Lance Armstrong Interview with Oprah Winfrey (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter The Military Workshop
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The Military Workshop
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Whilst not in any way trying to lessen his role it was very much a team effort and there were obviously many team members and support staff who also benefited from the wins and knew what was going on. Since he got the glory and financial benefits he is the biggest to fall but surprised not seen more about the knowledge of other team members. As far as I am aware he would not keep all the winnings himself.
Interesting to see South Australian Govt talking about trying to get several millions in appearance fees returned. That was what he was paid to participate in three Tours Down Under. His appearances attracted more overseas entrants and drew bigger crowds. Since he provided what he was sponsored to do I am not so sure that would be such a strong case as the sponsors who had to pay him based on winning Tour De France and other events.
Interesting to see South Australian Govt talking about trying to get several millions in appearance fees returned. That was what he was paid to participate in three Tours Down Under. His appearances attracted more overseas entrants and drew bigger crowds. Since he provided what he was sponsored to do I am not so sure that would be such a strong case as the sponsors who had to pay him based on winning Tour De France and other events.
The Military Workshop
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I think he still has plenty of money so will need a few tins to support himself.
Here's another thought.
What about people who bought memorabilia such as his signed framed cycling jerseys etc ? Guess they wont be too happy having them in the house and no re-sale value.
Here's another thought.
What about people who bought memorabilia such as his signed framed cycling jerseys etc ? Guess they wont be too happy having them in the house and no re-sale value.
The Military Workshop
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This article is the NY Times was just mentioned in a TV discussion about Armstrong and suggests he might be looking to name the people higher up in the team (including owner) and cycling world but perhaps not say anything about his fellow team members (I have seen it suggested they did not have much choice if they wanted to be in the the team).
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/15/s...estify-against-cycling-officials.html?hp&_r=0
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/15/s...estify-against-cycling-officials.html?hp&_r=0
Scott
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I never cared for the guy back when he left his wife and kids to run around with some model. The problem with this country is the media puts these sports clowns on some pedestal like they are some kind of god. I never saw any of his races, and now I'm glad I didn't waste my time.
P.T. Barnum would be proud. This guy was the ultimate CON MAN. Actually suing other people that accused him of cheating.
P.T. Barnum would be proud. This guy was the ultimate CON MAN. Actually suing other people that accused him of cheating.
theBaron
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Yes!
And I was at Citizens Bank Park the night Barry Bonds hit 744 off Jon Lieber of the Phils, and fans had hung a banner over the left field fence that read, "Aaron Did It With Class, Ruth Did It With Hot Dogs And Beer. What Did You Use, Barry?" ESPN cut it out of the replay that night on their broadcasts. It was a riot.
Prost!
Brad
OzDigger
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With his admission of guilt there will be a lineup of those sued people suing Armstrong, and we may see some perjury actions against him.
NY Collector
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This is a Soldier site isn't it ?? So why post about this guy .......
Toy Soldier Brigade
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Cycling is on my list of fake sports. Never wasted my valuable time watching, and never really cared for Armstrongs personality. Now if he rode his bike over something like Niagra Falls I may watch it.
Beaufighter
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Cycling is a brutally tough sport with no real "off-season" at all so I will disagree with you 100%. I love watching it too whether on TV or live. Armstrong may be of very poor character but at least he helped start LIVESTRONG which has helped and will help many more people in dire need which is more than most people have done in their lives.
~Marc
The Military Workshop
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Or did you mean hot dogs and beer when you are on a train !!!.
Mitch
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I kind of know what you mean but, I would regularly knock up 60/70 miles on a morning and, do 20/30 on an evening when I cycled so, I know what actually goes into long distance cycling. Its hard in one respect so, those who don't feel the need to abuse the drugs have my respect as athletes. I have never been one to fawn at the feet of so called stars of any descript so, Armstrong was never someone who got my attention apart from the fact he was winning regularly (now we know why!!!) He is the most well know liar and cheat so, attention is on him but, sadly, I am quite sure this was endemic and not isolated in the sport so, its ruined it for a lot of people.
Mind, I would pay money to see the Niagra falls event!!
Mitch
Mind, I would pay money to see the Niagra falls event!!
Mitch
The Military Workshop
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The following is from another NY Times article (15 JAN) and gives a good idea of what was happening with some other teams (German and Dutch)around same time (ie 1997 - 2007).
Jaksche, 36, is among the riders trying to break the wall of silence, known as omertà, that has long muffled any discussion of doping in cycling. He is studying economics at the University of Innsbruck, in Austria, and said his education helped him understand what he experienced as a cyclist.
“Corporate sponsors, like all companies, are looking for high return on investment,” he said. “In sports, winning provides that return, and doping increases the chances of winning. So the message that, directly or indirectly, sponsors give athletes is simple: we want you to win, and in order to do that you can do whatever you want. As long as you don’t get caught.”
Jaksche’s cycling team was sponsored by Deutsche Telekom/T-Mobile. In 1997, the team’s lead rider, Jan Ullrich, became the first German to win the Tour de France. Less than two years later, in June 1999, the weekly magazine Der Spiegel published an article suggesting Ullrich and his team had engaged in systematic doping.
“We had just finished the Tour of Germany and were driving to Switzerland for the Swiss Tour when the article hit the newsstands,” Jaksche said. “I was in a car with Ullrich and the press officer that Telekom assigned to us, and I remember him telling us how to handle the press. They did not want to find out if Der Spiegel’s accusations were true or false. They never made any attempt to verify the allegations. In fact, they must have assumed they were right, because the only countermeasure they took was to make sure that none of us would say anything compromising.
“It was omertà all the way. The reason? With Ullrich’s success in the Tour, a relatively small amount of money had produced a huge marketing return. For them, it was an extraordinarily successful business model and they didn’t want to change it or, worse, ruin it.”
Jaksche testified to the German authorities that doping was team policy. Riders who wanted the banned blood-booster EPO, steroids or growth hormones could ask the team doctors. According to the cyclist’s sworn testimony, the team manager, Walter Godefroot, was aware of this.
Nobody asked Jaksche if the sponsor knew that doping was systematic, but a prosecutor in Bavaria opened an investigation against him for suspected fraud. In his report, the prosecutor withdrew the charge, stating that all the parties involved — the team and the sponsor — must have known about doping, so there could not have been any fraud.
In a statement, Deutsche Telekom said: “As a sports sponsor, Deutsche Telekom fundamentally disapproves of any type of doping. Therefore, in 2007, we decided to discontinue our involvement in cycling, as we, as a sponsor, had to realize that cycling was unable to come to terms with the doping issue. Deutsche Telekom, as a sponsor, was at no time informed about any doping activities.”
Although a special independent committee that investigated the matter was unable to determine whether the top executives of Deutsche Telekom/T-Mobile knew about doping in the team, the committee’s report criticized the company.
“What interested the sponsor in the first place was not a doping-free sport,” the report said. The contract was terminated, it said, “only when it stopped enhancing the corporate image.”
“When the two leading riders, Jan Ullrich and Óscar Sevilla, along with Ullrich’s carer Rudy Pevenage, were suspended, the limit had not yet been reached. When Sergie Honchar was suspended on 11 May 2007 and Patrik Sinkewitz’s blood test was found positive on 8 June 2007, nothing happened. It was not until 27 November 2007 that Deutsche Telekom announced that its executive board was terminating its sponsorship arrangement. Deutsche Telekom, which had been involved in professional cycling since 1991, had decided to put its money elsewhere.”
A July 2008 report on the Ullrich affair by the B.K.A., the equivalent of the F.B.I. in Germany, concluded that “it can be assumed” that T-Mobile was informed of doping within the team.
The antidoping officials’ case against Armstrong, published in October, included statements from several cyclists who admitted taking banned substances. The testimony of the American Levi Leipheimer, the bronze medalist in the 2008 Olympics, was among them. He admitted to using EPO since 1999, when he rode with the Saturn team, but also described the following years with the team sponsored by the Dutch banking group Rabobank.
“I continued to use EPO while with Rabobank in 2002, 2003 and 2004, and was also assisted in using it by the Rabobank team doctor, from whom I purchased EPO,” Leipheimer said. “During my time at Rabobank, I was aware that [another] rider was using EPO, and on several occasions, we discussed his EPO use.”
A few days after that affidavit was made public by Usada, Rabobank announced that it was withdrawing from cycling because it “was no longer convinced that the international professional world of cycling can make this a clean and fair sport.”
But for years, riders on the cycling team sponsored by Rabobank were linked to doping.
The former team director Theo de Rooij recently told a Dutch newspaper that while he was there, riders were allowed to arrange for their own medical care and it was their responsibility to determine “how far they wanted to go.” In the years that de Rooij managed the team, the Rabobank riders Thomas Dekker, Denis Menchov, Michael Boogerd and Michael Rasmussen were named in connection to doping investigations. They all denied taking any illegal substances.
Rabobank has said that things changed with the departure of de Rooij in the summer of 2007. But soon after he left, Dekker was found to have abnormal blood values, and in 2010 Menchov was caught talking to his manager about the need to have his teammates treated by a notorious doping expert. In December 2012, the international cycling union opened a doping case against Carlos Barredo, accusing him of having used performance-enhancing drugs.
“In my entire career, I never had a sponsor asking me any question about doping,” Jaksche said. “They are only good at covering their back, for example through contracts with built-in deniability.”
Rabobank cyclists were asked to sign a contract said that included a confidentiality clause pertaining to doping. It said that the rider “will not at present nor in the future make any disclosure to third parties except with the explicit permission of the employer about any matter directly or indirectly tied to ... the alleged use of banned substances.”
The contract clause, Rabobank said in a statement Monday, “is a standard clause, which is intended to prevent leakage of company secrets.”
“Rabobank Cycling Teams (now called Blanco Procycling Team) relieve employees from this confidentiality clause with respect to statements to research bodies on doping.”
Jaksche, 36, is among the riders trying to break the wall of silence, known as omertà, that has long muffled any discussion of doping in cycling. He is studying economics at the University of Innsbruck, in Austria, and said his education helped him understand what he experienced as a cyclist.
“Corporate sponsors, like all companies, are looking for high return on investment,” he said. “In sports, winning provides that return, and doping increases the chances of winning. So the message that, directly or indirectly, sponsors give athletes is simple: we want you to win, and in order to do that you can do whatever you want. As long as you don’t get caught.”
Jaksche’s cycling team was sponsored by Deutsche Telekom/T-Mobile. In 1997, the team’s lead rider, Jan Ullrich, became the first German to win the Tour de France. Less than two years later, in June 1999, the weekly magazine Der Spiegel published an article suggesting Ullrich and his team had engaged in systematic doping.
“We had just finished the Tour of Germany and were driving to Switzerland for the Swiss Tour when the article hit the newsstands,” Jaksche said. “I was in a car with Ullrich and the press officer that Telekom assigned to us, and I remember him telling us how to handle the press. They did not want to find out if Der Spiegel’s accusations were true or false. They never made any attempt to verify the allegations. In fact, they must have assumed they were right, because the only countermeasure they took was to make sure that none of us would say anything compromising.
“It was omertà all the way. The reason? With Ullrich’s success in the Tour, a relatively small amount of money had produced a huge marketing return. For them, it was an extraordinarily successful business model and they didn’t want to change it or, worse, ruin it.”
Jaksche testified to the German authorities that doping was team policy. Riders who wanted the banned blood-booster EPO, steroids or growth hormones could ask the team doctors. According to the cyclist’s sworn testimony, the team manager, Walter Godefroot, was aware of this.
Nobody asked Jaksche if the sponsor knew that doping was systematic, but a prosecutor in Bavaria opened an investigation against him for suspected fraud. In his report, the prosecutor withdrew the charge, stating that all the parties involved — the team and the sponsor — must have known about doping, so there could not have been any fraud.
In a statement, Deutsche Telekom said: “As a sports sponsor, Deutsche Telekom fundamentally disapproves of any type of doping. Therefore, in 2007, we decided to discontinue our involvement in cycling, as we, as a sponsor, had to realize that cycling was unable to come to terms with the doping issue. Deutsche Telekom, as a sponsor, was at no time informed about any doping activities.”
Although a special independent committee that investigated the matter was unable to determine whether the top executives of Deutsche Telekom/T-Mobile knew about doping in the team, the committee’s report criticized the company.
“What interested the sponsor in the first place was not a doping-free sport,” the report said. The contract was terminated, it said, “only when it stopped enhancing the corporate image.”
“When the two leading riders, Jan Ullrich and Óscar Sevilla, along with Ullrich’s carer Rudy Pevenage, were suspended, the limit had not yet been reached. When Sergie Honchar was suspended on 11 May 2007 and Patrik Sinkewitz’s blood test was found positive on 8 June 2007, nothing happened. It was not until 27 November 2007 that Deutsche Telekom announced that its executive board was terminating its sponsorship arrangement. Deutsche Telekom, which had been involved in professional cycling since 1991, had decided to put its money elsewhere.”
A July 2008 report on the Ullrich affair by the B.K.A., the equivalent of the F.B.I. in Germany, concluded that “it can be assumed” that T-Mobile was informed of doping within the team.
The antidoping officials’ case against Armstrong, published in October, included statements from several cyclists who admitted taking banned substances. The testimony of the American Levi Leipheimer, the bronze medalist in the 2008 Olympics, was among them. He admitted to using EPO since 1999, when he rode with the Saturn team, but also described the following years with the team sponsored by the Dutch banking group Rabobank.
“I continued to use EPO while with Rabobank in 2002, 2003 and 2004, and was also assisted in using it by the Rabobank team doctor, from whom I purchased EPO,” Leipheimer said. “During my time at Rabobank, I was aware that [another] rider was using EPO, and on several occasions, we discussed his EPO use.”
A few days after that affidavit was made public by Usada, Rabobank announced that it was withdrawing from cycling because it “was no longer convinced that the international professional world of cycling can make this a clean and fair sport.”
But for years, riders on the cycling team sponsored by Rabobank were linked to doping.
The former team director Theo de Rooij recently told a Dutch newspaper that while he was there, riders were allowed to arrange for their own medical care and it was their responsibility to determine “how far they wanted to go.” In the years that de Rooij managed the team, the Rabobank riders Thomas Dekker, Denis Menchov, Michael Boogerd and Michael Rasmussen were named in connection to doping investigations. They all denied taking any illegal substances.
Rabobank has said that things changed with the departure of de Rooij in the summer of 2007. But soon after he left, Dekker was found to have abnormal blood values, and in 2010 Menchov was caught talking to his manager about the need to have his teammates treated by a notorious doping expert. In December 2012, the international cycling union opened a doping case against Carlos Barredo, accusing him of having used performance-enhancing drugs.
“In my entire career, I never had a sponsor asking me any question about doping,” Jaksche said. “They are only good at covering their back, for example through contracts with built-in deniability.”
Rabobank cyclists were asked to sign a contract said that included a confidentiality clause pertaining to doping. It said that the rider “will not at present nor in the future make any disclosure to third parties except with the explicit permission of the employer about any matter directly or indirectly tied to ... the alleged use of banned substances.”
The contract clause, Rabobank said in a statement Monday, “is a standard clause, which is intended to prevent leakage of company secrets.”
“Rabobank Cycling Teams (now called Blanco Procycling Team) relieve employees from this confidentiality clause with respect to statements to research bodies on doping.”
mikemiller1955
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Toy Soldier Brigade
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I never felt the need to transfuse all of my blood, and inject myself with who knows what Frankenstein cocktail he was using when i ride a bike. I find that a few baseball cards in my spokes makes me a little faster.
It,s ironic that his charity wouldn't even exist if he hadn't gotten cancer and become a ridgling from all the juice he was injecting himself with.
It,s ironic that his charity wouldn't even exist if he hadn't gotten cancer and become a ridgling from all the juice he was injecting himself with.
Rob
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I saw a clip of him at home a while back and on the walls were all his winners jerseys all framed etc, I wonder how it feels now that they are all void and mean nothing anymore, stripped of his titles, stripped of his legend and stripped of respect.
Rob
Rob
