KC has fallen behind with value and quality (1 Viewer)

tryfon

Sergeant
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Messages
737
The older KC range were more dynamic, great battle poses, and value for money

now expensive, and pretty boring figures, I purchased the Greeks, no good, some had problem with shape and size like AG011, the bases are smaller, so fall over on even thing grass display mats

and shields are very shiny

Thomus Gunn has produced great quality and value for money items, shame KC does not go back to its roots even the new romans standard boring poses, no dynamic battle poses or unique
 
The older KC range were more dynamic, great battle poses, and value for money

now expensive, and pretty boring figures, I purchased the Greeks, no good, some had problem with shape and size like AG011, the bases are smaller, so fall over on even thing grass display mats

and shields are very shiny

Thomus Gunn has produced great quality and value for money items, shame KC does not go back to its roots even the new romans standard boring poses, no dynamic battle poses or unique

I note you posted this immeadiately after similar negative comments in another thread and also after having a go at CS Nap Russians.

Just a minor correction. K&C has produced four Romans in its latest series which has just started. It hardly seems reasonable to complain that there are no battle poses yet. As many Australian Roman collectors are aware there are many more figures to come in this series.

Have you ever thought about posting about what you do like as whenever you appear it is nothing but, to quote the legendary Oddball, "negative waves" ?
 
I note you posted this immeadiately after similar negative comments in another thread and also after having a go at CS Nap Russians.

Just a minor correction. K&C has produced four Romans in its latest series which has just started. It hardly seems reasonable to complain that there are no battle poses yet. As many Australian Roman collectors are aware there are many more figures to come in this series.

Have you ever thought about posting about what you do like as whenever you appear it is nothing but, to quote the legendary Oddball, "negative waves" ?

Hi mate

did not intend to be negative, just a thought, I have hundred of KC earlier American Civil war, roman empire, Napoleonic, fabulous figures
but I believe not the same now, it is an opinion, just like people complaining about the new TG war elephant, but I believe its a great piece.

The KC remark is fair, the bases are mach smaller, even the new upcoming mounted Napoleonic Hussars , very narrow thin bases. there is no harm is talking about the changes

and CS made a great Roman chariot the horses were great, but the mounted romans the horses were so small like ponies, again and opinion, I am a collector and have been over 30 years and have thousands of figures from many
makers who do make great items and at times terrible
 
Hi mate

did not intend to be negative, just a thought, I have hundred of KC earlier American Civil war, roman empire, Napoleonic, fabulous figures
but I believe not the same now, it is an opinion, just like people complaining about the new TG war elephant, but I believe its a great piece.

The KC remark is fair, the bases are mach smaller, even the new upcoming mounted Napoleonic Hussars , very narrow thin bases. there is no harm is talking about the changes

and CS made a great Roman chariot the horses were great, but the mounted romans the horses were so small like ponies, again and opinion, I am a collector and have been over 30 years and have thousands of figures from many
makers who do make great items and at times terrible

Sorry but most times you appear here it is all negative stuff. Your comments might be more appreciated if you actually had something positive to contribute occasionally. It seems you have a favourite brand and that is great as they produce some good figures but a little balance might help others take your comments seriously.

Mate.
 
Well, that's one collector's perspective...

No this is the perspective of many collectors, until 2015 all I collected was K & C and Britains, plus complimentary Conte. Now it is First Legion, T Gunn and John Jenkins.
Why?
K & C have got too expensive when compared with T Gunn and J Jenkins, when compared with quality, I am not sure the K & C quality has gone down or up by much but the other manufacturers has. The K & C prices have now moved up to near First Legion and I would rather a bit extra on F Legion Winter Napoleon figures than K & C.

K & C ranges are, in my opinion, stuck in a bit of rut, lot of same old same old styles and figures, US Paras [new] look like repaints, as are some of the new vehicles. New Israel range may appeal, but there were others like the Life of Jesus, King Arthur and the Dickens ranges, plus the Film link in range just does not do it for me and speaking to other people, them as well.

For example I collect the Battle of the Bulge range, 2016 releases were really poor and had a big price increase. Other ranges,
Medieval warriors - not a lot out lately, plus it is mixed with other periods such as the English Scottish war and King Arthur.
Napoleonic - bland and uninteresting recent releases.
German WW2 'Grey' vehicle sets - love these sets but we will have to see where they go...........
Buildings - the flat faced building are great, but look 'wrong' when next to each other as they have different design and sized pavements..............

Finally on K & C I see them going for prices way below what I paid, I buy for me but you like to think you are getting value for money. I have set myself a limit for there sets, for example the new winter FW190, I would not have paid the £259 in the UK, but at the show it was on sale for £180 and I snapped it up. Therefore I set a price for a set or just wait a few months and the prices drop from some dealers.

I am worried about what will happen to this company once Andy decides to call it a day and retire?

On another note I think as collectors we owe a big thanks to Andy, he has been the single person for me who done more for the toy soldier industry than anyone else in the last thirty years, pushing it forward and in a way forcing other companies in the industry to push themselves for better quality and standards of service.

Britains - quality is not great for me, prices gone up way above the quality, plus their delivery of new item is one of the poorest I have seen in anything, private and in my working life, They simply do not deliver, the new 88mm gun was first showed in picture around late 2014 or early 2015. Ranges have 'lost it'.
Zulu range is plainly boring now, War of the Nile has had very few releases, I started buying this range and the releases were so poor and infrequent I started on J Jenkins range and now I have three time more J Jenkins than Britain, because they are better and there were no releases from Britains.

Clash of Empires, as above, but the range jumps between periods and has not settled, now I thought they would concentrate on the period of around the battle for Fort Henry, I heard at an event they were looking at buildings/homestead and an attack on a homestead by raiding parties etc, plus the main battles.

History of the British Army etc - they exploded in price and the quality is the same [which is their USP], gloss painted and affordable, started at £9 and are now well over £22. They are simply just not worth it.

The manufacturers T Gunn, J Jenkins and First Legion are keeping me in the hobby.
 
Everybody has an opinion, and I'm sure Andy has read these posts and is taking copious notes. K&C doesn't need me to defend them, so I won't but I'll add to the discussion.

I could say the same thing about Thomas Gunn... they've creatively gone in a new direction with Romans and the Pacific (WWII) that I won't be following. First Legion has not entered my collection yet, and its been a while since Collectors Showcase has produced an addition to my collection, and Britains got me started in the hobby decades ago, but has failed to capture my attention in a decade. I wish them all well even though my vote is with my wallet.

I'd offer that Andy is probably the most accessible executive in any comparable industry or hobby. He's always out at the shows and events and will mix with collectors to gauge the market. Being basically an anonymous Keyboard Commando and dialing in a note that says "You're failing to inspire me" without articulating ideas or examples is poor form and is not likely to get the reaction you're hoping for.
 
Everybody has an opinion, and I'm sure Andy has read these posts and is taking copious notes. K&C doesn't need me to defend them, so I won't but I'll add to the discussion.

I could say the same thing about Thomas Gunn... they've creatively gone in a new direction with Romans and the Pacific (WWII) that I won't be following. First Legion has not entered my collection yet, and its been a while since Collectors Showcase has produced an addition to my collection, and Britains got me started in the hobby decades ago, but has failed to capture my attention in a decade. I wish them all well even though my vote is with my wallet.

I'd offer that Andy is probably the most accessible executive in any comparable industry or hobby. He's always out at the shows and events and will mix with collectors to gauge the market. Being basically an anonymous Keyboard Commando and dialing in a note that says "You're failing to inspire me" without articulating ideas or examples is poor form and is not likely to get the reaction you're hoping for.

I agree with what you say about Andy, he is accessible and I have seen items which I can 'sort of' link to conversations of a group of collectors and Andy at events I have been at.

I do object to your phase 'keyboard commandos', putting your opinion across is what the forum is about, probably less that 50% of collectors get to go to the shows and have the chance to meet with Andy, the forum and via their keyboard is the only way they can get their views out there to fellow collectors.
 
The K&C Romans are very well done IMO. I find them more accurate than the TG Romans; where the Scutum is too wide, making it look square rather than rectangular. K&C got it right, even in the 2001 releases. The K&C Barbarians were also very well done and are worthy opponents for the Romans. The FL Romans are very good but very expensive. I think the ROI of K&C figures long term will be better than either FL or TG. K&C's best figures sell for 2 to 3X their selling price of 16 years ago. K&C also has great brand recognition; which Andy has built and maintained very well over 3 decades. Time will tell where TG and FL will be in 30+ years; perhaps with Figarti and Honor Bound!
 
You got to admit Andy's King and Country has been the tip of the spear in leading the toy soldier world. First his large figures, which I absolutely love, the massive following for WWII, tapping the Australian marketing and now six day war stuff. KC occupies 80% of my collection. Other companies, JJD (recent desert Australian cars), CS and TGM follow his wake. A big mahalo (thank-you in Hawaiian) Andy and KC. Bravo.
 
Just my opinion. I've been collecting for many years. Each manufacturer has their own style. You either love them or hate them. K&C makes some amazing figures when they are displayed with other K&C. I really don't care much about scale or that every detail is historically correct. I buy what I like.
 
The older KC range were more dynamic, great battle poses, and value for money

now expensive, and pretty boring figures, I purchased the Greeks, no good, some had problem with shape and size like AG011, the bases are smaller, so fall over on even thing grass display mats

and shields are very shiny

Thomus Gunn has produced great quality and value for money items, shame KC does not go back to its roots even the new romans standard boring poses, no dynamic battle poses or unique

Respectfully, if you post criticism like this, you ought to post pics in support of your analysis. To be honest, your "Australian" isn't the best. If you intend to communicate effectively and gain assent for your views, it's incumbent on you to flesh out your ideas. I'm certainly open-minded in regard to your thoughts, as I'm confident are many of the other readers. You can consider the extra effort a sort of public service.:)

-Moe
 
Interesting comments made by this thread poster as he is surely entitled to his own opinion. For myself first discovering K&C 10 years ago I see detail and quality has steadily improved
over the years, not gone down.The early K&C figures from say the year 2000 did not have the detail and painting that they now have . A definite clear cut improvement. I would add even the
boxes for the figures have greatly improved over years past with the sturdier, Red bottom boxes now in use for a few years now. Breakage of figures and vehicles in the last years has been
next to none for the most part......A big plus in my book ! The one Con is pricing has increased over the years due to increased manufacturing and Labor costs.
All in all if K&C value and quality has gone done as Tryfon mentioned, I don't think the brand would be as Large as it is today, with new monthly releases still coming out each and every month !
Just my own take on the subject.

Wayne
 
Last edited:
Interesting comments made by this thread poster as he is surely entitled to his own opinion. For myself first discovering K&C 10 years ago I see detail and quality has steadily improved
over the years, not gone down.The early K&C figures from say the year 2000 did not have the detail and painting that they now have . A definite clear cut improvement. I would add even the
boxes for the figures have greatly improved over years past with the sturdier, Red bottom boxes now in use for a few years now. Breakage of figures and vehicles in the last years has been
next to none for the most part......A big plus in my book ! The one Con is pricing has increased over the years due to increased manufacturing and Labor costs.
All in all if K&C value and quality has gone done as Tryfon mentioned, I don't think the brand would be as Large as it is today, with new monthly releases coming out each and every month !
Just my .02 Cents on said matter.

Wayne

The problem arises though when the only K & C series you collect has turned into tourist fodder ( lesser quality and repeats of earlier sculpts ) and despite repeated assuarances that new figures will be coming very soon nothing ever appears , instead we get repeated ecw , robin hood and other throwaway ranges released month after month that no serious collector can afford to purchase over the same period .
 
The problem arises though when the only K & C series you collect has turned into tourist fodder ( lesser quality and repeats of earlier sculpts ) and despite repeated assuarances that new figures will be coming very soon nothing ever appears , instead we get repeated ecw , robin hood and other throwaway ranges released month after month that no serious collector can afford to purchase over the same period .

I don't consider Robin Hood a throwaway range, I rather enjoy it and it is quite affordable and I am about as serious as a collector as you can get so I am not sure I understand your point?
 
The problem arises though when[...]we get repeated ecw , robin hood and other throwaway ranges released month after month that no serious collector can afford to purchase over the same period.

A significant minority of collectors have similar sentiments regarding WW2 Germans.

-Moe
 
Respectfully, if you post criticism like this, you ought to post pics in support of your analysis. To be honest, your "Australian" isn't the best. If you intend to communicate effectively and gain assent for your views, it's incumbent on you to flesh out your ideas. I'm certainly open-minded in regard to your thoughts, as I'm confident are many of the other readers. You can consider the extra effort a sort of public service.:)

-Moe

Moe mate,
What you have to remember cobber, is that there are "Australians" and then there are "Other Australians".{sm4} I would be interested to know if this Tryfon bloke asked these questions of Andy of K&C when he was in the Land Downunder. Andy visited the four major capital cities of Brisbane, Sydney, Adelaide and Melbourne. If he was unable to get to one of these venues because OZ is a Big Country, then an email to Andy, which would have had a reply within 24 hours, would have been appropriate.
Just my two bobs worth. Cheers Howard
 
It's unfair to say KnC has slipped interns of quality, in fact I'd say that they've certainly stepped up their game somewhat.

From a $ point of view, the KnC price point is still one I'm happy to pay for, although I've now also started FL as paying the extra few dollars gives me a nice surprise every now and again. Again for me personally, JJD offer the best $ to quality ratio.

What needs to be taken into consideration is the fact that JJD and TG have also stepped up their game, although it's certainly a subjective argument to say who has stepped it up the most and may/may not be siphoning customers away from another brand.

KnC is certainly the most diverse brand and it often surprises me that people collect Robin Hood or the Life of Jesus figures, when you consider the production run of these figures is in the hundreds, KnC must be happy with their returns.

It's impossible for a thread like this to end well unfortunately and the opening post is way too combative.

Personally, I still collect KnC figures and will continue to do so.
 
I'm not a huge K&C collector (I have picked up a set here and there lately) but I for one think the quality has improved, at least on WWII, I haven't a clue as far as other ranges but in the last year the black outlining has become less and less and more of a blended uniform without the lines, not on all of them mind you but certainly there has been much more of an effort to go away from the outlining, so again my tuppence worth is I think the quality has improved for what it's worth...Sammy
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top