JF : The Smoking Gun (of a US Secret Service agent) (1 Viewer)

[TomB]

The first shot occurs at 0 seconds. So it's really getting off two more shots in the remaining time. No one knows with certainty what the exact timeframe was for the entire shooting. Oswald could have had as long as ten seconds. I believe the longest shot was about 270 feet. Oswald was trained to shoot in the Marines. And he did miss his target on one of the three shots. He was not perfect. Charles Whitman received similar Marine Corps training in the 60's and hit moving people at about five times the distance of Oswald's longest shot. The general consensus appears to be that it would have been a moderately difficult, but entirely possible shot for someone with Oswald's experience with rifles. In fact, Bugliosi argues that Oswald may not have used his scope at all, but used the iron sights as he was taught in the Marines. I doubt that was the case, but it shows that he performed no extraordinary feat in pulling this off. If you ever visit Dealey Plaza you will be amazed at how much it looks the same and how small the area is where this happened.

Thank you for the above information.........I presumed he was he was using the "Iron Sights" and that would take longer to re-site after each shot...no trouble with the marksman bit now.....thank you for the trouble for going into all the above detail....regards TomB

 

[RPZ]

Several points to address here.

Secret Service protocols, SOPs and training were already very highly developed. Most of the improvements are in electronic gadgets and other assorted equipment.

I have yet to see any SS agent testify on camera to the effect that it was JFK himself who ordered riders off the limo. And by riders I refer to those who would ride on the outer portions of the vehicle.

Secrecy is not really an issue in an age where public dissemination of information to the general public is all routed through media that is controlled by a few people. Several examples amply illustrate this. Project Ultra of WW2 was a well kept secret until the 1970s despite hundreds being involved. The infamous Gulf of Tomkin incident that LBJ sold to the American public to engage us in a war was finally admitted to be a fraud - as in, it did not happen, in recent years. Other examples are many. Significantly classified info related to the subject assassination of which there is much, will not be public until 2045, long after there will be no living witnesses. How about that. No leaks forthcoming there.

One issue that is not well represented in the practical aspects of the alleged shooter Oswald is the rifle. The Carcano has been wrongly stated to be inaccurate. It was in fact a high quality arm in typical Old World form. However most of those on the surplus market were battlefield veterans that were well worn. The question remains as to the exact state of the bore and muzzle crown of the exhibited rifle. I have not seen any so-called expert even comment on this.

The bolt handle of the Carcano is well forward of the trigger guard because of the rear locking Mannlicher action. This is not conducive to rapid manipulation.of the bolt
. Not to say several shots could not be well directed, but the shooter would have to be well practiced, and completely over any habits using a standard a standard Mauser type action like a Springfield 1903 etc.

 

[Harper (aka Spitfrnd)]

I have yet to see any SS agent testify on camera to the effect that it was JFK himself who ordered riders off the limo. And by riders I refer to those who would ride on the outer portions of the vehicle.

What does that matter. Riding on the vehicle doesn't really add much to protection except by chance.

Secrecy is not really an issue in an age where public dissemination of information to the general public is all routed through media that is controlled by a few people. Several examples amply illustrate this. Project Ultra of WW2 was a well kept secret until the 1970s despite hundreds being involved. The infamous Gulf of Tomkin incident that LBJ sold to the American public to engage us in a war was finally admitted to be a fraud - as in, it did not happen, in recent years.

That is not quite accurate. The August 2 battle was documented to have occurred. It is only the August 4th attempted attack that has since been attributed to "ghost" radar images and subsequent crew reactions. After the attack on the 2nd, it is hardly surprising the crews were a bit twichy. So it may have been misinterpreted but it was hardly a fraud. I don't see any conspiracy or great example of information surpression in that example.

 

[RPZ]

What does that matter. Riding on the vehicle doesn't really add much to protection except by chance.

That is not quite accurate. The August 2 battle was documented to have occurred. It is only the August 4th attempted attack that has since been attributed to "ghost" radar images and subsequent crew reactions. After the attack on the 2nd, it is hardly surprising the crews were a bit twichy. So it may have been misinterpreted but it was hardly a fraud. I don't see any conspiracy or great example of information surpression in that example.

McNamara himself has stated in an interview that the second incident did not happen.

Here's another: the Iraqi military throwing babies out of incubators. Fraud committed in testimony before a congressional hearing by the Kuwaiti ambassadors daughter. This was well reported albeit not by major news networks who never issued a retraction. The administration at the time rode this blatant lie to persuade a reluctant Congress and public into a war.

Other examples are there. One does not need an absolute level of secrecy to pull off an information coup to fool enough people enough of the time.

If you accept the theory that Kennedy was shot from behind it means that agents riding the rear standing would have likely denied the shooter a clear shot

 

[TomB]

Certainly very interesting. SPOILER ALERT DONT READ BELOW IF YOU WANT TO WAIT UNTIL WATCH YOURSELF.

The core of the case is based on forensics by a US gun expert called Howard Donohue. He was one of a group of marksmen used by CBS in mid 60's to recreate the three shots fired by Oswald in less than 6 seconds. He was the only marksman who could fire the 3 rounds and hit a moving target (11 mph) from same distance and height in less than the 6 seconds. Using same type of gun and ammo he was able to do it but only on his third attempt which made him doubt it was possible.

After that Donohue spent 25 years examining the forensics and came up with theory about George Hockey, agent in car behind president, accidentally discharging his AR15. He published a book called Mortal Error about it.

Three bullets. Suggests 1st from Oswald missed, 2nd from Oswald went through Kennedy and into Governor. Agents bullet hollow point type hence the serious damage.

Documentary also covers a lot to do with autopsy and pressure Dr's were under. 30 people in the room but all photos taken and notes by FBI agents never seen again etc. All sworn to secrecy and guy who x-rayed the brain told to make a false x-ray (he revealed this in testimony in 1997).

Did not mention if anybody present during autopsy was still alive and would be interested to know answer to that.

A number of witness statements taken by Dallas Police mentioned smell of gunpowder at street level and also witnesses saying an agent had AR15 (there is a photo) with one saying thought agent firing back. Documentary suggests there were some questions the Warren Commission did not want to look into. Suggests Arlen Specter assistant counsel for the commission may have deliberately not called some witnesses or asked certain questions (he died a year ago). However also says in those days no computers so hard to make all the connections on certain points that can be done easily now in comparing witness evidence.

Not mentioned in the documentary but a review mentioned the impact at the time if it had come out that the bullet that blew out most of the Presidents brain was caused by one of his own agents.

Basically they had a shooter and a weapon and the shooter died soon after. The documentary looks at some of the actions by the Secret Service and gives a pretty good reason why they would be keen to lay it all on Oswald.

I found it pretty convincing.
Brett

Caught up with the Vid on SBS last night...you give an excellent discription of the recorded events of the doco...somethingthing you did not mentioned and I found interesting is that Hockey had only been in the SS for six months and his usual job was to look after the limo and drive it...it was also alledged the SS agent were on the town the night before and did not finish carrying on till late in the morning...very professional behaviour for body guards ? for some reason some-one else took over the driving job and Hockey was promoted into a body guard with a "Ready for action" M15 by his side ....there were reports of witnesses seeing a SS agent with a weapon that looked like a rifle...even a photo showing a agent with a long weapon....one witness actually saying she thought she saw the SS return fire....How efficient was Hockeys weapon training.....was he also on the slops with the other agents the night before ?....in the heat of the moment did he by accident flip off the safty and pull the trigger in one motion...maybe he lost his balance... ... the M15....223 bullet (Which was banned in Vietnam and was replaced by the M16 and 225 bullet in 1966 ....from memory ) would shatter causing the damaged descriped in the cause of death report ( or was that another cover up ???)..A hit from the larger bullet would would have made a more notisably impact on the head and saved a lot of theroies ....the thee empty casing found at Oswald perch...three shots...three bullets...QED......The Secert Service carry on at the hospital only drew the craps and pointed suspicion at a "Accdental Dischard " within the ranks......Donohue presented a darn good case and I am inclinded to think it has a lot of merit.....Hey...how about this ...what if Oswald ...from his perch...actually saw the the SS guy ,,,by accident...shot JFK.......something to think about.......It appears all the inquires into JFK have not been done very efficiebtly ....the theorys about the inquiries could go on for years too no doubt...Why dont the Yanks just tell the thruth and get it over with ? Thank you for drawing attention to the show.....I think I would put my two bob on Donohue....regards TomB

 

[The Military Workshop]

Caught up with the Vid on SBS last night...you give an excellent discription of the recorded events of the doco...somethingthing you did not mentioned and I found interesting is that Hockey had only been in the SS for six months and his usual job was to look after the limo and drive it...it was also alledged the SS agent were on the town the night before and did not finish carrying on till late in the morning...very professional behaviour for body guards ? for some reason some-one else took over the driving job and Hockey was promoted into a body guard with a "Ready for action" M15 by his side ....there were reports of witnesses seeing a SS agent with a weapon that looked like a rifle...even a photo showing a agent with a long weapon....one witness actually saying she thought she saw the SS return fire....How efficient was Hockeys weapon training.....was he also on the slops with the other agents the night before ?....in the heat of the moment did he by accident flip off the safty and pull the trigger in one motion...maybe he lost his balance... ... the M15....223 bullet (Which was banned in Vietnam and was replaced by the M16 and 225 bullet in 1966 ....from memory ) would shatter causing the damaged descriped in the cause of death report ( or was that another cover up ???)..A hit from the larger bullet would would have made a more notisably impact on the head and saved a lot of theroies ....the thee empty casing found at Oswald perch...three shots...three bullets...QED......The Secert Service carry on at the hospital only drew the craps and pointed suspicion at a "Accdental Dischard " within the ranks......Donohue presented a darn good case and I am inclinded to think it has a lot of merit.....Hey...how about this ...what if Oswald ...from his perch...actually saw the the SS guy ,,,by accident...shot JFK.......something to think about.......It appears all the inquires into JFK have not been done very efficiebtly ....the theorys about the inquiries could go on for years too no doubt...Why dont the Yanks just tell the thruth and get it over with ? Thank you for drawing attention to the show.....I think I would put my two bob on Donohue....regards TomB

Tom,.
Yes I did note Hickey was new into the SS and usually a driver. My impression was he got the AR15 because others had been out on the town until 5am.

If Oswald did not fire the 3 shots then presumably he might have seen his non shot hit JFK.

One thing for sure is the head of the SS must not have had an enjoyable time testifying before the Warren Commission.

As mentioned earlier it is a fascinating case but many have fixed views on what might have happened. This theory explains a lot but as Combat mentioned there have been others who have debunked it. Wherever you look there is another aspect to consider.

There are apparently some papers that will not be declassified until 2040.

Brett

 

[TomB]

Tom,.
Yes I did note Hickey was new into the SS and usually a driver. My impression was he got the AR15 because others had been out on the town until 5am.

If Oswald did not fire the 3 shots then presumably he might have seen his non shot hit JFK.

One thing for sure is the head of the SS must not have had an enjoyable time testifying before the Warren Commission.

As mentioned earlier it is a fascinating case but many have fixed views on what might have happened. This theory explains a lot but as Combat mentioned there have been others who have debunked it. Wherever you look there is another aspect to consider.

There are apparently some papers that will not be declassified until 2040.

Brett

Brett......I doubt if I will still be around by 2040 so I wont know how my two bob will go but taking inflation into account I reckon I might have end up a few quid ahead..... Donohue's book did not sell well and I presume , was dismissed as just another nutter theory .....Hockey did not sue Donohue until two years after the book was released.....would it not have been a smarter move to ignore the book as it was not causing any waves.........facts are sometimes stranger than fiction......if I end up in the same place as Oswald maybe I will get a chance to ask him what happened...thanks for bring the doco to attention...regards TomB

 

[The Military Workshop]

For interest I looked at the evidence given to Warren Commisison by occupants of the follow up car. This car is described as being 5-8 feet behind JFK's car at time of shots.

In the Smoking Gun documentary a point was made about the AR15 and some difference of answers.

From statement of ATSAIC Emory P. Roberts one week after event occupants were :
ATSAIC Emory P. Roberts -- front seat -- operating radio.
SA Samuel Kinney -- driving
Mr. Kenneth O'Donnell, Appointment Secretary to the President, left jump seat.
Mr. David Powers, Presidential Aide, right jump seat.
SA Glen Bennett, left rear seat.
SA George Hickey, right rear seat (manning AR-15 (rifle)
SA Clinton Hill, left running board, front.
SA William Mclntyre, left running board, behind Hill.
SA John D. Ready, right running board, front.
SA Paul Landis, right running board behind Ready.

The only agent from the car who gave formal WC evidence was Hill who was the one who boarded JFK's car. O Donnell and Powers (non SS) both gave evidence but AR15 not mentioned. Of all the agents that day it would appear Hill comes out in the most positive light (and quite rightly so).

Agent Kellerman was in charge of the detail and in JFK car and his reference to an AR15 was as follows :

Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir.; in this followup car we have what is now known as an AR-15. This is a rifle, and it is on all movements; this vehicle is out of the case; it won't be shown it could be laying flat on the floor, but she is ready to go.

and Rowley the head of the SS answered as follows :
The CHAIRMAN. And they have submachineguns in one of the cars.
Mr. ROWLEY. No; for security reasons, I would like to--we don't have machine-guns now, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. I just thought I heard that from the record here, that they had some kind of guns.
Mr. ROWLEY. They had a weapon, a new weapon; yes, sir.
Mr. CHAIRMAN. Well, whatever it is.
Now, other people, as they went along there, even some people in the crowds, saw a man with a rifle up in this building from which the President was shot. Now, don't you think that if a man went to bed reasonably early, and hadn't been drinking the night before, would be more alert to see those things as a Secret Service agent, than if they stayed up until 3, 4, or 5 o'clock in the morning, going to beatnik joints and doing some drinking along the way?

It is mentioned that the Agents had given statements soon after the events and these are online and show :
Hickey - At the end of the last report I reached to the bottom of the car and picked up the AR 15 rifle, cocked and loaded it, and turned to the rear. At this point the cars were passing under the over-pass and as a result we had left the scene of the shooting. I kept the AR 15 rifle ready as we proceeded at a high rate of speed to the hospital.
McIntyre - Most, if not all the agents in the follow-up car had drawn their weapons and agent Hickey was handling the AR-15
Bennet - I immediately hollered "he's hit" and reached for the AR-15 located on the floor of the rear seat. Special Agent Hickey had already picked-up the AR-15.

Rowley was the head of SS and not present in Dallas. Most of his "evidence" is hearsay and a summary of what his agents said during previous interviews. Kellerman head of detail but not actually in the follow up car.

I can see what the documentary thought interesting. Hickey says he picked it up, cocked and loaded whereas Kellerman said she is ready to go. Kellerman might have just been saying the AR15 was supposed to be ready to go but that does not mean it was. 4 agents from the car were amongst the ones who had a late night and I think Hickey not normally the AR15 guy. Rowleys answer "No; for security reasons, I would like to--we don't have machine-guns now, sir" seems odd but could be just that he did not want to talk about the kind of weapons they had on board.

I guess you have to add in the forensic/ballistic anomalies to conclude the minor comments about AR15 above might have any real significance. If you believe Oswald could not make the shots he did then you end up going with things like SS guy with an AR15 discharge or grassy knoll etc. Interesting to note that Agent Landis in his first statement said he believed a shot came from his front right.

Rowleys evidence does cover the late night drinking. Based on that alone the SS would have been sensitive about their roles that day. No disciplinary action was taken for breach of SS rules as Rowley did not want those agents to have that stigma attached to them on that fateful day.

The role of the SS that day been the subject of much comment. A book just been released in last few days is Survivors Guilt (SS Failure to protect JFK) and one link is here http://www.examiner.com/article/of-...alamara-on-survivor-s-guilt-jfk-assassination

One of the SS agents, Gerald Blaine (on the night shift) did publish a book
http://www.kennedydetail.com/

and it is interesting to note author, Palamara, of most recent book had a number of issues with it. See his review of The Kennedy Detail here.
http://www.ctka.net/reviews/kennedydetailreview.html The section about JFK's driver, Greer, is interesting.

Just some of the interesting things I found surfing.
Brett

 

[TomB]

For interest I looked at the evidence given to Warren Commisison by occupants of the follow up car. This car is described as being 5-8 feet behind JFK's car at time of shots.

In the Smoking Gun documentary a point was made about the AR15 and some difference of answers.

From statement of ATSAIC Emory P. Roberts one week after event occupants were :
ATSAIC Emory P. Roberts -- front seat -- operating radio.
SA Samuel Kinney -- driving
Mr. Kenneth O'Donnell, Appointment Secretary to the President, left jump seat.
Mr. David Powers, Presidential Aide, right jump seat.
SA Glen Bennett, left rear seat.
SA George Hickey, right rear seat (manning AR-15 (rifle)
SA Clinton Hill, left running board, front.
SA William Mclntyre, left running board, behind Hill.
SA John D. Ready, right running board, front.
SA Paul Landis, right running board behind Ready.

The only agent from the car who gave formal WC evidence was Hill who was the one who boarded JFK's car. O Donnell and Powers (non SS) both gave evidence but AR15 not mentioned. Of all the agents that day it would appear Hill comes out in the most positive light (and quite rightly so).

Agent Kellerman was in charge of the detail and in JFK car and his reference to an AR15 was as follows :

Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir.; in this followup car we have what is now known as an AR-15. This is a rifle, and it is on all movements; this vehicle is out of the case; it won't be shown it could be laying flat on the floor, but she is ready to go.

and Rowley the head of the SS answered as follows :
The CHAIRMAN. And they have submachineguns in one of the cars.
Mr. ROWLEY. No; for security reasons, I would like to--we don't have machine-guns now, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. I just thought I heard that from the record here, that they had some kind of guns.
Mr. ROWLEY. They had a weapon, a new weapon; yes, sir.
Mr. CHAIRMAN. Well, whatever it is.
Now, other people, as they went along there, even some people in the crowds, saw a man with a rifle up in this building from which the President was shot. Now, don't you think that if a man went to bed reasonably early, and hadn't been drinking the night before, would be more alert to see those things as a Secret Service agent, than if they stayed up until 3, 4, or 5 o'clock in the morning, going to beatnik joints and doing some drinking along the way?

It is mentioned that the Agents had given statements soon after the events and these are online and show :
Hickey - At the end of the last report I reached to the bottom of the car and picked up the AR 15 rifle, cocked and loaded it, and turned to the rear. At this point the cars were passing under the over-pass and as a result we had left the scene of the shooting. I kept the AR 15 rifle ready as we proceeded at a high rate of speed to the hospital.
McIntyre - Most, if not all the agents in the follow-up car had drawn their weapons and agent Hickey was handling the AR-15
Bennet - I immediately hollered "he's hit" and reached for the AR-15 located on the floor of the rear seat. Special Agent Hickey had already picked-up the AR-15.

Rowley was the head of SS and not present in Dallas. Most of his "evidence" is hearsay and a summary of what his agents said during previous interviews. Kellerman head of detail but not actually in the follow up car.

I can see what the documentary thought interesting. Hickey says he picked it up, cocked and loaded whereas Kellerman said she is ready to go. Kellerman might have just been saying the AR15 was supposed to be ready to go but that does not mean it was. 4 agents from the car were amongst the ones who had a late night and I think Hickey not normally the AR15 guy. Rowleys answer "No; for security reasons, I would like to--we don't have machine-guns now, sir" seems odd but could be just that he did not want to talk about the kind of weapons they had on board.

I guess you have to add in the forensic/ballistic anomalies to conclude the minor comments about AR15 above might have any real significance. If you believe Oswald could not make the shots he did then you end up going with things like SS guy with an AR15 discharge or grassy knoll etc. Interesting to note that Agent Landis in his first statement said he believed a shot came from his front right.

Rowleys evidence does cover the late night drinking. Based on that alone the SS would have been sensitive about their roles that day. No disciplinary action was taken for breach of SS rules as Rowley did not want those agents to have that stigma attached to them on that fateful day.

The role of the SS that day been the subject of much comment. A book just been released in last few days is Survivors Guilt (SS Failure to protect JFK) and one link is here http://www.examiner.com/article/of-...alamara-on-survivor-s-guilt-jfk-assassination

One of the SS agents, Gerald Blaine (on the night shift) did publish a book
http://www.kennedydetail.com/

and it is interesting to note author, Palamara, of most recent book had a number of issues with it. See his review of The Kennedy Detail here.
http://www.ctka.net/reviews/kennedydetailreview.html The section about JFK's driver, Greer, is interesting.

Just some of the interesting things I found surfing.
Brett

Bloody Hell...something new every day....there appears to be an industry producing "Who Shot JFK "books ...the only thing certain is ...JFK was shot.....I bet yer...that if the TRUTH did come out about who shot JFK there would be a flood of book de-bunking the
TRUTH....the actions of the SS mob needs to be explained ...they were covering something up........maybe the butler did it.....regards TomB

 

[GICOP]

Just watched the movie EXECUTIVE ACTION starring Burt Lancaster and Robert Ryran this afternoon ^&cool

Cheers

Martyn

 

[Harper (aka Spitfrnd)]

McNamara himself has stated in an interview that the second incident did not happen.

I would have to see the quote to judge and even then it is McNamara, hardly the most credible of sources.

Here's another: the Iraqi military throwing babies out of incubators. Fraud committed in testimony before a congressional hearing by the Kuwaiti ambassadors daughter. This was well reported albeit not by major news networks who never issued a retraction. The administration at the time rode this blatant lie to persuade a reluctant Congress and public into a war.

That is a new one to me. I have never heard that being used as much of a justification for the war; Maybe it made some feel better about it but in reality that observation was just a juicy press moment.

Other examples are there. One does not need an absolute level of secrecy to pull off an information coup to fool enough people enough of the time.

I don't think they are there to show you could pull that off for a subject that has had this level of examination, not to mention the period of time involved. In any event it is rather moot since there is no real support for the SS shot to begin with.

If you accept the theory that Kennedy was shot from behind it means that agents riding the rear standing would have likely denied the shooter a clear shot

Well it you accept he was shot by Invisible Aliens, all this is all moot. The conjecture is amusing but I have yet to see anything to support any conclusion other than he was shot by Oswald. I really loved the Parallax View but it is only a movie.

 

[Combat]

The Military Channel has an interesting program airing Tuesday, Nov. 12 - "Capturing Oswald" - with many of the law enforcement members who participated in the investigation and arrest. This sounds like one of the better programs on the assassination:


http://military.discovery.com/tv-shows/capturing-oswald/about-this-show/about-capturing-oswald.htm

 

[RPZ]

Harper,

It really does not matter what anyone thought or thinks of McNamara, the fact is that he was the Secretary of Defense at the time, and would have had complete and access to all operational and intelligence at the time, and for years afterwards.

G H W Bush made an impassioned speech that focussed on that false testimony after it had been delivered to the Congressional hearing. It was the tipping point in securing Congressional approval and a sudden sway in public opinion which had up to that point had been negative on both counts.

The Kuwaiti ambassador's daughter should have been nominated for an Academy Award for her tearful performance. Both her fake testimony and GHWB's parts can be still seen on YouTube. Hardly a mere press item.

As for the Secret Service agent accidently or otherwise loosing one or more bullets I do not buy it at all.

Regarding SS riders and Oswald's alleged shot(s) I fail to see why you inject an absurdity in response. It is a simple fact that SS riders on the rear of the limo would have obstructed a clear shot. That was the point. If you can articulate otherwise it might keep the discussion more objective.

 

[Harper (aka Spitfrnd)]

Harper,

It really does not matter what anyone thought or thinks of McNamara, the fact is that he was the Secretary of Defense at the time, and would have had complete and access to all operational and intelligence at the time, and for years afterwards.

G H W Bush made an impassioned speech that focussed on that false testimony after it had been delivered to the Congressional hearing. It was the tipping point in securing Congressional approval and a sudden sway in public opinion which had up to that point had been negative on both counts.

The Kuwaiti ambassador's daughter should have been nominated for an Academy Award for her tearful performance. Both her fake testimony and GHWB's parts can be still seen on YouTube. Hardly a mere press item.

As for the Secret Service agent accidently or otherwise loosing one or more bullets I do not buy it at all.

Regarding SS riders and Oswald's alleged shot(s) I fail to see why you inject an absurdity in response. It is a simple fact that SS riders on the rear of the limo would have obstructed a clear shot. That was the point. If you can articulate otherwise it might keep the discussion more objective.

Sorry, it is hard to take any of this seriously. These little anomolies have been discussed for decades without adding anyhing useful to a diologue on causation. It is amusing to me that you would not buy the SS loosing bullets but would buy then shooting Kennedy in the head through and windshield at just the right moment. One is a small mystery, the other a giant improbability. As for the riders, there is always the next precaution that could have prevented some assination but what does that really matter unless you believe that the absense of that precaution was part of the conspiracy, which to me is totally without support. No doubt he would have been safer in an armored limo but that was really not his style.

Similarly, I really don't see any support for the view that the deciding factor in our entering the Iraq war was the baby testimony, no matter how tearful. There were many good reasons for doing what was done that go beyond that. So while it may have provided a justification for those that ignored all the other reasons, I do not see that as deciding.

 

[Scott]

"They're Zapruderlicious!"

 

[RPZ]

Harper,

Do not know where you got it from but I have never suggested nor supported the idea that he was shot through the windshield.

 

[Harper (aka Spitfrnd)]

I simply misspoke; meant to say shot by a SS agent but was doing something else while typing that message.

 

[RPZ]

I simply misspoke; meant to say shot by a SS agent but was doing something else while typing that message.

Well, my last comment applies to both avenues of theory.

 

[Combat]

CNN is airing a one-hour show tonight on the JFK assassination (9PM) as part of a series on the 1960's. Quite a few good shows on the case. Bill Paxton hosted a very good show for National Geographic about the JFK trip to Texas including films from his prior stops in San Antonio and Houston. Paxton was in the crowd on the morning of 11.22 when JFK came out of his Fort Worth hotel and spoke and he can be seen on his father's shoulders. It's surreal to see Kennedy at the height of power and fame and realize what was in store for him on that day.

http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/09/24/bill-paxton-jfk-final-hours-documentary/

 

[jazzeum]

Adam Gopnik in The New Yorker had an article about the assassination and information regarding it, http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/books/2013/11/04/131104crbo_books_gopnik