers, Jadgpanthers, Shermans, they all look swell with light weathering. Putting the KC Panther side by side with other KC or HB tanks, it looks out of place...unless you do a diorama by itself. Anyways, My HB Panthers now stand side by side with KC tanker figures (still superb...as they say in NJ, "Perfect Together").

N-P

 

[Firebat]

As I was reading the previous posts, I glanced over to my HB Panthers sitting on my work bench. I am staging them for a future diorama. They are just about the finest Military Model I have ever owned. Weathering all the way. They get a big "Get Real". I got a chance to see a K&C Jagdpanther, it looks like it belongs in a circus. With the colors on that, a Sherman could spot it about 5 miles away and maneuver to kill it. I even like my FOV one better than that. Rescue Me is coming on TV got to go........Firebat

 

[jazzeum]

Well, I'm going to have to disagree with you there. It was one of the first K & C tanks and remains a favorite. These are models, not the real thing -- I'm not of the "get real" school -- and these are toy soldiers. Realism is important but it's not the end all and be all of military miniatures or toy soldiers. Should we discard everything because it is not exactly the way it was in real life. We made a big deal about the 101st. I knew it's important to you but not everybody feels that way.

 

[red devil]

Are you talking about WS59? This was not one of the first K&C tanks or are you referring to another? Regardless I think that the colour scheme for WS59 is great and I do not see why Firebat has a problem with it. I doubt if 1 Sherman could take out a Jagdpanther even if it was painted bright orange or luminous green. The Jagdpanther was a far superior tank to the Sherman whatever colour it was painted.
Regards Red

 

[OzDigger]

Well, I'm going to have to disagree with you there. It was one of the first K & C tanks and remains a favorite. These are models, not the real thing -- I'm not of the "get real" school -- and these are toy soldiers. Realism is important but it's not the end all and be all of military miniatures or toy soldiers. Should we discard everything because it is not exactly the way it was in real life. We made a big deal about the 101st. I knew it's important to you but not everybody feels that way.

Models by definition are a smaller scale rendition of the real thing and toys and statues are interpretations for entertainment. King and Country advertise their products as being models, therefore it is expected that their products are as accurate as possible. Perhaps not everybody feels this way, but I suspect the majority of military model collectors do.

 

[jazzeum]

Are you talking about WS59? This was not one of the first K&C tanks or are you referring to another? Regardless I think that the colour scheme for WS59 is great and I do not see why Firebat has a problem with it. I doubt if 1 Sherman could take out a Jagdpanther even if it was painted bright orange or luminous green. The Jagdpanther was a far superior tank to the Sherman whatever colour it was painted.
Regards Red

That's the one.

 

[maddadicus]

Before we turn this thread into an pro/con K/C rant, I was not asking HB to not weather, but to offer the same vehicle as available unweathered. I saw the Panther on their site on a table in vibrant colors before weathering and thought they looked pretty nice. When compared to the washed out end product, I liked the table stuff better. They can do what they want, but since they are a new mfg., if enough customers prefer a vehicle offered with a choice of finish that does not cost HB 1 extra buck TO DO, then it is worth considering.....Michael as someone else commented on another thread Figarti did how mamy Stuarts ?( 7 )

 

[Pierre]

A real "circus" Jagdpanther at the Bovington Tank Museum.

Pierre.

 

[Louis Badolato]

Wow Pierre. Nice photo. Looks like Andy's "circus" ambush color schemes are in fact accurate. And on the weathered vs. unweathered, I also prefer the availability of tanks both ways. They did start out new and unweathered before getting beat up in combat, so both ways are useful.

 

[jazzeum]

Yup, looks like Andy was right on the mark and I was also wrong. That's one museum I would love to go to.

 

[Firebat]

Actually I think you "Unreall" guys have a point on this one. A lot of the German stuff had circus colors, but we are so used to seeing WWII in black and white that we don't realize it. The Jagdpanther was actually pretty cool, but the Green is sort of an Aqua color, thereby the Circus description. I was close to buying it, but the Aqua did me in. I can't get the nerve to weather a K&C tank yet, or else I would have bought it and dulled it down a bit. The new K&C Panther is brite but the colors are somewhat accurate. I would have bought it, but I liked the HB better. Maybe there is an Aqua German tank out there somewhere, a lot of painting was done in the field. I guess anything is possible. Find me a Aqua pic, and I will buy the Jagdpanther. To stay on the thread, if it made made some collectors happy HB should do a "New" version, their colors are accurate, and when the tank was new it would of course be brighter. I am not a K&C basher, 90% of my collection is K&C. You 'Unreal" guys really stick together, but I think your days are numbered.......Firebat

 

[jazzeum]

I can't get the nerve to weather a K&C tank yet, or else I would have bought it and dulled it down a bit.

I'm sure Alex is available to do the weathering for the right price

 

[Louis Badolato]

I hope I'm not being lumped together with the "unreal guys". I am always pushing Andy for more realism in his tracked vehicles, but, when it comes to colors and markings, I'm no expert, and I rely on the producers to get it right. That being said, to paraphrase Monty Python, I may not know art, but I know what I like (from the Last Supper painting skit: "I'm the bleedin' Pope I am!"). I got into collecting toy soldiers because I loved the bright colors of Victorian Era uniforms in the glossy traditional toy soldiers. While K&C has mde me stray towards more realistic matt soldiers, I am still more interested in tanks and men which look cool than in absolute accuracy. I want the last supper, with 1 Christ and not the penultimate supper with 3 Christs and a mariacchi band (i.e. accuracy), but I want it to look cool, so I'll accept "Judas looking the most Jewish" (i.e. brighter colors and less weathering) sometimes. [For the record I'm married to a Jewish woman, and this is a Monty Python reference, not a racist remark.]

 

[Firebat]

I hope I'm not being lumped together with the "unreal guys". I am always pushing Andy for more realism in his tracked vehicles right. While K&C has mde me stray towards more realistic matt soldiers, I am still more interested in tanks and men which look cool than in absolute accuracy. I want the last supper, with 1 Christ and not the penultimate supper with 3 Christs and a mariacchi band (i.e. accuracy), but I want it to look cool, so I'll accept "Judas looking the most Jewish" (i.e. brighter colors and less weathering) sometimes. [For the record I'm married to a Jewish woman, and this is a Monty Python reference, not a racist remark.]

The "Unreal Guys" are a very intelligent and philosophical bunch, and I respect that. There is nothing wrong with "pushing Andy" or anyone else that produces the products of our hobby. We surley pay enough for it. At this point there is very little to push, because the stuff is that good. Don't loose the sight of the fact that weathered or accurate reproductions can still be accurate and "look cool". Once you realize that you will move from "Unreal" to "Get Real", we are waiting with open arms for you to come aboard..Alex

 

[Firebat]

I'm sure Alex is available to do the weathering for the right price

To make the "Unreal" crowd see the light. I would do it for free, you pay the shipping ...Alex

 

[bricoleur]

Dear Collectors;
I believe we can not discuss about the "real" colours of German armour. I went several times to Bovington and you see there a lot of private owned stuff. Every owner will paint his private piece in the colours he loves the most.
I have seen there the same splinter camo in at least four different yellow basetones, going from desert yellow to the greenish K&C yellow. Same for the brown colour: deep red brown, brick red and almost brownish black...
Ask the collectors in Bovington about the "real" colours... you get five different answers ans nobody has seen the "real" colours... (except the few colour propaganda films, made by the Germans in "no real" situations, nothing is left) The German army has received paint from at least ten different factories. The Tiger yellow was in most of the cases not the same as the Panther yellow as another company was delivering the paint for the panther production. In the field, tank commanders made there own "paintings", depending from what they could get and how nature was developing in the time of the year. My father has seen a lot of German armour in Belgium and France in that days and he always told me that from 1943 on, all the German halftracks and armour were almost completely covered by camo nets, bushes, leaves, mud and all kind of materials. He believes the colour scheme was no longer relevant. IMO the only "real" armour is the weathered edition, no matter what colours were used and mixed. Do not rely to much on the books and colour plates, made AFTER the war. The artist is giving you his colourset or he is refering to other artwork. My dad has seen several original panthers, just after the battle of the bulge before those pieces were dismantled. On all the panthers, almost 50% of the original paint was burned away (shell impact)
or simply rusted. That's why I love the heavy weathered models, no matter what colour is used.
Eddy

 

[Pierre]

Hi Eddy,

Thanks for your testimony, I really appreciate to learn something about that aspect of the history of WWII.

Pierre.