Houston Texas College Shooting (2 Viewers)

[Scott]

I quite agree with your thoughts. It is most unfortunate that tragic events are used for personal agendas that often have little relationship to the cause of the tragedy. Politics evolves but it does not really change.

Harper, I did let this become personal but I don't have an "agenda" if you meant me. I trust that you meant organizations pro 2nd Amendment or pro regulation.

I do own firearms and have my state's permit to carry above the usual Firearms ID.

There is a lot of bad information out there because of the recent string of shootings including cherry picked statistics. Perhaps many people just see 20 dead children and don't care about the minutia of what kind of firearms were used.

 

[tdubel]

Thanks for informing me on the subject on your end. You did imply that firearms owners would migrate away from more restrictive states and that wealth moves away as well. You did bring the subject up.

I have read recent statistics that such and such a firearm was used statistically less than hammers in murders. It's still an issue of all types of firearms used carelessly or criminally, and being even legally too available to the mentally ill.
The 2nd does have the "Well regulated militia" statement that entails responsibility that any armed unit has to have and that individuals must have.

Scott, I think my comment or its purpose was pretty much a snapshot of Maryland. But in general, wealth eventually leaves restriction and why not? Who the heck wants to pay more tax than they have to. For example, one year Maryland enacted a "millionaire's" tax, there are statistics that slammed the State in the subsequent year's tax collection, needless to say, an embarassed legislature quickly repealed it.

As for gun owners, I don't see where I ever condoned the non responsible use of firearms. I just do not want my own rights trampled on by knee jerks and personal agendas. IF I want to responsibly own a machine gun, I can and that should not change.

Tom

 

[PanzerAce1944]

Interesting Thread this, even if it has little to do with TS.......hope it continues for a wee while yet......??

That's what Chat Lounge threads are for................all topics of "reasonable" discussion

 

[Scott]

Scott, I think my comment or its purpose was pretty much a snapshot of Maryland. But in general, wealth eventually leaves restriction and why not? Who the heck wants to pay more tax than they have to. For example, one year Maryland enacted a "millionaire's" tax, there are statistics that slammed the State in the subsequent year's tax collection, needless to say, an embarassed legislature quickly repealed it.

As for gun owners, I don't see where I ever condoned the non responsible use of firearms. I just do not want my own rights trampled on by knee jerks and personal agendas. IF I want to responsibly own a machine gun, I can and that should not change.

Tom

Tom, on the latter subject I know you didn't condone that. There is currently a LOT of knee-jerkery on this subject beyond this forum. (I have also fired two privately owned fully automatic WW II weapons. Fun.) On the other subject, my concern is the power of wealth that is not accountable to the citizen over a representative government that IS accountable by election and petition. I have yet to see an example of "state's rights" in US history where the principle wasn't used to advance the power or "freedom" of a privileged or majority class in that state.

 

[NY Collector]

That's what Chat Lounge threads are for................all topics of "reasonable" discussion

Is that the Policy ?? If it is I find it silly. This is as you say a TOY SOLDIER FORUM.


-Frank

 

[Harper (aka Spitfrnd)]

Harper, I did let this become personal but I don't have an "agenda" if you meant me. I trust that you meant organizations pro 2nd Amendment or pro regulation.

I do own firearms and have my state's permit to carry above the usual Firearms ID.

There is a lot of bad information out there because of the recent string of shootings including cherry picked statistics. Perhaps many people just see 20 dead children and don't care about the minutia of what kind of firearms were used.

Well frankly I said nothing about you. There is more that enough evidence to demonstrate that those with anti firearm agendas are driving a significant part of this discussion and there it is really not debatable that they are using the recent tragic events for that purpose. If you have no agenda, then by definition I could not have been talking about you. To my simple way of thing, one great way to avoid making things personal is not to assume someone means you unless they make it clear or you ask first.

FWIW, I own firearms too, shot competitively as a kid and won a military marksmanship medal so we have some common ground to start from.

 

[Harper (aka Spitfrnd)]

Is that the Policy ?? If it is I find it silly. This is as you say a TOY SOLDIER FORUM.


-Frank

Well the best I can say is that there are many designated sub forums for the discussion of all aspect of collecting. This is a more general topic one and I find absolutely nothing silly about or wrong with that.

 

[Desertkiwi]

Well the best I can say is that there are many designated sub forums for the discussion of all aspect of collecting. This is a more general topic one and I find absolutely nothing silly about or wrong with that.

I'm with you mate, this thread is simply about some of the lads having a mature discussion about firearms.......I thought that was what the Chat Lounge was about........big fella's 'shooting the breeze' over just about anything......excuse the pun{sm4}

Regards

 

[Scott]

Well frankly I said nothing about you. There is more that enough evidence to demonstrate that those with anti firearm agendas are driving a significant part of this discussion and there it is really not debatable that they are using the recent tragic events for that purpose. If you have no agenda, then by definition I could not have been talking about you. To my simple way of thing, one great way to avoid making things personal is not to assume someone means you unless they make it clear or you ask first.

FWIW, I own firearms too, shot competitively as a kid and won a military marksmanship medal so we have some common ground to start from.

Thanks Harper. Just making sure.

 

[ChestersRonkonkomaNY]

Well having grown up hunting and fishing over 200 days a year from the age of 16 to 22 in NY state. I have this to state. NY has changed, IMO much for the worse. Here is a partial list of things you can not do around here that I used to do: ride 4 wheelers, ride dirt bikes, park your car to fish (without a permit), park your car anywhere at night (to do anything), fish outside of the town you live in, hunting opportunities are almost non-existent, play on public fields without a permit, go through a red light without a camera taking your picture( even if the road conditions are dangerous or you are rushing someone to a hospital and no one else is on the road) FOR FEAR OF BORING everyone I will end it here..... But in comparison for all this joy to life, I get to pay $20,000.00 in taxes on my house, $11,0000.00 in taxes on the 65 year old 1400 square foot rental house I bought and $12,000.00 in taxes on my 5000 square foot business building. I built my house on family property that I went pee on as a kid, and no it is not a mansion. People I have met that have the same house as me in Austin TX pay $5,000 and a guy I met from Oklahoma pays $1,200 a year for the same thing.
OH RIGHT, now I remember why I pay those taxes, "for the kids". Unfortunately my 2nd, 4th, and 5th grader came home on Dec 7 and I asked what is today. Dumb looks from one, Thursday answer from the other, but alas my 4th grader said "Pearl Harbor". I asked " did you learn that at school?" His reply was "no from Call Of Duty", at least video games are good for something.
So hopefully all of you who still live in a free state and by that I do not ONLY mean a free state where you "CAN STILL OWN ASSAULT WEAPONS" I say be careful what you wish for in improving your community and lifestyle. Government is always making things better (supposedly) but at what cost?

The following text is out of a letter I wrote to my state senator. No OFFENSE IS INTENDED to any Democrats outside of NY, as I realize the parties are different on issues in various states. When i finally leave NY I might just become a Democrat or whatever as long as I believe in the man and his principles. Quote " Dear Senator Flanagan, Just a note to let you know I have been a registered Republican for 25 plus years. After your YES vote on Governor Cuomo's gun ban I will no longer vote for you or any other Republican in this state. It is time to send yourself as well as the Republican party a massage. If we can not trust you to hold true to core Republican values than we might as well give the state to the Democrats. Hopefully this will teach The Republican National Committee to not let this type of disservice occur in another state. Anytime you would like to explain yourself feel free to call me at 631-738-6991. Thank you,
Chester J Pergan"

As a final note I add this to all of you in free states, do not let outsiders MOVE to your state and elect them to office. Not even as a dog catcher. These types will surely ruin your state just as they have mine.
Chester

 

[PanzerAce1944]

Is that the Policy ?? If it is I find it silly. This is as you say a TOY SOLDIER FORUM.


-Frank

I find the discussion about innocent people getting killed by firearms not silly in the least. Doing "NOTHING"about the issue and letting the
Carnage occur constantly is.....................OUTRAGEOUS......IMO of course

 

[Desertkiwi]

Hears a question for ya......what sort of vetting do you have to go through to own a firearm in the States? For example I presume to own a gun you have to have some sort of firearms licence? If this is the case how easy is it to obtain a licence or is it a case that under your US Constitution anyone can own a firearm?

Regards Toddy

 

[BLReed]

......what sort of vetting do you have to go through to own a firearm in the States? For example I presume to own a gun you have to have some sort of firearms licence? If this is the case how easy is it to obtain a licence or is it a case that under your US Constitution anyone can own a firearm?

It depends on the State. If you are that interested in laws that do not concern you I'll let you use Google.
Here I'll help with the basics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_the_United_States_by_state
Pay particular attention to this part: "However, state and local police departments are not legally obligated
to enforce federal gun law as per the U.S. Supreme Court's ruling in Printz v. United States."

I just purchased six Bushmaster M4 Type Patrol Mans Carbines, 7.62 caliber, with ten 30 round magazines
for each one, plus 10,000 rounds of ammunition. Also, two night scopes and four more on order. All legal.
As is everything else I own. And nothing is going to change. We've been through this many, many times.

 

[waynepoo]

It depends on the State. If you are that interested in laws that do not concern you I'll let you use Google.
Here I'll help with the basics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_the_United_States_by_state
Pay particular attention to this part: "However, state and local police departments are not legally obligated
to enforce federal gun law as per the U.S. Supreme Court's ruling in Printz v. United States."

I just purchased six Bushmaster M4 Type Patrol Mans Carbines, 7.62 caliber, with ten 30 round magazines
for each one, plus 10,000 rounds of ammunition. Also, two night scopes and four more on order. All legal.
As is everything else I own. And nothing is going to change. We've been through this many, many times.

You're right the laws in the U.S (or lack of them) are not my concern because I live in a country where the laws are such my neighbour can't go out and buy six military assault weapons just because they feel like it, thankfully.
Wayne.

 

[BLReed]

You're right the laws in the U.S (or lack of them) are not my concern because I live in a country where the laws are such my neighbour can't go out and buy six military assault weapons just because they feel like it, thankfully.
Wayne.

You better make sure your neighbors aren't allowed to have hammers or petrol either.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21182539

 

[Desertkiwi]

It depends on the State. If you are that interested in laws that do not concern you I'll let you use Google.
Here I'll help with the basics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_the_United_States_by_state
Pay particular attention to this part: "However, state and local police departments are not legally obligated
to enforce federal gun law as per the U.S. Supreme Court's ruling in Printz v. United States."

I just purchased six Bushmaster M4 Type Patrol Mans Carbines, 7.62 caliber, with ten 30 round magazines
for each one, plus 10,000 rounds of ammunition. Also, two night scopes and four more on order. All legal.
As is everything else I own. And nothing is going to change. We've been through this many, many times.

Cricky mate who sucked the cream out of your donut.......the tone of your response to a perfectly logical question/s kind of says it all really.......

.....my questions were neither rude or insulting and certainly weren't meant to offend, but were asked in an effort to help understand the problem/s the State's faces with all these shootings.

In short, I'm engaging in a mature adult discussion with fellow Forum members about firearms, nothing more......

Be thankful that people outside of the USA care about this issue.......in a round-about sort of way it effects as all.

As for telling us all how many firearms & ammo you've just purchsed.......again what more can I say......I'm definitely in Wayne's camp on this one.....phew.

 

[ChestersRonkonkomaNY]

I will refrain from commenting on opinions from Down Under. I also would be interested in the age of all those commenting on this subject? My guess would be mostly 50 plus, as it is human nature to tell other people what they should be able to do if that hobby/interest has passed you by. Anyone care to post their age and if they still have an interest in guns in general?

 

[tdubel]

I will refrain from commenting on opinions from Down Under. I also would be interested in the age of all those commenting on this subject? My guess would be mostly 50 plus, as it is human nature to tell other people what they should be able to do if that hobby/interest has passed you by. Anyone care to post their age and if they still have an interest in guns in general?

Hi<
I am 39 and agree with all of your posts. I also agree with BL Reed too.

NO OFFENSE to my friends on the other side of the world at all. I know you are trying to have a legitimate discussion.

One clarification, please understand the word - "assault weapon". There are many ways to use and misuse this word.

Bushmasters, AR 15's, Ruger Mini, SKS Semi - these are NOT assault weapons. These have been abused/misclassified by the American/World PRess and politicians to no end. These are truly SEMI-Automatic rifles that are used for target shooting. You CANNOT fire military grade ammo through them safely, they cannot handle it for the most part. Now, have criminals and insane idiots used them? YEs unfortunately.

An assault weapon is a Military Grade Fully Automatic weapon and they are HEAVILY regulated in the USA.

And honestly, I don't care what my neighbor owns, as long as they are following the law, it is their right to buy what they want. If you are not a criminal, you don't deserve to be treated like one and that is what our Constitution here protects.

As I have stated many times in this thread, the gun is not the problem and never will be. THe problem is always the human and quite frankly, gun regulation or not, the crimes would still occur. That fact has been static since the dawn of time. Right now, we have good ole emotional political theater going on over here on this side of the world and like most things, people lose sight of the facts when they jump into an emotional debate.

TD

 

[PanzerAce1944]

I will refrain from commenting on opinions from Down Under. I also would be interested in the age of all those commenting on this subject? My guess would be mostly 50 plus, as it is human nature to tell other people what they should be able to do if that hobby/interest has passed you by. Anyone care to post their age and if they still have an interest in guns in general?

I am 51 as of today, Love guns but not when nut cases use military grade semi automatic weapons to kill masses of innocent people. To answer the next question of what is considered a military grade type weapon........The .223 Bushmaster with a 30 round clip or 100 round drum style magazine. Any target shooter would be satisfied with a 10 round magazine for the sport of shooting. Killers wanting to take out as many people in the quickest amount of time want the high cap magazines to cut down on reload time. These guns do not have to be capable of firing on fully automatic mode. My M4 rifle in the Army had semi auto and 3 round burst only on it as full auto made it less controllable when fired full out.
These guns firing a very high velocity bullet shot in semi auto are extremely lethal when the shooter places his shots one at a time versus emptying out the magazine in 3 seconds or less.

..........Plain and simple. ^&cool

 

[Desertkiwi]

I will refrain from commenting on opinions from Down Under. I also would be interested in the age of all those commenting on this subject? My guess would be mostly 50 plus, as it is human nature to tell other people what they should be able to do if that hobby/interest has passed you by. Anyone care to post their age and if they still have an interest in guns in general?

To answer your question, I'm in my 40's and are very familiar and comfortable handling a variety of firearms. I don't currently own any, but use them in my proffesion, hence my interest on the topic.

I think it's safe to say this is a highly contentious issue, that understandably sparks a wide range of opinions and of course members are free to make comments as they see fit, so long as they are within the rules of the forum.......in saying that I was quite disturbed by the previous members response to my earlier question/s, who I might add did not answer any of them.

Kind Regards.