K&C Jagdtiger? (5 Viewers)

[Phantom Warrior]

i don't think the tiger will be that limited, as its a popular item and sell very well.
what i do know at least it won't be a mob lynch like the figarti winter 88 (100 pax only).

You are probably correct But those LCAs and Hurricanes disappeared very fast.

Terry

 

[nasirkasmani]

You are probably correct But those LCAs and Hurricanes disappeared very fast.

Terry

perhaps its diorama base syndrome.

the LCAs were multiple purchase, as fuzzy logic dictates that having more than 1 LCA is ideal for a Dday beach invasion diorama.

i think the Hurricanes were snapped up as it is a break from the more expensive warbird series.

one thing to note is that, there are a few tigers (wittmann,winter, Tunisian) beforehand, so the item is not seen too crucial for the average collector.

anyway we'll see.

 

[Rob]

perhaps its diorama base syndrome.

the LCAs were multiple purchase, as fuzzy logic dictates that having more than 1 LCA is ideal for a Dday beach invasion diorama.

i think the Hurricanes were snapped up as it is a break from the more expensive warbird series.

one thing to note is that, there are a few tigers (wittmann,winter, Tunisian) beforehand, so the item is not seen too crucial for the average collector.

anyway we'll see.

I agree re the Warbirds.I was knocked out by both the quality and the value of the Hurricane and am now thinkinng of getting the second one.I mean no offence in any way at all to collectors of the wooden warbirds,but for me these new ones are the way to go.

Rob

 

[fmethorst]

The deployment of Jagdtigers was as follows.....

2 x Porche...test vehicles.
2 x Porche...training vehicles
2 x Henschel....training vehicles

S.Pz.Jg.Abt 653 ......7 x Porche (one used as training vehicle) +36 x Henschel

HQ....No Jagdtigers
1st Coy...14 x Jagdtigers
2nd Coy...14 x Jagdtigers the distribution of porche vehicles is not recorded
3rd Coy....14 x Jagdtigers
Plus 1 x training vehicle

S.Pz.Jg.Abt 512....27 x (All Henschel)

HQ....No Jagdtigers
1st Coy...10 x Jagdtigers
2nd Coy....10 Jagdtigers
3rd Coy....7 x Jagdtigers

LAH.....4 x Jagtigers (All Henschel)

In factory....8 x Jagdtigers (All Henschel with 88 mm guns)

TOTAL 88 x Jagtigers (77 x Henschel,11 x Porche)

S.Pz.Jg.Abt was formed in March 1943( from Stug Abt 157).It was initially equipped with elephants/ferdinands.

Jeff

Hi Jeff,

Great information, very helpful.

You left the unit number out above in you last paragraph but I assume you are refering to s.Pz.Jg.Abt.653. That unit was formed from the redsignated Stug.Abt.197 not 157 on April 1 1943 at Bruck on the Leitha in Austria.

The ultimate book on that unit is "Combat History of Schwere Panzerjager Abteilung 653" by Karlheinz Munch (the original JJ Fedorowicz edition)

 

[tullock]

Frank.
Yes it was s.Pz.Jg.Abt.653 that I was referring tf course you are correct with 197.Where the hell did I get 157 from!!!I've got a copy of Munch's book,it is a superb account of this unit.
Jeff

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Frank.
Yes it was s.Pz.Jg.Abt.653 that I was referring tf course you are correct with 197.Where the hell did I get 157 from!!!I've got a copy of Munch's book,it is a superb account of this unit.
Jeff

Probably just a typo

Terry

 

[fmethorst]

I found the following exerpt from that book interesting, although not unexpected:

25 December 1944 To First Army High Command
Subject: s.Pz.Jg.Abt.653

The following memorandum about Jagdtiger operations contains critical information.

Armament and mobility of the Jagdtiger favor solid, level, open terrain. The Jagdtiger is dependant on bridges because steep ditches and stream beds make considerable demands upon the chassis and drive train (Driving weight 80 tons)

There are still considerable problems with the Porsche suspension (the battalion still has 7 Porsche Jagdtigers, the rest have Henschel suspension).
1) Strong jolts from the two piece track causing misalignment of the cannon. The suspension springs are too tight.
2) Load bearing surface of compartmented suspension with simple road wheels causes lateral stress on the tracks in poor terrain (rocky, depressions, curving roads) leading to bent tracks or broken track connectors.
3) Special suspension parts such as separate terrain and rail loading tracks make resupply and maintenance difficult.

Combat: Slow rate of fire (Separate projectile and propellant casing. It is necessary to return to zero degree elevation after each shot to unload the spent casing). This makes it necessary to employ a large number of Jagdtigers in an attack.

Strengths: Cannon has penetration power at 3500 meters. Attacks dependent upon solid terrain and good visibility. Mechanical losses at about 40%, therefore only deploy in a consolidated unit or defensive power will be too weak during enemy counterattacks

Army group G High Command
Chief of the General Staff
signed, Staedke, Gen. Maj.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

I found the following exerpt from that book interesting, although not unexpected:

25 December 1944 To First Army High Command
Subject: s.Pz.Jg.Abt.653

The following memorandum about Jagdtiger operations contains critical information.

Armament and mobility of the Jagdtiger favor solid, level, open terrain. The Jagdtiger is dependant on bridges because steep ditches and stream beds make considerable demands upon the chassis and drive train (Driving weight 80 tons)

There are still considerable problems with the Porsche suspension (the battalion still has 7 Porsche Jagdtigers, the rest have Henschel suspension).
1) Strong jolts from the two piece track causing misalignment of the cannon. The suspension springs are too tight.
2) Load bearing surface of compartmented suspension with simple road wheels causes lateral stress on the tracks in poor terrain (rocky, depressions, curving roads) leading to bent tracks or broken track connectors.
3) Special suspension parts such as separate terrain and rail loading tracks make resupply and maintenance difficult.

Combat: Slow rate of fire (Separate projectile and propellant casing. It is necessary to return to zero degree elevation after each shot to unload the spent casing). This makes it necessary to employ a large number of Jagdtigers in an attack.

Strengths: Cannon has penetration power at 3500 meters. Attacks dependent upon solid terrain and good visibility. Mechanical losses at about 40%, therefore only deploy in a consolidated unit or defensive power will be too weak during enemy counterattacks

Army group G High Command
Chief of the General Staff
signed, Staedke, Gen. Maj.

Very nice Frank. What a versitile weapon You really have to wonder at why they built them (Yes - because Hitler wanted to)

Terry

 

[Rob]

I found the following exerpt from that book interesting, although not unexpected:

25 December 1944 To First Army High Command
Subject: s.Pz.Jg.Abt.653

The following memorandum about Jagdtiger operations contains critical information.

Armament and mobility of the Jagdtiger favor solid, level, open terrain. The Jagdtiger is dependant on bridges because steep ditches and stream beds make considerable demands upon the chassis and drive train (Driving weight 80 tons)

There are still considerable problems with the Porsche suspension (the battalion still has 7 Porsche Jagdtigers, the rest have Henschel suspension).
1) Strong jolts from the two piece track causing misalignment of the cannon. The suspension springs are too tight.
2) Load bearing surface of compartmented suspension with simple road wheels causes lateral stress on the tracks in poor terrain (rocky, depressions, curving roads) leading to bent tracks or broken track connectors.
3) Special suspension parts such as separate terrain and rail loading tracks make resupply and maintenance difficult.

Combat: Slow rate of fire (Separate projectile and propellant casing. It is necessary to return to zero degree elevation after each shot to unload the spent casing). This makes it necessary to employ a large number of Jagdtigers in an attack.

Strengths: Cannon has penetration power at 3500 meters. Attacks dependent upon solid terrain and good visibility. Mechanical losses at about 40%, therefore only deploy in a consolidated unit or defensive power will be too weak during enemy counterattacks

Army group G High Command
Chief of the General Staff
signed, Staedke, Gen. Maj.

Thanks Frank,very interesting.

Very nice Frank. What a versitile weapon You really have to wonder at why they built them (Yes - because Hitler wanted to)

Terry

Quite right,all that material all those man hours,for a large pillbox that no bridge could take.But as you say Terry,Hitler also thought the V1 and V2 would win the war,pillock!

Rob

 

[nasirkasmani]

Quite right,all that material all those man hours,for a large pillbox that no bridge could take.But as you say Terry,Hitler also thought the V1 and V2 would win the war,pillock!

Rob

true rob. the scary thing is, had hitler think straight and utilize his resources carefully, he could have won the war.

but in times of sheer stupidity, the Maus takes the cake.

 

[Rob]

true rob. the scary thing is, had hitler think straight and utilize his resources carefully, he could have won the war.

but in times of sheer stupidity, the Maus takes the cake.

Absolutely Nasir,the mind boggles at what may have come after that if they'd been allowed!.No doubt about it,if he'd listened more to his very talented officers the outcome may have been very different,thank god he Ballsed it up!

Rob

 

[Peiper007]

Rob

How about a poll on which polls we prefer?

 

[Rob]

Rob

How about a poll on which polls we prefer?

I think I'll leave that one to you

Rob

 

[fmethorst]

Very nice Frank. What a versitile weapon You really have to wonder at why they built them (Yes - because Hitler wanted to)

Terry

I think the effort would have been better spent on the lighter variants of the Entwicklung series.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entwicklung_series

E10

E25

 

[nasirkasmani]

 

[nasirkasmani]

I think the effort would have been better spent on the lighter variants of the Entwicklung series.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entwicklung_series

E10

E25

thanks for the pics frank.

i agree, these make more sense.

even simply producing more panzer IVs would have been more beneficial to the Wehrmacht.

 

[forlornhoper]

A K&C Jagdtiger would look good in winter whitewash.

 

[nasirkasmani]

A K&C Jagdtiger would look good in winter whitewash.

a winter jagdtiger will be something.

 

[Rob]

At the risk of drifting my own thread,although I guess I'm allowedD)a King Tiger would also be awesome in white

Nice pic Ken

Rob

 

[forlornhoper]

this would be a better camo scheme.