Interesting Times are Coming…” (1 Viewer)

[King & Country]

Hi Guys,

I enjoyed reading “History for the Ages” assessment of the present situation in the toy soldier world.

Whilst enjoying it I’m not sure that I necessarily agree with his conclusions…

From where I’m sitting I don’t see any companies dropping out of the race or reducing their output. Speaking for K&C we actually want to increase the number of items and choice.options for the collector in the coming year.

As for a resurgence in plastic… I too would not be surprised if some of us metal guys decided to “dip our toes” into that particular little pond!

“HFTA” does advise, and I totally agree, that any new “plastics” would have to be “well-sculpted”. After all what’s the point of spending all that money to produce a new line that is not well-sculpted.

He would also like to ensure that these new plastics would be “factory-painted to a high standard”. Whilst agreeing to the general idea… does “HFTA” not also realize that “high standard, factory painting” would dramatically increase the final cost. After all high standard factory painting would, in my experience, cost the same for a metal of a plastic toy soldier. Anyway just my thoughts… Hope no one is offended!

Best wishes,
Andy C.

 

[Mitch]

Sounds interesting a range of unpainted plastic versions of figures from K&C. Now, that would be the appeal for me (unpainted) and I am sure plenty of other guys interested in doing it your own way.

Not just cost of having these figures painted but, I think it would confuse to many of the ''metal'' only guys as we have seen in the debates about lighter vehicles recently.

Conte do it so, 30th scale plastics would be great. Now, when was that??
Mitch

 

[Sons of the desert]

No offense taken here. Glad to hear from you. I also like the idea of more choice and a increase of items released. From my stand point, I need to increase my Normandy/Arnhem fighting figures. Since I'm someone who joined the K&C ranks only a few years ago, I need to build up a nice fighting force. Hopefully we can see a reissue of some of your earlier fighting vehicles in possibly a late war camo scheme.

Sdkfz 222 or 231 for example.

 

[Mitch]

Sons of the desert...

Don't worry the releases are cyclical in nature and are always redone (though differently) at some stage its just about being patient.
Mitch

 

[Naps...just Naps]

Hi Guys,

I enjoyed reading “History for the Ages” assessment of the present situation in the toy soldier world.

Whilst enjoying it I’m not sure that I necessarily agree with his conclusions…

From where I’m sitting I don’t see any companies dropping out of the race or reducing their output. Speaking for K&C we actually want to increase the number of items and choice.options for the collector in the coming year.

As for a resurgence in plastic… I too would not be surprised if some of us metal guys decided to “dip our toes” into that particular little pond!

“HFTA” does advise, and I totally agree, that any new “plastics” would have to be “well-sculpted”. After all what’s the point of spending all that money to produce a new line that is not well-sculpted.

He would also like to ensure that these new plastics would be “factory-painted to a high standard”. Whilst agreeing to the general idea… does “HFTA” not also realize that “high standard, factory painting” would dramatically increase the final cost. After all high standard factory painting would, in my experience, cost the same for a metal of a plastic toy soldier. Anyway just my thoughts… Hope no one is offended!

Best wishes,
Andy C.

Very interesting........

Many moons ago, when I first discovered K&C, I sent an email asking if they would ever consider selling unpainted metal figures.
Mainly because I was short of cash and couldn't afford the volume of soldiers I wanted ready painted. I also enjoy painting.

The answer was no at the time but I thought it would be a good marketing move because it would also attract some new customers and business from painters and the guys that would like to have K&C soldiers in gloss. They could paint their own gloss soldiers.

If K&C are now considering the unpainted market my personal preference would be for unpainted metal figures rather than plastic.

However, if K&C do decide to dip their toes into the plastics market I would ask them to consider the use of rigid plastics and not the soft material that results in rifles which are so bent they look as though they can shoot around corners.

Victrix is one company that uses this rigid plastic but they seem more interested in producing war gaming size figures.
They produced one set of British infantry in something like 60mm which they haven't followed up on.
They paint up like a dream and can be converted to change poses.

K&C could hit another winner here if they want to sell unpainted.
It would suit the guys that create dioramas and need mass ranks of soldiers.
It would attract more buyers that don't have bags of surplus cash to spend on ready painted toy soldiers.
And it would attract guys that like to paint.

 

[HistoryfortheAges]

First, I'd like to say thanks to Andy for responding to my vision of the Toy Soldier future!

Yes, I think unpainted metal and both painted and unpainted plastic could play a role in future collecting. I think this may bring more collectors into the market who may then supplement their collections with some metal now and again when they can afford to.

Armies in Plastic uses a very good hard plastic that doesn't bend. This type of plastic should be explored if K&C chooses to "dip its toe" in this arena!

 

[Mitch]

Did I miss the mention of unpainted metal? I think this was about plastic and the future of dipped toes. I would think it unlikely that unpainted metal would be made available plastic yes, as that is an attraction to new collector markets and existing collectors who would like the chance to paint figures but, don't see metal being released for a whole batch of reasons. I would be happy with a similar plastic to the old airfix and think airfix have dabbled recently with differing plastics to what they did release which, IMO was terrible. As long as they are packed decently these bend issues are not an issue.

But, I am sure K&C will know what plastic to use should they, no when, they start to make plastic
Mitch

 

[Naps...just Naps]

Did I miss the mention of unpainted metal? I think this was about plastic and the future of dipped toes.
I would think it unlikely that unpainted metal would be made available plastic yes, as that is an attraction to new collector markets and existing collectors who would like the chance to paint figures but, don't see metal being released for a whole batch of reasons.
I would be happy with a similar plastic to the old airfix and think airfix have dabbled recently with differing plastics to what they did release which, IMO was terrible. As long as they are packed decently these bend issues are not an issue.

But, I am sure K&C will know what plastic to use should they, no when, they start to make plastic.


Mitch

Mitch,
I mentioned metal because I was referring to an email I had sent to K&C about unpainted soldiers. K&C didn't mention metal I did.

IMO Airfix plastic toy soldiers were awful to paint.
I have painted thousands of plastic toy soldiers in all scales and the quality and the rigidity of the plastic is crucial to a good paint finish.
If the plastic is a soft variety it not only bends in the packaging it is also likely to bend after you have painted it and the paint then flakes off.
Airfix did use a different type of plastic for their 54mm model soldier kits which was harder but still not brilliant quality.

I'm sure K&C, like any manufacturer, appreciate hints and advice about a market and material they do not have much previous experience in and the plastic Victrix use is rigid and, in my opinion, ideal for painting and is the way to go.

I'm looking forward to K&C's first foray into this market. I'm sure it will be very successful.

Paul

 

[HistoryfortheAges]

I only mentioned unpainted metal because of a recent post. I don't believe, in K&C's case, that it would be the way to go. Definitely, painted or unpainted plastic or both would be a viable option.

Some form of hard plastic would be the way to go for K&C, IMHO. It would fit in better with their metal figures, if collectors decide on a mix for dioramas, IMHO.

 

[The Military Workshop]

Part of History's post was :

"I wouldn't be surprised if we see K&C and some of the other "metal" makers begin producing plastic like Conte does".

I do not know when it was but I think the last Conte plastic set was a while ago. Perhaps somebody knows (the Spartans 2 years ago ?).

I do recall Conte once explaining the production costs to do a boxed set of figures and if I remember it right it was US$100,000 ! I do noty know how many boxes that would involve. I am pretty sure this was mentioned on his web page but not sure if still there.

I do not think painted plastic would be viable. Always loved the Timpo figures and still have mine from almost 40 years ago. Some boxed sets of King and Country plastic might work but I think could be expensive to get the economy of scale. Could be something for the Dads to buy for their sons.

Won't be holding my breath for the K&C plastic range.

Regards
Brett

 

[Peter Reuss]

Won't be holding my breath for the K&C plastic range.

Regards
Brett

On the other hand, there are a lot of smaller plastic manufacturers out there. If they can do it, why couldn't someone with the resources and dealer base of K&C do it?

 

[The Military Workshop]

Peter,
Don't get me wrong I would sell them if they were available. Lets start with Light Horse !!!

Perhaps some Germans V Allies (North Africa for me) and some Brits v French Naps.

Might be worth Andy doing the maths at least. He has plenty of figures already to choose from.

Regards
Brett

 

[jazzeum]

As I read Andy's post, he does not say, explicitly or impliedly, that he will do unpainted or painted plastics, just that plastics will be done.

As far as unpainted metal, the FOB series was originally going to be an unpainted metal series but after hearing how many collectors were interested in buying FOB, he decided to issue painted versions.

 

[Mitch]

Naps...

I found that once primed the older airfix figures were a good paint and the results were the same. I have heard some bad reviews but, not had that problem with some of the ones I have painted.

Jazzeum...

with the expense part of figure painting I implied it would be a consideration to release unpainted plastics. I think it would be a good idea and, it works well for other company's so, could not see it doing otherwise with K&C and, has been mentioned with the infrastructure K&C have it would not be a difficult transition

I just think its a great idea and would like quality releases that were unpainted.
Mitch

 

[Gideon]

I thought plastics wasn't of any interest to Andy. He'd said as much in a number of q/a sessions.

 

[Rutledge]

I thought plastics wasn't of any interest to Andy. He'd said as much in a number of q/a sessions.

As times change sometimes perspectives change.

Early in my career I worked for a large "beverage company" based here in Atlanta. This was some time before the internet age. I can remember a senior executive in charge of strategic planning stating, quite emphatically, that this beverage company would NEVER, EVER be in the bottled water business.

Fast forward to now: the Executive is long gone and the beverage company sells lots of bottled water.

Companies must adapt to changing times. Now I have no idea why K&C would or would not produce plastics. I just know that in the pursuit of profiit, growth & survival many things are possible, including those which may have been viewed as unattractive in the past.

 

[Mitch]

I think his answer is in the post title. Seems now nothing is ruled in or out and thats always a good option
Mitch

 

[Cyber Field Marshall]

For business survival, growth etc K&C have pursued the innovative strategy of releasing many consistently improving quality product lines at considerable depth while maintaining their traditional scale and building material. In the future it doesn't seem inconceivable to me that they try different scales or material. So plastics or smaller scales that are cheaper might grab a whole new market, the question would be whether that would be profitable over time to make it a worthwhile venture. I'm sure I read somewhere in K&C's history that they had flirted with the Japanese market for smaller scale pieces. Perhaps a joint venture (like their Del Prado alliance) or a takeover could be in the cards. Imagine K&C FL line! Its so fun playing armchair CEO! Personally I think K&C would need to really think about their brand and what it stands for, if that gets too diluted and they could become the "jack of all trades, master of none". A little niche focus is a good thing. Having said all that from a collectors point of view, if the quality was there I'd be very interested in a "Diet K&C" version of its products. Buying these plastics or smaller scale pieces for younger collectors would be cool. Save the expensive stuff for Daddy!

 

[The Military Workshop]

Actually plastics might not be a bad idea. Think of how many children some K&C collectors might have in their family or know and could buy them as gifts for.
Cost could be a major factor and quantity needed to sell for breakeven would be major problem.

 

[Mitch]

I think a move into plastic would be a great idea it may upset some of the traditionalist K&C collectors who like the status quo (Now go away those who see this as a label or anything like that.. just look at some responses to repaints etc to see what I mean) I cannot see K&C not getting it sorted with cost etc as it should not be too hard to do with the experience they have.

Its already being done by Conte and, would as has been stated allow younger collectors to get into the hobby and allow them to own K&C which, may ensure a core of collectors for the future. It is indeed interesting times and not surprised at all to see such comments coming from K&C. I suppose its how he is still in business nearly three decades later.

Plus I have been after unpainted K&C for a while
Mitch