Investing/Collecting and Vice Versa (1 Viewer)

[nasirkasmani]

Yes lets hope only a true collector is able to obtain one of these sets.

Perhaps someone can devise a test......something simple yet complex

There must be a way to identify the true collector!

Since these sets have little value in the secondary market.....one might

think only the tru-collectors would be buying them.

Just a thought.

If the uproar regarding the Figarti camo V2 rocket on Ebay is any indication, I think the first person who list this on ebay will be getting quite a lynching.

When the time comes, i agree that its within his legal rights, but whether its ethical is one thing.

 

[Njja]

Re: Open Letter

Well, I had one myself which did not fit into my collection and I sold for $250.

One just sold for $379 and the same seller has one of each style again on

Ebay. That means he had at least $600 tied up in these which is a nice chunk

of change.

It certainly doesn't matter one bit to me how many he bought, or what he

does with them.....its his dough.

I have been collecting for 30+ years now, and I must admit the toy soldier

collectors are a unique bunch. In no other field I am involved in do they feel

they have a right to get involved in each others business.

Train guys are usually a burly cantankerous lot, very competitive and out for

the buy! You stick your nose in their business, or try and tell them what to do

ha! I would pay to see that.

Most of the other fields are to competitive, each person or small group

keeping to themselves, always with their eye on the prize.

Me, I enjoy the hunt probably more then the actual item. I often spend

hours and hours on research, sometimes months or even years tracking down

the items, then on to the deal. Sometimes its quick and easy, sometimes a

long drawn out affair, occasionally a dead end.

The deal often can enhance the piece or diminish it. Buy it right and it

becomes a story......pay to much, or purchase a restored or re-worked piece

and it becomes a lesson.

I have a couple of basic rules:

1. I don't concern myself with what the other folks are doing.

2. I don't live in the past, once a deal is done its history.....forget about it.

I have had more wonderful finds then I deserve.......and I have made more

mistakes then I care to remember but it was all great fun.

To me thats collecting.

 

[nasirkasmani]

Re: Open Letter

Well, I had one myself which did not fit into my collection and I sold for $250.

One just sold for $379 and the same seller has one of each style again on

Ebay. That means he had at least $600 tied up in these which is a nice chunk

of change.

It certainly doesn't matter one bit to me how many he bought, or what he

does with them.....its his dough.

I have been collecting for 30+ years now, and I must admit the toy soldier

collectors are a unique bunch. In no other field I am involved in do they feel

they have a right to get involved in each others business.

Train guys are usually a burly cantankerous lot, very competitive and out for

the buy! You stick your nose in their business, or try and tell them what to do

ha! I would pay to see that.

Most of the other fields are to competitive, each person or small group

keeping to themselves, always with their eye on the prize.

Me, I enjoy the hunt probably more then the actual item. I often spend

hours and hours on research, sometimes months or even years tracking down

the items, then on to the deal. Sometimes its quick and easy, sometimes a

long drawn out affair, occasionally a dead end.

The deal often can enhance the piece or diminish it. Buy it right and it

becomes a story......pay to much, or purchase a restored or re-worked piece

and it becomes a lesson.

I have a couple of basic rules:

1. I don't concern myself with what the other folks are doing.

2. I don't live in the past, once a deal is done its history.....forget about it.

I have had more wonderful finds then I deserve.......and I have made more

mistakes then I care to remember but it was all great fun.

To me thats collecting.

i agree John, that's a great guideline to have, FUN as the main factor.

i did not intend this as a dig to you or IXEC, as my private messages with both you guys shows me that you guys are passionate collectors as well.

during my time collecting 1/6, i had a few pieces of retired items, which i sold off to fuel my HB jagdpanther and K&C pieces.

Sodding both you off would make me a hypocrite.

my peeve is at the speculators, people whose main aim is to scour the toy world and monopolized ALL the rare items, not to collect, but solely to make profit, be it Starwars, Transformers, K&C Egyptian Chariot, etc..

 

[Njja]

Re: Open Letter

Nasir:

Why no offense taken my friend. I always enjoy reading your comments,

and look forward to your input.

I have enjoyed being a collector myself, from the first time I stumbled upon

some Lionel Trains in an obscure shop in N.J. back in the early 1970's.

There were no books for reference, or price guides to consult. We made up

all the rules as we went along! I remember after a year or so I was partners

in the little shop I mentioned. One of our customers Eddie used to come in

and haggle with us for hours at a time. One saturday afternoon he made a

deal with my partner John.

John was a personable savy guy, an expert as it was on pre-war trains.

Eddie was a real character a heavy equiptment operator.....he was a sharpie!

They make the deal Eddie trading John an operating switch tower for a nice

engine. After they exchange items eddie quickly leaves the shop as John is

trying to get the tower to operate Finally John takes it apart to find a

large block of clay inside.......instead of the motor

Thats train collecting up in Jersey

 

[Vezzolf]

Re: Open Letter

Nasir:

Why no offense taken my friend. I always enjoy reading your comments,

and look forward to your input.

I have enjoyed being a collector myself, from the first time I stumbled upon

some Lionel Trains in an obscure shop in N.J. back in the early 1970's.

There were no books for reference, or price guides to consult. We made up

all the rules as we went along! I remember after a year or so I was partners

in the little shop I mentioned. One of our customers Eddie used to come in

and haggle with us for hours at a time. One saturday afternoon he made a

deal with my partner John.

John was a personable savy guy, an expert as it was on pre-war trains.

Eddie was a real character a heavy equiptment operator.....he was a sharpie!

They make the deal Eddie trading John an operating switch tower for a nice

engine. After they exchange items eddie quickly leaves the shop as John is

trying to get the tower to operate Finally John takes it apart to find a

large block of clay inside.......instead of the motor

Thats train collecting up in Jersey

I collected O gauge for quite a few years and I am also originally from New Jersey (Hoboken to be exact)......In Jersey honest folks have a way of dealing with the "eddie types" you describe......I assume you saw the movie "The Hustler"......fast eddie didn"t shoot pool for some time if you recall........

 

[Njja]

Re: Open Letter

In the early days 1970's up in Jersey nearly everyone had something up their

sleve Lots of us had ads in the papers, we all attended shows on the

weekends....it was like the old land rush days. You never knew what you were

going to run across or how much it was worth.

Most of us bought items during the week (in the evenings) then went to the

shows on Sunday mornings to recover the money we spent during the week.

You kept the items you liked, and sold the rest.....but often we had no idea

what we were selling.

As time went by we obtained catalogs from buys and using these we were

able to determine when items were made, and for how long.

Of course there were still some shops around with inventory.....but since

Lionel went out of business in 1964 by the early 1970's most of their business

had fallen off, those that hung on were eventually sitting on goal mines.

By the time we had our Antique Train Shop in Dunellen, I had a great contact

in Linden.....an original Lionel Dealer whose younger brother had taken over

the business. This fellow was a retired baker in his late 50's who was now

doing a mail order business out of this old toy shop. I would go there for parts

and he was a real trip!

First he would want to see the item I needed parts for......which he would

try to buy from me.....and find out how I got it. Then he would refuse to look

for the parts I needed until I went and got him coffee & donuts

At first he would give me 95% of what I needed requiring me to come back...

but he always gave me a goodie......say a brand new catalog of my choice...a

1956, or 1957 or what ever. The next week I would be back with another

parts list, more coffee and donuts. I would get the part I needed for last

week and another 95% of what I needed + another catalog.

One day he sent me to Madison Hardware in NYC.........WOW!

We had never heard about Madison Hardware then.......and who wanted to

go to NYC for some parts......but he insisted I go.

I will never forget the experience......a tiny store front in a seedy area of

lower Manhattan. The window displays with unkept and dirty with a weird

assortment of hammers, tape measures and a key display........but there

was an Authorized Lionel Dealer sign over the door

When you went inside you were SHOCKED! The right hand wall was 3 stories

high with shelves all the way up and every train set you ever heard of

displayed. State Sets, Blue Comets, Congressional Sets.....all dustys from

sitting there for decades

Walking to the back (where numerious customers were gathered) it was like

a courtoom. You stood behind a wooden railing and looked up at a counter

maybe 6 feet above where two old men were holding court. They had 2 or 3

runners behind them in a large work space with slightly visible stairs leading to

another level not visible.

"Okay....whataya need" they would yell pointing to the next person in line...

First timers would usually be struck dumb. "Well"?..........."Ahh I have a list...

the newest customer would say" the response might be....."I don't have time

to read no list.....tell me what you want......Or Get Out"!

A fellow ahead of me told them what he wanted......then asked How Much...

you could feel the tension in the air....."You see all these people? You expect

me to figure out how much these items cost?......Get out"! said the old

fellow. A person along side me cautioned....."Just have your list ready.....

prices are reasonable"

Finally my turn came.....I handed my list to one of the runners........a few

minutes later one of the old fellows had my bag of items. He looked at me

and said "Where you from".......I said Jersey....."Who sent Ya"? ......I said

ah Lou.....from Linden Hobb......."Yeah, I know Lou.... tell him I said hey....

$13.50 pay the cashier"

What a relief......I had $20....the list could easily have cost me $50.....well

that was Madison Hardware what an adventure!

Tom Snyder the famous news caster used to shop there, along with lots of

other famous train collectors......its gone now hauled off lock stock and barrel

all 7 of their loft warehouses.....the storefront doorframe and all and the

complete interior. For many of us, a visit was something you will never

forget!

 

[theBaron]

Re: Open Letter

...the toy soldier collectors are a unique bunch...

I agree with you, but I think these charactistics are true throughout the antiques and collectibles world.

I feel sorry for the younger guys whose main experience is the Internet, and shows. They don't know the colorful people you meet at the flea markets, or in antique shops in out-of-the-way or unexpected places, or the people who you see at real live auctions.

Certainly is a colorful world, and never a dull moment, the collecting hobby!

 

[Combat]

Re: Open Letter

Those are interesting and informative stories, but they do sort of highlight how those involved in this hobby come at it from different perspectives. The notion of hussling around making deals to buy low and sell high is not an enticement to me. Frankly, it sounds like a major headache for a small gain that would diminish my enjoyment. That doesn't mean there is anything wrong with it and the fact that some do it can sometimes benefit collectors looking for a rare item.

I don't have a major beef with any speculator mostly because I have always been able to obtain what I want from a dealer just by letting them know in advance to hold an item for me. If that changed, and items were sold out before I even had a chance to pre-order, then I might change my mind. However, nothing like that has happened to me yet - good dealers like George are accommodating to their customers and honestly most "limited" editions seem to be available for months or years. The Figarti V-2 is perhaps the only major item to sell out quickly this year and I got both of those by pre-ordering them. Items are limited for a purpose - to drive demand - so my best advice is if you are a collector and intend to purchase a limited item you should give your dealer a call and let them know in advance. Then you don't have to worry about the secondary market.

 

[Warrior]

Re: Open Letter

"Its also quite humorous when you take one look at Ebay. There are almost more collectors/speculators/dealer/investors/exterminators....whatever selling King & Country on Ebay then authorized world wide dealers.

One has to wonder where all these people came from.....and who they are.

Maybe we can get them to all wear funny hats"

John,
Of all the comments written and said about the K & C "dealers" on Ebay, this is BY FAR the most comical thing I've ever seen.

Wish I could fit it all on a tee shirt, I'd wear it to every show.

It's staggering when you see some of their Ebay feedback and the HUNDREDS of items they peddle on Ebay, one can only imagine how much product they are sitting on waiting in the wings to be sold at a huge profit; if and when the bottom falls out of the secondary market (as a long time collector of many things, you know that train is coming down the tracks at some point, it always does), can't wait to see the look on the wives face, think back to my frying pan analogy.

I believe in the Italian North End here in Boston and on the mean streets of New Jersey where Tony Soprano is from, they call these mooks "Wannabe's"......................

 

[Njja]

Re: Open Letter

Geogre......It would seem we have a meeting of the minds!

If a person truely was a collector he would only buy what he likes, and if he

had an extra piece or two it would always have value for display on a diorama

or to trade with another collector.

These people seem to have made capital investments.....and best of luck to

them all.

Reminds me of the numerious train guys that plunked down $5K to become

dealers then fought it out to dump the stuff they bought to recover the

money

You are also correct trains are in a slump......the current generation has little

interest in them. Even my daughter who grew up with them in my dens has

little interest......other then to decorate with the items I have given

her.

I'm holding out hope for the grandaughter

 

[Capitolron]

Re: Open Letter

I wasn't going to get in on this again - but, I wanted to respond on my mode of collecting. This may give insight on how I can have such a big collection spanning my office to my home - and still be active on Ebay.

I have two major paths on how I deal with my collection:

1) I buy things I like and it it is something that is very cool or a limited edition - I buy an extra to sell down the road to make up for the item I bought and to make addition $$$ to be reinvested in my next purchase when the other item is sold. It is a way for the hobby to pay for a part of itself and its fun.

2) I regularly will sell a range or figures that I have in a diorama when I am ready to put something new in or just tried of those figures. I have some figures that i would never sell and I have others if they can sell for extra bucks - Boom - they are gone and I am off to buy something else with that money.

It is a way of changing my collection and reinvesting in the hobby. I dont hang on to all things forever - dont have the space for that and too many
new and great things always coming out. I have several Conte Sets sitting in boxes now because their resell value is lower than the retail value. I will just wait until someone wants to trade or I get additional room down the road. So King & Country offers me the chance to resell and reinvest.

If those reasons above tick people off - well - comment reserved. Those are my motives when it comes to Ebay.

As for the flap in general - Look I make plenty of money in my job to do this hobby - not trying to be snotty but, I spend more money in a year than what most spend in 10 years - and if i can find a way to reduce my personal capital going into something I enjoy - hey, I am there - remember I am a Capitalist

What interests me are the HYPOCRITES who jump on the bandwagon bashing Ebay - then go to Ebay to sell their stuff or even buy things.

The other point to make is the attitude of DEALERS who like to talk down to us collectors - like they belong to a club or something? Only We Can Sell - Attitude - please I guess thats the great thing about plenty of dealers to go around for guys - you can always trade up !

Ron

 

[tdubel]

Re: Open Letter

What interests me are the HYPOCRITES who jump on the bandwagon bashing Ebay - then go to Ebay to sell their stuff or even buy things.


Ron

Not sure who that is directed at, but I am happy to comment on my own viewpoints.

First and foremost, I am a collector. I have about 800 square feet of my basement that is floor to ceiling toy soldiers (never opened) as well as floor to celing dioramas, cases, etc of opened stuff. All makes from K&C, Britains (I probably have near complete every range of modern Britains including all Limited Editions), Trophy, Marlborough, Kingcast, Various Russian, John Eden, Honour Bound, Beau Geste, ATS, Tradition, Little Legion, Little Lead Soldiers, Conte, Steadfast, William HOcker, Frontline, Forward March, Corgi, William Wallace, Imrie Risley, Dorset, Figarti, NMA, etc etc, Point is, I have more toy soldiers than I know what the heck to do with. I have not even mentioned dvds, films, movie memorabilia, Franklin Mint, Danbury Mint, Plates, etc etc.

SO, I use Ebay both as a buyer and seller, hence why my feedback is in the 4000s, unfortunately, I buy more than sell!!!!!!

BUT, as for my thoughts on toy soldier sales, I eliminate duplicates because of space, or stuff I had to buy as part of a lot that I don't want, upgrades, etc.

NASIR::: I had 3 K&C Chariots, will be down to 1. Why did I have 3, well, 2 were part of a lot I wanted and I figured, what the heck, I could trade them, never did get a good trade, so they finally made it to ebay. 1 is sitting in my Egyptian Diorama. Does this make me a speculator or a hoarder of items??? Also, the price I put on it is what I am willing to sell it for, if it doesnt sell, so be it, I will simply keep it, no skin either way.

Now, as for complaining about ebay, well, I feel I have a right as much as a buyer or seller. I like to sell my older dvds on there as I am out of space, I have about 5 to 10 thousand of them, so I don't like the new Ebay changes in the media category. It is more economical to sell them to a used dvd retailer and I will do that.

I have also used Ebay to act as a seller for fellow board friends to help them get a better yield on what they were selling. That was kind of fun. Would I want to be a dealer full time< BIG NO, I could never part with rare pieces and I would lose too much money buying what I like. That said, if I ever want to become a dealer, I think I have enough Inventory to get started.

I don't believe I am a hypocrite. I use Ebay as a buying source for the rarity I cannot find elsewhere, I also use it as an outlet to get rid of unwanted items. I do not "speculate" on future value when making current purchasing decisions. I also don't buy from fellow collectors to resell. NOW, that is me and me only, I am casting NO stones at anyone on the forum so there is no reason for this to turn into a War.

I have simply stated my position because I find this discussion interesting.

 

[Warrior]

Re: Open Letter

"If a person truely was a collector he would only buy what he likes, and if he

had an extra piece or two it would always have value for display on a diorama

or to trade with another collector."

John,
You 1000% NAILED IT, thank you very much.

If a person truly was a collector, he wouldn't go out of his way to buy two or three or ten of something for the SOLE purpose of peddling them, he'd buy one, be happy with it and leave some for the next collector.

How can you enjoy a hobby if all your worried about and thinking about is "I wonder if this will double in value, should I buy two, three, ten? What should I do, what should I do?" Is that fun, I'd think not.

When said collector hears about say the AK 46 Rommel Horsch, does he say "Beautiful, can't wait to get one of those babies for my DAK display", or does he say "Ok, let's see, the Rommel Greif doubled in value overnight, so if this one is as sought after, let me think, do I want two to resell or three, gee I don't know, what should I do?"

Sorry, there's no fun in that.

Thanks for nailing it John.

 

[Njja]

Re: Open Letter

Not sure who that is directed at, but I am happy to comment on my own viewpoints.

I have simply stated my position because I find this discussion interesting.

Well........let me tell you exactly what I think.......good for you!

Only think I want to see is your collecting area/den/office/storefoom

Without the wife knowing itssss I have managed to spread my

collections into 6 rooms of the home

Of course I have sold the antique coke machines.....3 of 4, candy store oak

counter, 8 foot Oak bar & mirror & antique coke outdoor signs so it looks

like I have a reduced foot print

I'm in the Living room, Great room, master bedroom 20' wall unit, den......her

den, harley room......and garage

 

[jazzeum]

What's after the garage John?

 

[Njja]

What's after the garage John?

Well......according to the wife next step is out the door

She does put her foot down! I love motorcycles so a little while ago I

wanted a cool Harley Davidson Box trailer. The back wall folds down so you

can drive in, and they have a side door, tool lockers counter space like a

mini den I had one all picked out......and she hit the roof She told me

your not putting that that thing in my driveway!

So a couple of weeks later a Kendon diamond plate dual trailer accidentally

followed me home This is a cool trailer that holds 2, thousand lb bikes,

folds up and can be stored flat against a wall on heavy duty casters.

The wife comes home.....and I say got my trailer.......what I take her

out side......no trailer, I take her into my garage.......she looks around well

if I can't see if who cares

What a doll

 

[Cardigan600]

Re: Open Letter

Yo Troopers, sounds like a lot of jealousy here to me. Wheeling & Dealing is a way of life, and to me adds a touch of spice to collecting. If you can see an item is going to make you good money down the road, and you don't buy it you must be pretty dim. I have done this for years not in Toy Soldiers don't have the opportunity, these days unless something on ebay is going for a song, and I can snap it up and make good $$$$ on it, then it pays for a set I don't have I get the set for nothing, now that's good business and I am no business man. A couple of years back at an Antique fair spotted a Rockwell Kent plate a massive thing, got it for £20.00, sold on ebay for £300.00 boy I was over the moon. Just wish in my younger days could have foreseen the way the Toy market was going to turn out today ie: Old Britains sets going for nothing in 1960 and today fetch top Dollar, could have retired earlier. Dont tell me none of you guys wouldn't have bought as many sets as you could then, and put them away to make good $$$$ today. The old saying you have to speculate to accumulate, and by the way it goes both ways, lost out on quite a few deals over the years doing this, but win some lose some. Thats life man lol.
Bernard.

 

[Capitolron]

Re: Open Letter

Tom

My point about "bashing Ebay" wasn't meant on the Company (which I have agreed to many of the posts on here) - but, about people like you and me who use Ebay to Sell Toy Soldiers. There are plenty of people who sell TOY SOLDIERS on Ebay and Buy on Ebay who are on this forum.

And I agree with you - I don't worry about what I am buying - I what I like ! Then if I want to sell it - I sell it. Plain and Simple.

Ron

Not sure who that is directed at, but I am happy to comment on my own viewpoints.

First and foremost, I am a collector. I have about 800 square feet of my basement that is floor to ceiling toy soldiers (never opened) as well as floor to celing dioramas, cases, etc of opened stuff. All makes from K&C, Britains (I probably have near complete every range of modern Britains including all Limited Editions), Trophy, Marlborough, Kingcast, Various Russian, John Eden, Honour Bound, Beau Geste, ATS, Tradition, Little Legion, Little Lead Soldiers, Conte, Steadfast, William HOcker, Frontline, Forward March, Corgi, William Wallace, Imrie Risley, Dorset, Figarti, NMA, etc etc, Point is, I have more toy soldiers than I know what the heck to do with. I have not even mentioned dvds, films, movie memorabilia, Franklin Mint, Danbury Mint, Plates, etc etc.

SO, I use Ebay both as a buyer and seller, hence why my feedback is in the 4000s, unfortunately, I buy more than sell!!!!!!

BUT, as for my thoughts on toy soldier sales, I eliminate duplicates because of space, or stuff I had to buy as part of a lot that I don't want, upgrades, etc.

NASIR::: I had 3 K&C Chariots, will be down to 1. Why did I have 3, well, 2 were part of a lot I wanted and I figured, what the heck, I could trade them, never did get a good trade, so they finally made it to ebay. 1 is sitting in my Egyptian Diorama. Does this make me a speculator or a hoarder of items??? Also, the price I put on it is what I am willing to sell it for, if it doesnt sell, so be it, I will simply keep it, no skin either way.

Now, as for complaining about ebay, well, I feel I have a right as much as a buyer or seller. I like to sell my older dvds on there as I am out of space, I have about 5 to 10 thousand of them, so I don't like the new Ebay changes in the media category. It is more economical to sell them to a used dvd retailer and I will do that.

I have also used Ebay to act as a seller for fellow board friends to help them get a better yield on what they were selling. That was kind of fun. Would I want to be a dealer full time< BIG NO, I could never part with rare pieces and I would lose too much money buying what I like. That said, if I ever want to become a dealer, I think I have enough Inventory to get started.

I don't believe I am a hypocrite. I use Ebay as a buying source for the rarity I cannot find elsewhere, I also use it as an outlet to get rid of unwanted items. I do not "speculate" on future value when making current purchasing decisions. I also don't buy from fellow collectors to resell. NOW, that is me and me only, I am casting NO stones at anyone on the forum so there is no reason for this to turn into a War.

I have simply stated my position because I find this discussion interesting.

 

[Capitolron]

Re: Open Letter

BINGO !

Give the Man the Prize !!

My friend you have put your finger on it - JEALOUSY

How funny it is when dealers worry about the secondary market

I mean they already receive King & Country product at a dealer rate - then sell for a profit to run their business - I guess that profit margin is not enough - they must want more

I have said this before and I will say it again - King & Country Items come on the market - they are available to everyone - when someone buys a product its theirs - they have the right to do with all they want. Including selling it on Ebay. Andy - doesn't have a special rule for collectors with his products "Sorry - One per customer" - HAHAHAHAHA, can you image his response !

Yo Troopers, sounds like a lot of jealousy here to me. Wheeling & Dealing is a way of life, and to me adds a touch of spice to collecting. If you can see an item is going to make you good money down the road, and you don't buy it you must be pretty dim. I have done this for years not in Toy Soldiers don't have the opportunity, these days unless something on ebay is going for a song, and I can snap it up and make good $$$$ on it, then it pays for a set I don't have I get the set for nothing, now that's good business and I am no business man. A couple of years back at an Antique fair spotted a Rockwell Kent plate a massive thing, got it for £20.00, sold on ebay for £300.00 boy I was over the moon. Just wish in my younger days could have foreseen the way the Toy market was going to turn out today ie: Old Britains sets going for nothing in 1960 and today fetch top Dollar, could have retired earlier. Dont tell me none of you guys wouldn't have bought as many sets as you could then, and put them away to make good $$$$ today. The old saying you have to speculate to accumulate, and by the way it goes both ways, lost out on quite a few deals over the years doing this, but win some lose some. Thats life man lol.
Bernard.

 

[Spitfrnd]

Re: Open Letter

....
Now, as for complaining about ebay, well, I feel I have a right as much as a buyer or seller. I like to sell my older dvds on there as I am out of space, I have about 5 to 10 thousand of them, so I don't like the new Ebay changes in the media category. It is more economical to sell them to a used dvd retailer and I will do that.
.....

5 to 10 thousand dvds; makes my 4 to 500 seem trivial. How did you happen to come by so many and what kinds do you have?