Is the ecomony hurting your collecting choices??? (1 Viewer)

[Firebat]

With item costing up to $350 I can't see many young people coming into the hobby when for the same money you get muti function ps3 ,iPad and iphone witch for me look better buys

The market we are after are not necessarily young.....We are mostly after the 1/35th scale modelers, in addition to military artists. museum curators. military personel etc. whatever their age. But whether we are doing well or not right now.....The stuff still keeps on coming and that is what is taxing the wallet. With the relative new comers Thomas Gunn and First Legion and with The Collectors Showcase, Britains and Figarti doing a excellent job, in addition to good old K&C. The choices are staggering.

 

[6th Wisconsin]

4.) I am more alert to "unexpected opportunities" than in the past. For example, if I suddenly have an opportunity to purchase a desired, but difficult to find, item, I tend to do so quickly while the opportunity exists for the acquisition.

That is one advantage of the economy and perhaps a disadvantage too. I have been very alert to deals myself, which seem to be out there more than usual. I have been willing to spend a lot more now to buy batches of figures from fellow collectors when I get a chance when it will save me hundreds over the long run. I only do this with figures I would have bought anyway. The problem with that is I find it harder to budget and spend a lot more in the short term than I would like. I have to say I have had the opportunity to take advantage of some amazing deals.

 

[wayne556517]

With the Aussie dollar being so strong im buying as much as i can i also think there is alot of choice out there so maybe its not the economy its just that we can't all afford what we want because there is alot to want.{sm2}{sm2}{sm2}

 

[uksubs]

The market we are after are not necessarily young.....We are mostly after the 1/35th scale modelers, in addition to military artists. museum curators. military personel etc. whatever their age. But whether we are doing well or not right now.....The stuff still keeps on coming and that is what is taxing the wallet. With the relative new comers Thomas Gunn and First Legion and with The Collectors Showcase, Britains and Figarti doing a excellent job, in addition to good old K&C. The choices are staggering.

Can't see people who make models moving in to this market as part of the fun is making the kit and from from my only personal experience of taking my repainted 1/30 stuff for them to see there not impressed with the level of detail for the money , it may be different if I took a Figarti Owl witch is at the top end of 1/30 scale detail but think the price of this stuff is putting people of from buying , the Owl in the UK cost £350 witch is a lot of money a 1/32 He 111 model cost £ 50.00.! For me what sell the hobby is you can buy everything to make a diorama witch you can't do in other scales

 

[Mitch]

As you know I admire your work and the ethos behind it but, I have a lot of friends who are military modellers and, come from that background myself do you think you are attracting many from that genre into 1/30th hobby? I am a little unsure this will happen as the detail and variety ion thie hobby for 1/35th scale is far superior to anything that will ever be released or, realised by the 1/30th scale hobby IMO.

The main attraction for this hobby for many I have spoken with is the fact they are larger in scale and ready built and ready painted. Its difficult to attract new blood to a hobby which, whatever is said does not focus on the younger end of the scale. This hobby is for thoise who have a relatively good amount of disposable income.

For example, a revell Heinkel 111 is £60 a K&C Heinkel 111 same scale is £2500 and, without knocking K&C the detail in the kit is simply superb. This could also apply to Figarti and JJD for aircraft prices compared with other scales and detail. This precludes possibly 90% of our hobby members from the latter, let alone young people.

I have always been of the mind in relation to my own collection and spending that you just cannot have everything no matter who you are there is always something missing from the collection or, a piece you would want. It may be a good thing for all of us as collectors to evaluate what we can have and appreciate what we already have a little more.
Mitch

The market we are after are not necessarily young.....We are mostly after the 1/35th scale modelers, in addition to military artists. museum curators. military personel etc. whatever their age. But whether we are doing well or not right now.....The stuff still keeps on coming and that is what is taxing the wallet. With the relative new comers Thomas Gunn and First Legion and with The Collectors Showcase, Britains and Figarti doing a excellent job, in addition to good old K&C. The choices are staggering.

 

[johnnybach]

Good Question this. In my own case - the answer is NO - but maybe that's because I really only buy castings and paint them myself using Humbrol paints. This means that they are (mostly) reasonably priced - and slow to finish - so that my purchasing is governed by the speed I can paint each piece.

My "collecting choices" however, (part of the original question), have been hugely enhanced by joining this forum - and being exposed to a wealth of knowledge about the products available, mostly from the friends I have made since joining. I can now find hugely more choices and options of products available to people like me who like to paint their own.

As long as I don't learn how to paint any faster (unlikely!), then I will still manage to stay financially afloat. However, as others have alluded to, the choices available to me have been hugely enhanced by a weallth of producers and products waiting "out there" - and made available by the magic of the Internet - and the speed ( and stamina) of my Postie!^&grin

johnnybach

 

[ostrein]

Is the ecomony hurting your collecting choices?

Oh yes, it does. Since my employer closed their office here in Germany and moved to Ireland my purchasing habbits had to be revoked. Currently I focus on only a view figures each month - mainly retired figs. {sm2}

Oliver

 

[Firebat]

All I can say is Nick and I were avid 1/35th scale modelers, we are now both in our late 50's.....You couldn't pay me to ever build a model again....Hands are not as steady.....Eyesight failing....Patience waining for applying small pieces........The answer is.......... The going is slow, but we are converting some. Check the articles on us in Toy Soldier and Model Figure Magazine and in Armchair General. We address this issue well beyond the confines of this Forum.

We are so skeptical of mentioning our accomplishments here, because we get accused of bragging (Aggrandizing), that we now just quietly carry in with our mission. I can tell you from the feedback we get on our website it is working slowly but surely. Alex


BY THE WAY OUR WEBSITE IS DOWN FOR SOME WEIRD UNKNOWN REASON BUT WE ARE WORKING ON IT...THE GREAT CRUSADE IS STILL ON YOU TUBE.

 

[Napoleon1er]

With item costing up to $350 I can't see many young people coming into the hobby when for the same money you get muti function ps3 ,iPad and iphone witch for me look better buys

You don't notice me with an iPad, xBox, or other gadget. Other kids wonder why I spend my money on toy soldiers- I wonder what they will say they realize that there iPads will be worthless soon, when the next couple ones come out....
-Sandor

 

[uksubs]

You don't notice me with an iPad, xBox, or other gadget. Other kids wonder why I spend my money on toy soldiers- I wonder what they will say they realize that there iPads will be worthless soon, when the next couple ones come out....
-Sandor

I think your find that IPads and Iphones hold there money very well & that why people were sleeping over night to buy the latest phone this weekend + it not just about value it what would you get more use out of that counts but that down to the individual . A big thing for me as well if I buy soldiers then I'm the only one in my house who get enjoyment but a IPad or PS3 all the family does

 

[damian]

One would think that the poor economy will have an effect but the rate of new releases has not slowed up.
From my understanding both Figarti and K and C will be releasing a stuka in a number of variations so obviously both companies see a potential market there.
I do not understand it but it seems that the companies are still selling stuff and making reasonable profits.

 

[Currahee Chris]

I do not understand it but it seems that the companies are still selling stuff and making reasonable profits.

it does boggle the mind. Keynesian economics be darned!! {sm4} As you and I have discussed before, high end luxury homes are still selling rather well here in the states too. Not only do they seem to be making profits and the like, they all seem to be very healthy and stable- you would expect to see this sort of stability in industries of must have concerns like daycares, grocery chains, etc- not high end miniatures.

No, I think the true litmus test for the hobby and it's future will come in 20-30 years when our esteemed patriarchs (ie retired folk) of the hobby begin to run out of room or begin to take serious steps towards estate planning and the like. I think once the retiree money starts to dry up, things will start to break.

Either way, I find the end of the world predictions and people saying some manufacturers are circling down the drain as comical. Look at Britains- they have been in existence through 2 world wars- when the very material they built toy soldiers out of was being rationed!! This recession is a minor hump in comparison to those hurdles. The industry will expand and contract and you and I will see it through several of those cycles through our lifetimes.
I plan on donating my entire antiquities collection to the local high school for use in teaching Latin once I stand in the final formation. I can just imagine the solicitor reading my will staing "and my Roman, Greek and Persian toy soldiers are to be doanted to the Mechanicsburg High School--- toy soldiers, what's that?? " {sm4}

 

[lancer]

Of course the economy effects my collecting. Not being a millionaire (or a thousandaire for that matter), I have to watch every penny spent. This means, like most of you, I make careful selections of what I really want and let the secondary stuff go past. That said, I will give up my toy soldier collecting when "they" pry my last purchase from my cold, dead fingers. -- Al

 

[Currahee Chris]

I guess if it ever gets to deficit spending to keep restocking the troops and vehicles, I will probably have to call it a day!!

 

[bromhead]

The collection being relative,,mine is ok,,others ? a 69 corvette sold for almost half a million at auction here in dallas recently

 

[HistoryfortheAges]

As mentioned in a prior response, definitely the hobby will be tested again in coming years as most collectors seem to be near or over 50 years of age. However, I think it will be much sooner than 20 to 30 years when the next major slowdown will occur. We may be close to that next breaking point already, for many reasons... There are just not enough young people collecting and with prices as they are (i.e. almost double than what they were when I started collecting again 12 years ago), I think they will pursue other hobbies or options that cost less. I am not near retirement yet and my purchases are down 80%. Some of it has to do with space but, mainly I cannot justify paying the current prices anymore... {eek3} Glad I picked-up the bulk of my collection when prices were a lot, lot lower... As another poster mentioned, it's time to enjoy what I have...

 

[The Military Workshop]

Regarding converting modellers to TS collectors my experience is that it is very rare.

I started off selling figure kits and even produced some. About 6 years ago I would have had the biggest selection of figure kits in Oz (Andrea, Pegaso, Warriors, Royal, SNT, Dragon, SOL etc). I also sold armour kits. Those customers can admire TS figures and vehicles but they are not likely to buy them. For them the enjoyment is in the making of them and the sense of acheivement.

About 6 years ago I did a comparison. I asked a good armour modeller how much he would charge, including kit price (then A$55), to make and paint a Dragon 1/35 Tiger out of the box. He quoted $250. At that time the K&C Whittman Tiger was $135. Another example I can give is the Andrea 54mm Roman General on horse (ie Russell Crowe like) which then sold for A$116 unpainted (add $100 plus to make and paint). Compare that to K&C Saladin for about A$125 at that time or soon after.

Comparing a unmade kit to a K&C, FL, Figarti, CS type vehicle or figure is simply not a realistic comparison. There is little crossover between the two hobbies (obvious exceptions Mitch and Obee). Imagine trying to get a modeller to make and paint a Napoleonic scene involving say 12 Scots in kilts and several French Mounted figures of same Regiment. First problem would be to get the variety of the poses or pay for conversions by a bit more advanced modeller. Would be far more expensive than TS's and another problem is the time it would take for the diorama to be finished. Then ask him to do the Crusader V Saracen scene with camels and flagbearers. A problem with completed armour or aircraft kits is that they are basically plastic (or can be more expensive resin) and are easily damaged. Most completed kits stay in the home of the maker.

Just my thoughts.

Regards
Brett

 

[johnnybach]

Hi Brett - I don't think that your kit-makers/ adaptors and painters of castings may be quite as rare as you think. There are plenty that I know who do just that - and are almost "collectors" by default. I always describe myself as a Painter - though I primarily make up what I collect from castings - or kits (where castings have to be put together) and/or converting where necessary. I also repair and refurbish broken TS on occasion - which don't cost the earth - and are sometimes even given FREE! I do know quite a few others like me - not all of whom are members of the forum - and several have quite largeish collections ( mine is around 1,500 metal figures (plus tanks/boats etc made up from plastic kits - mainly). Last year, for example, I made up a 68 figure Scots Band (Two bands actually), plus escorts from metal castings which cost me a grand-total of £214.50 as basic castings, (then add paint/brushes etcetera). Call it around £240 in total. My finish was Glossy - and they were as close in detail as I could get them, by adapting where necessary, to the date I wanted.

Put simply - I couldn't buy them in the way I wanted them, so I had to make them. But SAY I could have from some of the "Ready- made" companies that you mention.
How much would you estimate 68 Scots foot figures have cost me from some of those manufacturers mentioned? - I'm not sure - but would venture a guess that it would have been rather more than my £240. You are correct on several points, however. It took me about six months to complete my set, so quick it ain't - and the enjoyment and sense of achievment for me was enormous, and beyond price. That's why I posted my earlier reply to this thread - which to re-cap, stated that the current economy wasn't really hurting me in particular - and knowing some of my like-minded friends - not them much either - just because we make up our collections in this less expensive way.


For collectors like us - who know precisely what they want to collect - we go out and find some REASONABLY priced castings - and either make them as they come from the manufacturer, or adapt and paint them to suit EXACTLY what we want. You DID quote some rather pricey casting providors, by the way, but there are plenty out there at the less costly end of the market, who can provide good quality products - though you may have to put in a fair bit of work, to make them EXACTLY as you want.

I say again - there may be a few more of us about than you might think. Regards, johnnybach^&grin

 

[Mitch]

JB....

I think Brett's post was more aimed at the comments from Alex that not many people will give up model making and, this was focused on the 1/35th scalers, and start buying pre made and pre painted 1/30th.

I don't think he was saying that there are not many who create their own sets and paint their own castings. There are many who paint and do such things. I think the thread and the original question was more aimed at these 1/30th collectors who make such purchases and if the economy was hurting them rather than those who cast and model make.

The forum questions like these predominately apply to the 1/30th collectors. I agree with Brett that its a hard slog if one is trying to get model makers to convert to the 1/30th pre built hobby.
Best Wishes
Mitch

Hi Brett - I don't think that your kit-makers/ adaptors and painters of castings may be quite as rare as you think. There are plenty that I know who do just that - and are almost "collectors" by default. I always describe myself as a Painter - though I primarily make up what I collect from castings - or kits (where castings have to be put together) and/or converting where necessary. I also repair and refurbish broken TS on occasion - which don't cost the earth - and are sometimes even given FREE! I do know quite a few others like me - not all of whom are members of the forum - and several have quite largeish collections ( mine is around 1,500 metal figures (plus tanks/boats etc made up from plastic kits - mainly). Last year, for example, I made up a 68 figure Scots Band (Two bands actually), plus escorts from metal castings which cost me a grand-total of £214.50 as basic castings, (then add paint/brushes etcetera). Call it around £240 in total. My finish was Glossy - and they were as close in detail as I could get them, by adapting where necessary, to the date I wanted.

Put simply - I couldn't buy them in the way I wanted them, so I had to make them. But SAY I could have from some of the "Ready- made" companies that you mention.
How much would you estimate 68 Scots foot figures have cost me from some of those manufacturers mentioned? - I'm not sure - but would venture a guess that it would have been rather more than my £240. You are correct on several points, however. It took me about six months to complete my set, so quick it ain't - and the enjoyment and sense of achievment for me was enormous, and beyond price. That's why I posted my earlier reply to this thread - which to re-cap, stated that the current economy wasn't really hurting me in particular - and knowing some of my like-minded friends - not them much either - just because we make up our collections in this less expensive way.


For collectors like us - who know precisely what they want to collect - we go out and find some REASONABLY priced castings - and either make them as they come from the manufacturer, or adapt and paint them to suit EXACTLY what we want. You DID quote some rather pricey casting providors, by the way, but there are plenty out there at the less costly end of the market, who can provide good quality products - though you may have to put in a fair bit of work, to make them EXACTLY as you want.

I say again - there may be a few more of us about than you might think. Regards, johnnybach^&grin

 

[johnnybach]

Hi Mitch - If I mis-understood the post in question - then point taken my friend. Just wanted to point out (not only to Brett) - that there is often a way to stay in the hobby, when money gets tight. Not only that - but that the hobby - as I think you and I are very aware - can often be much more than just buying off the shelf - but can be so much more satisfying - if a bit of work is put in by the buyer too.

Lovely hobby though - whichever way you get to the final result.............Stick with it - it will get better........jb^&grin