K&C support for secondary market (2 Viewers)

[The Military Workshop]

Some may have just received or are about to receive the new 8th Army Flyer (not on K&C web page yet).

I noted with interest the back page is titled Secondary market and shows images of retired EA items and suggests if people are looking for any older items they try the following : Ebay, local dealers, K&C HQ and this forum.

K&C in another recent flyer on Rommels Afrika Korps had a two page image showing 10 retired AK vehicles and some older figures.

The box art of the Marseille plane also featured all retired sets and I had more recent collectors asking for them. As a dealer I remember thinking it would have been better to show current items and said so to Andy. Andy commented that he wanted to show some of the items that had gone before and also how they might be displayed with newer items.

K&C regularly feature retired items in their diorama images and the WWII one with the 12 mounted Germans is a good example.

Obviously K&C makes no money out of the second hand market (despite what some might think). However by often producing flyers and showing dioramas with them in K&C brings them to peoples attention who otherwise might not know about them. Collectors who have missed items will then go on to hunt down retired items and find a collector wishing to sell which is a win win for both sides. I know I have told many Aussie collectors about the two retired Aussie sets, Matilda and 25lb gun set and have had some later happily tell me they got one on Ebay or elsewhere.

Whilst this does not help the K&C or dealers bottom line it does generate collector interest and helps those who might be looking to sell to do so. Whilst there are those who do not plan to sell there are others who do sell for whatever reason.

That last page got me thinking about it today and I think of all the manufacturers this is a unique aspect of "'customer service'' that only K&C has. So if anybody has got a K&C Desert Ltd Ed Tiger please PM me as I know a collector keen to get one and he keeps asking me if I have seen any ? All because I gave him a flyer.

And yes I am a dealer who is a good mate of Andy {sm4} but I thought some comment appropriate for K&C's support of the secondary market.

Regards
Brett

PS. Nice new Desert building in the flyer and a useful little diorama item to go with vehicles (something all vehicles need to go to).

 

[6th Wisconsin]

I think it's a great service too. I think what benefits K&C specifically is it shows the company's tradition and continuance of product lines over the years. It can possibly get a few more K&C buyers to become K&C collectors.

 

[Mitch]

Brett..

Is it not maybe more the case that when doing the pics and dio's that K&C just grab whatever they have at hand that will fit the theatre in question
Mitch

 

[Rob]

What I really enjoy about flyer ads or Gordon's dio's is when they just slip something new into the scene without mentioning, I examine the scene like Poirot on a murder case^&grin They once had an excellent scene that just had the Cromwell tank poking out the side, great way to grab collectors attention.

Rob

 

[The Military Workshop]

Brett..

Is it not maybe more the case that when doing the pics and dio's that K&C just grab whatever they have at hand that will fit the theatre in question
Mitch

Mitch,
I am sure they have plenty to choose from {sm4} However the Marseille box art was clearly all retired items and had to be a deliberate choice and some dios very heavy on the retired items. Perhaps they (Andy and Gordon) are just having fun playing with their armies.
Regards
Brett

 

[wayne556517]

Mitch,
I am sure they have plenty to choose from {sm4} However the Marseille box art was clearly all retired items and had to be a deliberate choice and some dios very heavy on the retired items. Perhaps they (Andy and Gordon) are just having fun playing with their armies.
Regards
Brett

And that's what it is all about IMO....................^&grin

 

[TomNT]

Obviously K&C makes no money out of the second hand market (despite what some might think). However by often producing flyers and showing dioramas with them in K&C brings them to peoples attention who otherwise might not know about them. Collectors who have missed items will then go on to hunt down retired items and find a collector wishing to sell which is a win win for both sides. I know I have told many Aussie collectors about the two retired Aussie sets, Matilda and 25lb gun set and have had some later happily tell me they got one on Ebay or elsewhere.

I agree Brett, i know when i first started collecting K&C, i only collected the newer stuff but once i was aware of the retired items (from the flyers and brochures, ebay and through places like this forum), i started collecting the retired items. I am still yet to acquire the matilda tank tho, so do you know anyone wanting to sell one?? ^&grin

Tom

 

[uksubs]

Well I think one main reason toy soldiers have gone up in price is the secondary market ,when you see people paying $600 for a tank you sold for $200 just go to show how much people will pay for your stuff. I'm just talking in general and not just about kc

 

[Iron Brigade]

Hello "Military Workshop" / Brett:

Yes, certainly Andy Neilson makes no money off of eBay sales of any of his K&C sets. At least I for one certainly have not shared any of my profits on assorted sales of older K&C sets with him. Of course Andy does not give me any discounts for being a good customer and making positive comments in some of my articles that I have had published in Toy Soldier & Model Figure magazine. Overall, I certainly have no complaints with K&C.

The many times that an older retired K&C set makes a noteworthy profit for the seller shows that the K&C line of military, etc miniatures are in great demand. As I understand it only W. Britains comes any where close to the sales K&C makes each year for some time now.

"Iron Brigade" / Gary

 

[Mitch]

I am unsure how any manufacturer can support or not support the secondary market. I note comments from Brett but, having a think I can only see tacit support unless, selling more on the secondary market is believed to help sell more of their product.

Putting older models in the pictures of new stuff is fine but, I don't see it helping sales figures at all. I think and I have only paid attention to e-bay since I started on here that there is endless pages of new stuff going at retail price and, an awful lot going for well below. What does that tell one? I am not sure but, I do agree with some that the secondary market has had its bubble burst. Older stuff in reason sells very well but, depends on what it is and, a lot still sells for nowhere near what it did a few years ago. I base some comments upon the K&CUK auctions they used to have. I saw things go on there for good money which, now sell for what I consider peanuts.

I don't like e-bay myself and have not bought but, the big prices now seem few and far between. For me, the gap between new sets and their huge price rise and older ''rare'' sets has narrowed so much its often better buying old than new in terms of cost.

I really do agree with Frank on a lot of the comments he makes about the secondary market and, quietly chuckled when blowtorch commented on guys selling sets for a few hundred dollars having not quite fulfilled their goals. Thats not against people selling their sets but, I do think, as with other hobbies, there are some real characters only too willing to fleece people.

If I were a manufacturer I would distance myself as far as possible and, possibly try to derail these people
Mitch

 

[Iron Brigade]

I am unsure how any manufacturer can support or not support the secondary market. I note comments from Brett but, having a think I can only see tacit support unless, selling more on the secondary market is believed to help sell more of their product.

Putting older models in the pictures of new stuff is fine but, I don't see it helping sales figures at all. I think and I have only paid attention to e-bay since I started on here that there is endless pages of new stuff going at retail price and, an awful lot going for well below. What does that tell one? I am not sure but, I do agree with some that the secondary market has had its bubble burst. Older stuff in reason sells very well but, depends on what it is and, a lot still sells for nowhere near what it did a few years ago. I base some comments upon the K&CUK auctions they used to have. I saw things go on there for good money which, now sell for what I consider peanuts.

I don't like e-bay myself and have not bought but, the big prices now seem few and far between. For me, the gap between new sets and their huge price rise and older ''rare'' sets has narrowed so much its often better buying old than new in terms of cost.

I really do agree with Frank on a lot of the comments he makes about the secondary market and, quietly chuckled when blowtorch commented on guys selling sets for a few hundred dollars having not quite fulfilled their goals. Thats not against people selling their sets but, I do think, as with other hobbies, there are some real characters only too willing to fleece people.

If I were a manufacturer I would distance myself as far as possible and, possibly try to derail these people
Mitch

Hello Mitch:

At the end of your penultimate paragraph above you noted "there are some real charactors only too willing to fleece people". I have never purchased anything on eBay that is over retail price at least as measured by current K&C prices for similar items. Let the buyer beware!

"Iron Brigade"

 

[Mitch]

Iron brigade...

I nearly put that in my post but, wise words
Mitch

Hello Mitch:

At the end of your penultimate paragraph above you noted "there are some real charactors only too willing to fleece people". I have never purchased anything on eBay that is over retail price at least as measured by current K&C prices for similar items. Let the buyer beware!

"Iron Brigade"

 

[villagehorse]

Ebay has completed all my collections very nicely. Always been a pleasant transaction. Really like Buy It Now, hate bidding wars. Feel that this secondary aspect only assists the hobby and therefore is good for the TS market overall. Cheers, Robin.

 

[waynepoo]

Ebay has completed all my collections very nicely. Always been a pleasant transaction. Really like Buy It Now, hate bidding wars. Feel that this secondary aspect only assists the hobby and therefore is good for the TS market overall. Cheers, Robin.

Robin,
I'm the same, here in OZ there isn't a dealer in every city (luckily we have the S/M in Bris), or shows for that matter, so it's E-bay or nothing for some. Without e-bay or similar you are not going to get that item you want, simple as that. I have never had any drama at all, like Robin I prefer the buy it now option as well. Of course it's buyer beware but that's just common sense.
Wayne.

 

[Mitch]

Guys...

Were moving away from the point a bit or, the point I was making. The buy it now is not the problem as they are dealers who have to follow the pricing guides laid down by HK and UK K&C operations. I was addressing the speculators and others of similar ilk who up prices hugely and are often not really collectors or just don't care about who they prey on.
Mitch

 

[Capitolron]

I know - I should pass on this thread - but, the tone requires a comment.

King & Country has longed supported the secondary market due to the fact that if someone values one their item at a higher price - it naturally adds value to the overall collection or even all products of the company. Andy and I have discussed in length in the past the "Secondary Market" issue and had very interesting discussions on what is going on the Toy Soldier World. The fact is if someone is willing to purchase a item for more than the retail price then that decision is there own. Many collectors today are completeist - and simply want every thing in what they are collecting (I have to admit - that I fall in this classification myself with Napoleonics) - But, if you did not start collecting in 1999 or earlier - you may not know what was produced in the beginning of the K&C Range. I know that is one thing that Andy addresses with every now and then putting a "RETIRED" figure in his promotion. It draws the collectors attention to the range and is also cheaper than trying to reprint every old promotional brochure they ever made.

I disagree with the usually bashing of people who sell items on Ebay. I know it has real snob appeal to hold one's self above all and sneer at other collectors on what / how they deal with their collections. But, I believe the OPEN MARKET is just that - and people who want to purchase items - can at the ebay price listed or pass and move on. No one has the right to tell another collector - what or how he must handle his property or if he wants to deal / make a profit with his items in his collection or what he may have purchased.

My thoughts on an Sunday afternoon

 

[Mitch]

if the snob appeal was aimed at my comments then you are right out of order. It has nothing to do with it at all and, just because I wish not to buy on such places does not allow anyone to infer I am a snob.

If you think, or anyone else, that people are not being taken advantage of by some of the tactics used for selling on the secondary market by some then we will have to differ in how we see things and move on. If you think though, using the recent figarti tiger as an exempler, bought at $200 dollars or similar and placed within a week on e-bay with a starting price of $800 is good for the hobby I would think you and Andy are outrageous. I would rather have the tag of snob than do that when its this fleecing the life out of people that causes more problems for the hobby IMO
Mitch

 

[Beaufighter]

I know - I should pass on this thread - but, the tone requires a comment.

King & Country has longed supported the secondary market due to the fact that if someone values one their item at a higher price - it naturally adds value to the overall collection or even all products of the company. Andy and I have discussed in length in the past the "Secondary Market" issue and had very interesting discussions on what is going on the Toy Soldier World. The fact is if someone is willing to purchase a item for more than the retail price then that decision is there own. Many collectors today are completeist - and simply want every thing in what they are collecting (I have to admit - that I fall in this classification myself with Napoleonics) - But, if you did not start collecting in 1999 or earlier - you may not know what was produced in the beginning of the K&C Range. I that is one thing that Andy addresses with every now and then putting a "RETIRED" figure in his promotion. It draws the collectors attention to the range and is also cheaper than trying to reprint every old promotional brochure they ever made.

I disagree with the usually bashing of people who sell items on Ebay. I know it has real snob appeal to hold one's self above all and sneer at other collectors on what / how they deal with their collections. But, I believe the OPEN MARKET is just that - and people who want to purchase items - can at the ebay price listed or pass and move on. No one has the right to tell another collector - what or how he must handle his property or if he wants to deal / make a profit with his items in his collection or what he may have purchased.

My thoughts on an Sunday afternoon

Ron,

An extremely fair, impartial (surprisingly so) and valid summary. Every time I happen to read something regarding this "hot topic", it just sucks the Toy Soldier energy out of me. The same "issues" exist in all of the hobbies I have enjoyed from aviation art, instruments/memorabilia (have to contend with museums bidding against you now) just to name a few. My time is better spent enjoying the friends I have met via this hobby and trading with them. I have found that these "alliances" have enabled me to acquire some nice older items/sets while enhancing the collecting experience. I love that fact that Andy and K&C include some older sets in their superbe marketing material which I also collect.

Horrido,
Marc

 

[waynepoo]

No one forces anyone to buy anything anywhere, if some are stupid enough to pay crazy prices for some item then that's their right to be stupid.{sm4}{sm4}
Wayne.

 

[damian]

if the snob appeal was aimed at my comments then you are right out of order. It has nothing to do with it at all and, just because I wish not to buy on such places does not allow anyone to infer I am a snob.

If you think, or anyone else, that people are not being taken advantage of by some of the tactics used for selling on the secondary market by some then we will have to differ in how we see things and move on. If you think though, using the recent figarti tiger as an exempler, bought at $200 dollars or similar and placed within a week on e-bay with a starting price of $800 is good for the hobby I would think you and Andy are outrageous. I would rather have the tag of snob than do that when its this fleecing the life out of people that causes more problems for the hobby IMO
Mitch

Wow I totally agree with another post by Mitch in less than two months.