Kaisers staffwagon (2 Viewers)

[Combat]

Well, here's the question regarding "reality or creativity" as you put it. K & C slogan is "authentic hand-made history." If there is creativity or artistic license here (and I don't know that there is or isn't), can it really be said that it's either "authentic" or "history." I would think not.

At the very least, if there is artistic license here (or in any other model), then I think that fact should be disclosed to the consumer. Any other company in any industry has to disclose or back up its claims so why not K & C or any other toy soldier manufacturer.

Although it looks to be a very nice model, if it's "creativity," I don't think I'd want it.

This is not a new problem for KC, but one that has been discussed many times before. It is perplexing how or why they do this. Particularly since there are many "real" vehicles they could choose instead. Not to beat a dead horse, but KC advertising implies that these are representations of actual vehicles. Not fantasy items. Maybe not all collectors care so long as they look good, but some do and that should be made clear if that is the case.

 

[Currahee Chris]

This is not a new problem for KC, but one that has been discussed many times before. It is perplexing how or why they do this. Particularly since there are many "real" vehicles they could choose instead. Not to beat a dead horse, but KC advertising implies that these are representations of actual vehicles. Not fantasy items. Maybe not all collectors care so long as they look good, but some do and that should be made clear if that is the case.

Has anyone from KC officially addressed this issue (WW1 armored car and now looking like this staffwagen)yet? Or the issue of the assination plot using a WW1 map. These just seem like epic SNAFUs

 

[Combat]

Has anyone from KC officially addressed this issue (WW1 armored car and now looking like this staffwagen)yet? Or the issue of the assination plot using a WW1 map. These just seem like epic SNAFUs

I will defer to others if they know something differently, but my recollection is that Andy's response is to say they do their best, sometimes make mistakes, and if you don't like it, you don't have to buy it. However, I don't believe that addresses the specific concern relating to fantasy items that are marketed as though they really existed. Not just a mistake in accuracy, but entirely made up.

 

[thebritfarmer]

My concern is not so much whether it is based on a genuine vehicle or not but the fact that it looks like the side door would not open with that canopy attached.

 

[Currahee Chris]

I will defer to others if they know something differently, but my recollection is that Andy's response is to say they do their best, sometimes make mistakes, and if you don't like it, you don't have to buy it. However, I don't believe that addresses the specific concern relating to fantasy items that are marketed as though they really existed. Not just a mistake in accuracy, but entirely made up.

Got it. Yeah, I recall a firestorm of controversy when the armored car came out- couldn't recall what the official word was. I guess then the collective opinion of the forum here is telling us that this vehicle looks like either a.) it existed though not for the Kaiser or b.) this vehicle never existed at all.

i could see collector living with A if they so desired. If the case is B, that is a shame, especially at that price point.

Aesthetically, I will admit, I think it looks really nice- do agree it has the steampunk feel to it. Shame if it turns out to be a dud.

 

[Rob]

I will defer to others if they know something differently, but my recollection is that Andy's response is to say they do their best, sometimes make mistakes, and if you don't like it, you don't have to buy it. However, I don't believe that addresses the specific concern relating to fantasy items that are marketed as though they really existed. Not just a mistake in accuracy, but entirely made up.

But Doug (and I don't want to inflame anything but just put another point of view) I really don't have a problem with the 'If you don't like it don't buy it' term, and I've never really understood the upset about it. No one has to buy anything, no one has a gun to their head etc. Its just common sense isn't it, I absolutely hate peanut butter, so guess what I don't buy it!. But sometimes on here it comes across as people making grandiose condemnations of K&C when they really had no intention of buying the item anyway. Also do you not think that sometimes on here we get carried away with our own opinions a bit too much?. It does come across a bit like being up one's self a bit,(I'm not aiming that at anyone in particular by the way) its almost like people are summoning Andy here to explain himself type of thing, do you not think its a tad arrogant?.Like it or not there comes a point where you have to choose as with everything else, buy it or don't buy it. Sounds harsh perhaps but its the truth.

Just a different opinion of course.

Rob

 

[Currahee Chris]

I absolutely hate peanut butter

BLASPHEMY!! You are never welcome in my home!!

I'm sure if they mix up a Mars PB candy bar, you'd eat it??

I also hear that Mrs. Aniston has a voracious pb appetite/fetish

 

[Rob]

BLASPHEMY!! You are never welcome in my home!!

I'm sure if they mix up a Mars PB candy bar, you'd eat it??

I also hear that Mrs. Aniston has a voracious pb appetite/fetish

Yes I certainly would my friend..on both counts!!

Rob

 

[Combat]

But Doug (and I don't want to inflame anything but just put another point of view) I really don't have a problem with the 'If you don't like it don't buy it' term, and I've never really understood the upset about it. No one has to buy anything, no one has a gun to their head etc. Its just common sense isn't it, I absolutely hate peanut butter, so guess what I don't buy it!. But sometimes on here it comes across as people making grandiose condemnations of K&C when they really had no intention of buying the item anyway. Also do you not think that sometimes on here we get carried away with our own opinions a bit too much?. It does come across a bit like being up one's self a bit,(I'm not aiming that at anyone in particular by the way) its almost like people are summoning Andy here to explain himself type of thing, do you not think its a tad arrogant?.Like it or not there comes a point where you have to choose as with everything else, buy it or don't buy it. Sounds harsh perhaps but its the truth.

Just a different opinion of course.

Rob

Rob-

My concern is that KC advertises a product as though it actually existed, but produces a non-existent vehicle. If the collector knows that and still buys it because they like it that is fine. No one could have a problem with that. But many collectors may take KC at it's word and not realize the item is a fantasy piece. If they knew that information they might not buy it even if they liked it. I'm not passing judgment on collectors to buy what they like, only that they should not be misled when making purchasing decisions.

 

[MapleLeaf]

So did the armored car really existed??
Anybody knows for sure??

 

[thebritfarmer]

But Doug (and I don't want to inflame anything but just put another point of view) I really don't have a problem with the 'If you don't like it don't buy it' term, and I've never really understood the upset about it. No one has to buy anything, no one has a gun to their head etc. Its just common sense isn't it, I absolutely hate peanut butter, so guess what I don't buy it!. But sometimes on here it comes across as people making grandiose condemnations of K&C when they really had no intention of buying the item anyway. Also do you not think that sometimes on here we get carried away with our own opinions a bit too much?. It does come across a bit like being up one's self a bit,(I'm not aiming that at anyone in particular by the way) its almost like people are summoning Andy here to explain himself type of thing, do you not think its a tad arrogant?.Like it or not there comes a point where you have to choose as with everything else, buy it or don't buy it. Sounds harsh perhaps but its the truth.

Just a different opinion of course.

Rob

I think what it could be is that the usual answer is "if you don't like it don't buy it" instead of answering valid concerns that collectors may have. Some of us only have a picture to look at before we purchase an item (See my concern with the canopy blocking the door)It could be a camera angle but it is all I have to go on. If the answer I get is " don't buy it if you don't like it" that in my book is not good enough. It is perfectly valid as an answer if I just said I don't like it.

 

[jazzeum]

Rob-

My concern is that KC advertises a product as though it actually existed, but produces a non-existent vehicle. If the collector knows that and still buys it because they like it that is fine. No one could have a problem with that. But many collectors may take KC at it's word and not realize the item is a fantasy piece. If they knew that information they might not buy it even if they liked it. I'm not passing judgment on collectors to buy what they like, only that they should not be misled when making purchasing decisions.

Completely agree with this post. If it's not real or you've taken dramatic license, say so. As I mentioned earlier, companies have to make up their claims. Moreover, not saying otherwise is deceptive. It's not arrogant at all to be honest, open and forthright, for the love of God.

If you're going to make fantasy items, maybe Mattel would like to buy them.

 

[jazzeum]

So did the armored car really existed??
Anybody knows for sure??

That's the thing, nobody knows, and K & C is silent on the issue.

The silence is deafening.

 

[daruss]

Well, IMO i think items should be made as historically accurate as possible! There are so many other WWII vehicles or armoured cars that should have been made instead of that staffwagen!

 

[Rob]

I think what it could be is that the usual answer is "if you don't like it don't buy it" instead of answering valid concerns that collectors may have. Some of us only have a picture to look at before we purchase an item (See my concern with the canopy blocking the door)It could be a camera angle but it is all I have to go on. If the answer I get is " don't buy it if you don't like it" that in my book is not good enough. It is perfectly valid as an answer if I just said I don't like it.

Ah, but the thing is I do not think it is the usual answer myself, I think its an answer when the debate has either gone on so long that it starts to become tedious OR the debate has perhaps an underlying anti K&C current that some may deny but is in fact there.

Rob

 

[Rob]

Completely agree with this post. If it's not real or you've taken dramatic license, say so. As I mentioned earlier, companies have to make up their claims. Moreover, not saying otherwise is deceptive. It's not arrogant at all to be honest, open and forthright, for the love of God.

If you're going to make fantasy items, maybe Mattel would like to buy them.

'For the love of God' I didn't say it was arrogant to be honest and open at all did I?. I suggest its arrogant to say ' We will give Andy a day or two', a day or two or what Brad??. A day or two before he gets summoned here before some self appointed high court, maybe he has better things to do than pander to our discussions here.

Rob

 

[jazzeum]

Ah, but the thing is I do not think it is the usual answer myself, I think its an answer when the debate has either gone on so long that it starts to become tedious OR the debate has perhaps an underlying anti K&C current that some may deny but is in fact there.

Rob

Sorry but I compeletely disagree. I've been a K & C backer for many years and this is not anti-K & C but wanting to know whether this vehicle existed or not. Nobody has said it didn't but, then again, we can't find any evidence that it did. So, all we are asking is for K & C to say where this came from. It's not too much to ask for the underlying evidence.

If this fact or fantasy, that is all people want to know. When you put out a model with a price tag of $255, you should know whether it existed or not so you can make an evaluation as to whether you want to purchase it or not.

Nobody is taking K & C or any other company to task for minor errors. Those happen to everybody.

 

[Rob]

Sorry but I compeletely disagree. I've been a K & C backer for many years and this is not anti-K & C but wanting to know whether this vehicle existed or not. Nobody has said it didn't but, then again, we can't find any evidence that it did. So, all we are asking is for K & C to say where this came from. It's not too much to ask for the underlying evidence.

If this fact or fantasy, that is all people want to know. When you put out a model with a price tag of $255, you should know whether it existed or not so you can make an evaluation as to whether you want to purchase it or not.

Nobody is taking K & C or any other company to task for minor errors. Those happen to everybody.

I at no point said this discussion was anti K&C. I said that sometimes the term 'Don't like don't buy' is used when a discussion has clear anti K&C undertones. But you yourself have clearly demonstrated anti K&C feelings in the very recent past since you suddenly stopped backing them, so you can't really be surprised at the suggestion Brad.

Rob

 

[jazzeum]

But you yourself have clearly demonstrated anti K&C feelings in the very recent past since you suddenly stopped backing them, so you can't really be surprised at the suggestion Brad.

Rob

That's just utter nonsense Rob. Am I supposed to defend them at every opportunity where someone has criticism of the product. Sorry, but I'm not on the K & C payroll, although it may have seemed like that over the years. I have had issues recently with the SA set and have questions on the Staffwagon. As consumers, we shouldn't be expected to follow blindly but ask questions. We do that when buying any other product so why not do it here.

 

[Rob]

That's just utter nonsense Rob. Am I supposed to defend them at every opportunity where someone has criticism of the product. Sorry, but I'm not on the K & C payroll, although it may have seemed like that over the years. I have had issues recently with the SA set and have questions on the Staffwagon. As consumers, we shouldn't be expected to follow blindly but ask questions. We do that when buying any other product so why not do it here.

Yes we are free to question whatever we please, but it appears we are not free to use the term don't like don't buy. I've never suggested you or anyone else has to defend them, all I'm saying is your earlier post in which you pretty much gave Andy a couple of days to answer questions was pretty odd.

Rob