Household Cavalry (Royal Horse Guards) (2 Viewers)

[thebritfarmer]

As some of you may know I want to do the band of the RHG circa 1953.

I am getting conflicting info maybe because I am dumb or looking at the wrong sites.

Currently I am trying to work on the Music director, could I just use trooper on a horse with an arm replacement to one with a baton? or is he an officer and needs the RHG cloth on his horse?

Next re the formations (the link below doesn't mention trumpeters on greys behind the drumhorse) But this pic clearly shows them and the other doesn't (although there are greys behind the band, what are they?)


http://www.householdcavalry.info/bandform.html#brm

 

[thebritfarmer]

Now this next pic shows the trumpeters

but the DoM has no cloth on his horse, but in one of the pics above the DoM does have one.


Is it all to confusing, should I just kill myself now ?

 

[johnnybach]

Yes - it's confusing!

No - don't s**t yourself yet!

I think of it like this:

They do it on purpose - just to confuse us!

No two parades are JUST the same.

There's State Dress (Gold frocks) - when Royalty are around.
Review Order (fancy hats) When they're not - but tourists are
The other stuff ( s**t order) when they can't be ar**d to get dressed.

Fortunately, we have an expert to help ( He's a Samaritan - in disguise) who is often enigmatic - but will help when trouble becons.

Is it a plane - NO!
Is it a train - NO!
Can he leap buildings in a single bound - Well, maybe

Does his name begin with M for Magic!

Your getting warmer!

WELL then ASK him. This is a old and complicated unit. And that's the way they like to keep it! The Director of Music IS an Officer ( they are there to tart things up - mostly, I think, for the tourists!).

Go with the bits you know - from photos. Remember that other photos may show them in uniforms worn when different folks are present - and for different reasons.

If you make-a-da-mistaka - remember - no-one died! A bit of paint can always correct it.

I know - 'cos I am that soldier, and your friend, so don't worry, it will all turn out right - and you will NEVER get to the bottom of Why the heck we do it!!!! Just do them one at a time - and you will be okay. Really.:salute::

All the best, jb

 

[thebritfarmer]

HAHA great post jb, perhaps I am taking it too literal. I have googled till I am blue on the RHG and there just isn't a photo of them at the 1953 Coronation of QE II

and then this photo shows the DoM with the saddle cloth could this be the massed band? do they usually play 4 across?

 

[Martin Tabony]

The first photo is RHG/D band returning from the Queens Birthday Parade (Trooping the Colour) Notice the Foot Guards at the back.
The second photo is the "Dinks" notice the eagle on the music case, but I think this is the Lord Mayor of Londons Parade.
The third photo is the band of The Life Guards, again at the Lord Mayors Parade.
Let my explain. On the restoration of Charles II in 1660 the crown was skint! The coronation was going to be an expensive do, so the Lord Mayor of London agreed to pay for the State Livery for the King's Household musicians, as long as he could use the kit and musicians for his own parties! Charles said fair enough, and ever since, which ever band is taking part in the parade wears the gold coats and jocky caps. It's also one of the best parades because we stop off at various places for a pint or three on the way back to barracks!
The bands of the Household Cavalry and the Foot Guard Drum Major's are not only classed as regimental musicians and drummers but are also considered as musicians to Her Majesty's Household, hence the Household (now State) Livery.
The Director of music is an officer and although not a Household musician. As with all Household Cavalry officers he is "of the Queens household". This is signified by the gold aiguelett on the right shoulder.
In the presence of Her Majesty, all Household Cavalry officers wear "Review Order". That is gold cross and sword belts, shabraque with sheepskin and RHG/D horses have a throat plume (beard).
When Her Majesty is not present the officers wear "Guard Order". White belts,L.G. wear black bearskin sadle cover, RHG/D wear black sheepskin and nt beard.
Remember no eagle on the left arm. That came from the Royals on the amalgimation in 1969.
I hope that clears things up a bit.
I forgot to mention in the second photo, they are the copper rehersal drums, not the silver drums. Thats why they are completly covered by the drum banners
Martin

 

[Martin Tabony]

HAHA great post jb, perhaps I am taking it too literal. I have googled till I am blue on the RHG and there just isn't a photo of them at the 1953 Coronation of QE II

and then this photo shows the DoM with the saddle cloth could this be the massed band? do they usually play 4 across?

That is "Mounted Review Order" as worn for Her Majesty but I think thats just one band with two drum horses . I know you can't see the other drum horse but the possition of the D of M would indicate it.
RHG/D shabraque

 

[Martin Tabony]

Here's an interesting picture, the caption said that he will lead the band at the coronation. Notice the drummer is still wearing the cypher for George VI.

Martin

 

[Martin Tabony]

Don't know what happend there!

 

[thebritfarmer]

Martin,

Thanks for your input. I a slowly starting to understand how everything works.

So I would be sort of looking at a figure like this for the DoM?

and would I need the trumpeters? and 4 across for the parade?

 

[thebritfarmer]

Here's an interesting picture, the caption said that he will lead the band at the coronation. Notice the drummer is still wearing the cypher for George VI.

Martin

Well that could put a spanner in the works !!! Although I check LIFE and that photo was taken in 1951 so maybe not. Hmmmm

Thanks Martin. Your help is most appreciated.

 

[trooper]

Martin,

Thanks for your input. I a slowly starting to understand how everything works.

So I would be sort of looking at a figure like this for the DoM?

and would I need the trumpeters? and 4 across for the parade?

Not quite like that, the DOM does not wear the cuirasse. Incidently the rear rank of the bands mounted on greys are trumpeters doubling up as clarinetists. Recommend two books for you, "The Household Cavalry Regiment" by Roy Manser ISBN 85524 235 3, and "Music in State Clothing" by G.R. Lawn ISBN 0 85052 454 7. Also the question of four trumpeters behind the drum horse this occurs at shows when the trumpeters appear without the band. Trooper

 

[Martin Tabony]

Not quite like that, the DOM does not wear the cuirasse. Incidently the rear rank of the bands mounted on greys are trumpeters doubling up as clarinetists. Recommend two books for you, "The Household Cavalry Regiment" by Roy Manser ISBN 85524 235 3, and "Music in State Clothing" by G.R. Lawn ISBN 0 85052 454 7. Also the question of four trumpeters behind the drum horse this occurs at shows when the trumpeters appear without the band. Trooper

The horses are trumpeters horses but the clarinetists aren't necessarily trumpeters! Think of a trumpeter like a drummer. It is a signaling instrument so , the Trumpet Major and trumpeters are from the individual troops not the band. Although the musician should be able to play a silver trumpet, at a push they some times have to stand in for a guard if all of the trumpeters are on another duty (around rememberence is busy for trumpeters!). I know the musician should be technicaly better with the trumpet but thats not usually the case especially with the Royal Salute! Plus they spend the whole twenty four hours winging if they can't swan around in civvies.^&grin
The four trumpeters do parade behind the drum horse without the band but as can be seen in the posted pictures they also parade with the band but not useually on state occasions. Then they are doing there proper job as part of the Standard Party and officer's trumpeters.
Martin

 

[Martin Tabony]

The D of M wears this order of dress but obviously mounted!

 

[johnnybach]

And if the uniforms weren't so darned good to look at - we would all probably chuck 'em in a bin - and paint something less complicated, anyway!

Cracking pictures though %^V- I'm nicking the lot. johnnybach

 

[Martin Tabony]

Back views

 

[thebritfarmer]

Where is the gun at the head smiley ^&grin:salute::

Martin & Trooper you guys are the best !!! (I will check those books out for sure)Thanks for your information and helping me understand a little bit more than before. Martin you guys need a medal just to remember what to wear play and where to parade!! I'd probably end up on parade at the wrong place in my boxers with a cuirass and on a drumhorse ^&grin^&grin

Ok think I got it now for my DoM and not trumpeters except for the Sovereigns escort.

jb can you post a pic of your Asset Blues & Royals officer for me when you have time. Thanks


I heard of a film called "The Queen is Crowned" it is the televised event of the 1953 coronation. Watched it on youtube last night looking for clues. NOPE no to be found. I did find out other interesting tidbits of info though that will help in the future.

Funny thing.....Britains made the dismounted lifeguard band but in my reference of the parade layout I can't see them mentioned, yet the RHG are mentioned in the parade layout and I can't find any further documentation.

Phew it's all too much shame I am work as that requires a stiff brandy!!

 

[thebritfarmer]

Placed an order for

"Music in State Clothing" by G.R. Lawn

Having abit more trouble locating the other, will keep my eyes peeled.





:salute::

 

[Martin Tabony]

Placed an order for

"Music in State Clothing" by G.R. Lawn

Having abit more trouble locating the other, will keep my eyes peeled.





:salute::

George Lawn, what a nice bloke, even though he keeps taking the mick out of me for being a foot guard! When he did his basic the Household Cavalry trained seperatly to everyone else but from 1970 all guards regiments trained together at the Guards Depot Pirbright.
As to the wrong uniform on a drum horse, you should see Christmas Day guard mount. Usualy the best turned out trooper gets the best stag on guard. It goes First, second, third and fourth "box sentry", then first, second and third "main gate" and lastly first, second and third "chicks" or guard room sentry. On Christmas Day the best fancy dress wins the stag! the guard mounts half an hour early, in order to have time to change back into the proper uniform but there's always a bit of tinsel left on the horses kit, you don't usually see a lot of people about on that morning.

Martin

 

[johnnybach]

And to think - whilst all these fancy dress parties were going on (Fancy Dress? they're in it all of the time!), the other half of the army were trying to get their heads down in a tent in the middle of Lunenburg B******ing Heath - eating dog biscuits in the pouring rain - and arguing over whose turn it was to have a lend of the torch - so they could fill out a form asking for permission to buy themselves out - and then the only biro stopped writing!!

Phew! - feel a lot better now - think I'll have a lie down.

Cor - wot a lark eh? Soldiers? - I've shot 'em. johnnybach:salute::

 

[Martin Tabony]

And to think - whilst all these fancy dress parties were going on (Fancy Dress? they're in it all of the time!), the other half of the army were trying to get their heads down in a tent in the middle of Lunenburg B******ing Heath - eating dog biscuits in the pouring rain - and arguing over whose turn it was to have a lend of the torch - so they could fill out a form asking for permission to buy themselves out - and then the only biro stopped writing!!

Phew! - feel a lot better now - think I'll have a lie down.

Cor - wot a lark eh? Soldiers? - I've shot 'em. johnnybach:salute::

I know, I've driven a Chieftain MBT over Soltau Plain in the dead of winter with four foot of snow on the ground. Opening up the engine decks so you can warm your feet on the brake shoes. Why do you think I spent most of my time on public duties. It's hard work but at least there's heating!

Martin