Matte Durbar Series - A Critique (1 Viewer)

[wadepat]

Gentle Friends,

In an earlier post, I made reference to creating a thread devoted to evaluating and discussing the new line of W. Britains matte finished Delhi Durbar figures. In particular, I indicated I would attempt to provide you with my impressions, my assessment, and my thoughts regarding the new figures. I make no claim to being a toy soldier expert or to being an authority on the Delhi Durbar. Instead, I am a simple collector who is fascinated by the Durbar events and one who is drawn to the Durbar figures.

As a place to begin my discussion, I would like to better acquaint you with some of my biases and preferences. Without a clear knowledge of my preferences, it is difficult to fully and accurately evaluate the merits of my thoughts.

I am a collector who has a history of embracing diversity in my collection. My collection is composed of a wide variety of figures representing numerous eras and multiple manufacturers. I collect both matte finished figures and traditional glossy style figures. When I was originally drawn back into the hobby in the late 1980s, I was extremely attracted to the highly detailed matte finished figures, especially figures in combat poses. For several years, I primarily collected the matte figures and only paid scant attention to glossy figures. My primary focus was on ACW and WWII. During this time, I was only purchasing from two dealers, both of whom carried extensive lines of matte figures and only a small number of glossy figures. Consequently, I did not realize that my dealers’ inventories provided me with parameters that restricted my knowledge and awareness of the wide variety of toy soldiers available in the marketplace.

In the mid 1990s, I became aware of more and more choices for collectors. And, as I became aware of these choices, I began to experience an expansion of my interests. As my interests expanded, I added to my collection many figures of differing eras produced by a wide variety of manufacturers. Also, slowly, but surely, I was becoming increasingly interested in ceremonial events and glossy figures. Further exploration of my growing interests resulted in the discovery of the Delhi Durbar, which has now become my passion. As a result of this passion, I have developed strong opinions concerning how the Durbar should be presented through the form of toy soldiers. It is these strong opinions that motivate me to initiate this thread and to submit for your examination and response my assessment of the new W. Britains line of matte Delhi Durbar figures.

In my next post, I shall discuss my perceptions of the favorable features I believe are exhibited in the new Britains figures. Later, I shall discuss elements of the new line that cause me concern. As my discussion progresses, I will attempt to illustrate some of my points using a few photographs of figures contained in my personal collection of Delhi Durbar figures. And,…as is usual, I invite the responses of any interested collectors.

In order to set the stage for my remarks, I am posting below a few photos of portions of my Durbar collection. The photos are:

Photo #1: Delhi Durbar figures by W. Britains. If you look closely, in addition to the Britains figures, you will find two additional sets of figures in this picture that were produced by Marlborough (set #D13, 15th Ludhiana Sikhs Colour Party & set #D31, First Skinners Horse, 1900).

Photo #2: Set #D58, the Dancing Horse of Bombay, by Marlborough.

Photo #3: Set #131, Lt. Governor of the Punjab, by William Hocker.

Photo #4: Set #118, Cutch Music Courtship; set #113, Cutch Spear Bearers; and set #229, Silver Horns Band from Cutch. All these sets are produced by Beau Geste.

Photo #5: Set #192, Palanquin of Jhodpur, with Maharani by Beau Geste.

Warmest personal regards,

Pat

 

[wadepat]

Gentle Friends,

For months, I have been anxiously waiting for the release of the Britains new line of Delhi Durbar figures. I have studied the photos of the proposed figures and I have had a brief opportunity to examine the actual figures at the OTSN in Chicago. I find much merit in what I have observed.

Six of the seven initial figures are based on color plates found in Mortimer Menpes book that is simply titled: Durbar. Contained within the book are 100 glossy plates of individuals, groups, and events illustrating the grandeur of the 1903 Durbar. In my opinion, utilization of this resource, and the pictures contained within it, for the development of a Durbar line is not only appropriate, it is exciting.

The new figures are sculpted by Alan Ball, a most talented toy soldier artist. His talent is clearly demonstrated in the first elephant in the new series, the Jaipur Elephant. The elephant is a limited edition set that sets the stage for the release of future Durbar elephants and the price, when compared to prices of competing manufacturers, appears to be quite competitive.

The elephant is very nicely proportioned. His back is slightly rounded and it is not presented as a flat surface on which to place a howdah as are some Durbar elephants produced by other manufacturers. The figures riding the elephant provide great animation to the set and they compliment the sculpting of the elephant.

The poses of the individual figures are interesting and realistic. The beggar, the tailor, and the woman shielding her face from the sun will add much flavor to a Durbar display. Lord Kitchener is presented as a mounted figure providing a two fingered salute to troops or other significant parties. The Lord Kitchener figure is already available for purchase from your favorite Britains dealer. I have purchased this figure and I am very pleased with it.

All the figures in the line are presented in a matte finish. The painting is effective and of high quality. In my opinion, collectors who favor a matte finish will be pleasantly impressed with these figures.

As a final plus point, it is my understanding that Britains has a commitment to issue additional Durbar figures and to release them on a timely schedule. Such a commitment is highly appreciated by Durbar collectors.

Below, you should find a few photos that I took at OTSN of the new Britains figures. Please forgive the quality of my photographs. They were hurriedly taken in a crowded room.

Warmest personal regards,

Pat

 

[wadepat]

Gentle Friends,

In my last post, I attempted to summarize the many positive qualities of Britains new line of Durbar figures. I hope I have been fair in my assessment and clear in my presentation of the merits of these exciting new figures. However, you know I would not have initiated this thread if I did not have concerns about the new Durbar line.

My concerns emerge from my consideration of the following questions:

1. Do the new figures compliment the previous line of Britains Durbar figures?

2. Do the new figures effectively communicate the style, spirit, and excitement of the actual Durbar?

3. Do the figures compliment or conflict with Durbar figures produced by other manufacturers?

Let me discuss these questions one at a time.

Do the new figures compliment the previous line of Britains Durbar figures?

The answer to the above question is clearly no. The earlier series of Durbar figures were produced with a glossy finish whereas the newer figures are presented with a matte finish. Attempting to combine the two sets of figures is a bit like wearing one shiny new shoe on one foot and a scuffed old shoe on the other. Simply stated, they do not go together.

The traditional Durbar collector has usually spent great time and money to acquire the glossy Durbar sets and the decision to release new figures in matte finish leaves the traditional collector feeling somewhat abandoned. Obviously, there is no intent on the part of W. Britains to abandon any loyal supporter. Rather, the decision to offer matte figures is a business decision. In today’s toy soldier collecting atmosphere, a matte finish seems to be preferred by more collectors and offering Durbar figures with a matte finish may attract new collectors to the line. But, will it attract more new collectors at the expense of losing traditional collectors? I don’t know. I believe the decision to offer Durbar figures with a matte finish is a bold, but very risky, action. Only the Britains sales data will provide a conclusive answer regarding the true consequences of this decision. My tentative conclusion is, due to the matte finish, the interest in and the sales of the matte series will slowly become increasingly disappointing.

Do the new figures effectively communicate the style, spirit, and excitement of the actual Durbar?

The answer to this question can only be found in the preferences of the individual collector. In my first post in this thread, I stated my preference. For the Durbar, I strongly favor a glossy finish.

From my perspective, the Durbars were huge celebrations characterized by pomp, extravagance, and boundless enthusiasm. The events were uplifting, exciting, and colorful. Huge parades were held that included highly and gaily decorated elephants, coaches, palanquins, litters, rickshaws, bullocks, camels, horses, and carriages. Hundreds of soldiers wearing extremely colorful uniforms marched in parades. Bands, dressed in a huge variety of bright and colorful garments, played special and exciting music. If nothing else, the Durbar was alive with glorious brilliant color. And, in my opinion, the matte finish falls very short of reproducing the spirit, and the color that characterizes the event. The matte finish, while realistic, is dull, flat, and somber.

The matte finish may more accurately communicate the reality of conducting a huge event in Delhi, India, in 1903. Given the setting, the large crowds, the numerous animals, and the waste produced by all of the above, the atmosphere, though exciting, must have also been dusty, dirty, and odoriferous. For the collector who prefers gritty realism, the matte finish may clearly be the preferred choice. For my tastes, I much prefer Durbar figures that appear bright, colorful, and uplifting. And, I submit that there are many collectors, like myself, who experience great disappointment with Britains choice of finish.

To further document my concerns, let me cite some comments communicated to me at OTSN. These comments were made after viewing the new Durbar figures.

Collector #1: This collector friend simply said, “I don’t like them.”

Collector #2: “The new figures do not have the display value of the earlier figures.” Also, he said, “The photographs I have seen of these figures look better than the actual figures.”

Dealer Friend #1: “I believe Britains made a huge mistake when they decided to offer the Durbar in matte. When you think of the Durbar, you think of bright colors, not dull, flat colors.”

Collector #3: “I strongly agree with you!” This statement was referencing the above comment made by my Dealer Friend.

Granted, the above quotes represent only a tiny group of collectors, but they are all serious, knowledgeable collectors who have enjoyed the hobby for many years. And, I most highly respect their opinions.

Do the figures compliment or conflict with Durbar figures produced by other manufacturers?

From my perspective, the new Durbar figures conflict with figures currently produced by other manufacturers. Presently available are Durbar figures produced by Beau Geste, Marlborough, and William Hocker. All three of these manufacturers provide Durbar figures only in a glossy finish.

In the past, I have been able to integrate Britains glossy Durbar figures with Marlborough figures as their style, finish, and scale are quite compatible. Unfortunately, I will no longer be able to continue this practice using the new matte finished figures.

In my opinion, the Beau Geste Durbar figures are in a class of their own. They are the brightest, most colorful, and most elegantly produced Durbar figures on the market. They are my hands down favorites of all the Durbar figures. Below, I have posted a photo I took at OTSN of the Britains Jaipur Elephant followed by a photo the the Beau Geste Jaipur Elephant in my collection. The Beau Geste Elephant is based on actual photographs taken at the Durbar of this elephant. The Britains Jaipur Elephant is based on a wonderfully colorful drawing by Mortimer Menpes. While there well might have been multiple elephants from Jaipur in the parades, thereby explaining why the two models are quite different, the difference in the brightness, color, intricate painting, etc. between the Durbar products of these two great manufacturers is clearly evident. These differences are also reflected in the prices of the two products, so I may be comparing apples to oranges. Nevertheless, I conclude the new Britains line is not compatible with the Beau Geste figures.

The final manufacturer that produces Durbar figures is William Hocker. Mr. Hocker’s figures represent the Durbar of 1877, not the 1903 Durbar. The Hocker figures are quite colorful and they are fashioned after the glossy finish found on traditional Britains toy soldiers. Given the fact that the Hocker figures represent a different event and they have a glossy finish, I cannot consider them compatible with the new Britains figures.

Well, gentle friends, there you have it. I am highly disappointed in the matte finish of the figures. While I find many merits in the new Durbar figures, the matte finish is a huge and overwhelming disappointment to me. So great is my disappointment, I may not pursue collecting these figures.

In my next post, I will make a few concluding remarks.

Warmest personal regards,

Pat

 

[wadepat]

Gentle Friends,

In the comments I have made thus far, I have attempted to be fair and honest. I do not wish to criticize the W. Britains Company or to discourage interested collectors from purchasing the new figures. I believe Britains has engaged in a huge gamble that their new Durbar figures will appeal to many new collectors and to collectors who have a clear preference for matte finished figures. I hope their gamble is rewarded and the new series becomes a great success. I want Britains to succeed as W. Britains and I are old friends. And, it is my intention that we remain old friends. I hope collectors will eagerly purchase the new products and embrace them with enthusiasm, even if I cannot.

After much thought, a bit of careful examination, and some discussion with respected toy soldier colleagues, I have reached the following conclusions:

1.) The new matte series possesses much merit. The figures are well sculpted, nicely painted, and competitively priced.

2.) The matte series is a great opportunity for a collector to develop a complete matte Durbar collection starting with the first figures issued.

3.) The matte finish appearing on the Durbar figures does not compliment the older Britains glossy figures.

4.) The matte finished figures may attract new Durbar collectors.

5.) Many collectors of glossy Durbar figures will balk at adding the matte finished figures to their existing collections.

6.) Glossy Durbar figures more effectively communicate the style, spirit, and excitement of the actual Durbar events than the matte finished figures.

7.) The matte Durbar figures do not compliment any existing lines of Durbar figures produced by other companies.

8.) Mixing and matching the matte figures with existing glossy Durbar figures cannot easily or effectively be accomplished.

9.) Collectors of glossy Durbar figures will be disappointed with the matte series.

Having shared my thoughts, opinion, and feelings concerning the Britains matte series Delhi Durbar series, I invite your response. I am very interesting in learning how others view this series.

As a closing gesture, I thought you might like to see a bit more of my glossy Durbar collection. You will find the following sets of figures in the photographs below.

Photo #1: Set #141, Band and Royal Standard of Baroda by William Hocker. The photo does not include the entire band.

Photo #2: Sets #D3, #D4, and #D5, the Vice Regal Party and Escorts by Marlborough.

Photo #3: Set #209, the Ladies Band of the Nizam of Hyderabad followed by set #215, the Indore Elephant, both sets by Beau Geste.

Photo #4: Set #249, Cavalry of Gwalior, with Parasols followed by set #245, the Jaipur Elephant, both sets by Beau Geste.

Photo #5: Set #160, the Ladhaki Devil Dancers Musical Monks, set 216, Kashmir Infantry, and set #217, Kashmir Military Band, all sets by Beau Geste.

Thank you for listening to the ramblings of an old man who is probably entirely too set in his ways. However, I hope I have provided you with a few things about which to think. When you have time, let me know your opinion of the new Durbar series.

Warmest personal regards,

Pat

 

[damian]

We had very similar discussions about the proposed AZW matt range two years ago. In response WB agreed to do both matt and gloss AZW figures. However it seems that the gloss AZW figures have not been as popular as the matt. SO perhaps we will be proved wrong here but I do tend to agree with Pat's assessment. The Durbar is an ideal range to do in gloss. All the pre-existing ranges are in gloss so this new range is not really compatible with them.
I too am in two minds about whether to pursue this new Durbar range.

 

[Go for Broke]

Pat, I appreciate your writing style, especially your closing "warmest personal regards". While not toy soldier related, you don't see your type of writing style these days. Also very nice Durbar collection.

 

[Aleš]

Even that i agree with you Pat that Dunbar is better looking in gloss style,you and everybody else who like gloss over matte must know that in 21 century gloss style will be out of business soon.
It is no future for gloss style.Gloss is the past and better you all realize the better will be for you.
Keep your gloss style collection,enjoy at them but this will become a rare style collections one day.Now the matte style is winning over glossy style.
Remmember(even it will be hard for you old collectors to understand,but the truth is that)-GLOSSY STYLE SOON WILL BE THE PAST!

 

[Aleš]

i must add that even i think that for ceremonial events there is nothing better than GLOSS style,but for combats there is nothing better than the MATT style and since the manufacturers most of them all make combats so there using MATT.
I am sure WBritain will have a few fifures in gloss style just because of a tradition but this will be more of a sake for tradition than their big hit sale.
This battle is already lost....

 

[PolarBear]

Pat

You could have John Firth convert these to glossy figures with his "Superior Gloss" finish. You can see how John has made the Tradition figures look like connoisseur figures as Konrad will readily attest. John is interested in the new Durbar series and I hope he will give one the Superior Gloss treatment for us to see.

Randy

 

[Andanna]

Extraordinary posting and pictures, Pat. Thank you very much. A wonderful start into the day.

I fully agree with your conclusions, but tend to differ with you of how you arrived there. I think you are comparing apples and oranges by comparing a gloss, high-end collectible with a limited customer base (e.g.: Beau Geste) with a matte figure that is to sell in large numbers and whose production hence is subject to many more limitations than a production by Beau Geste. For example, if the BG elephant's price climbed to $1,000, all BG collectors will probably ***** and moan - and then buy the elephant.

Having said that, the limitations of doing a Britains Durbar collection become specifically apparent when comparing them to the high end collectible. I think Alan with the sculpting did an excellent job - it is the selection of colors and the painting standard that makes the figures in my opinion look "dull". I am positive that with using stronger colors and much more shading and more use of metallics, you could turn the figures into an exceptional collector's item - even for gloss Durbar collectors. I think it was the decision to remain close to the Menpes paintings and to meet a certain price point that makes it difficult for the established Durbar collector to embrace the new line.

Having said that, I think the line could be a very valuable addition to the collecting world at a slightly higher price point.

My opinion.

 

[Aleš]

Well i am afraid this Dunbar will be a disaster for the WBritain company.
Because there is many reasons for that:
-as we can see old collectors who have their glossy Dunbar,they will not buy this mate collection
-new peopel as my self will not pay high price for some elephant if we can buy 8 or more combat soldier for that monney
-comparing this series to some other series like ZULU,WW2,Napoleon,CIW,...this is kind of boring because there is no combat so only you can see is elephants,people marching,...
-it is too high price.I know elefant look amazing,there is a lot of material,sculpting,....but it is just an elefant i am sure after ten minutes of watching him you get bored
-i am hoping i am wrong and that this series will sale ok for all of you fans of Dunbar but i am not sure if i am wrong.The time will show.
Sorry for my honesty but that is i think

 

[skeeterbuck]

Pat, what a nice series of very thoughtful postings. I couldn't agree with you more.

I really like the gloss finish also. All of this emphasis on realism I must admit I find very disheartening. Their "toy soldiers" for crying out loud, not exact scale miniatures. To my way of thinking, toy soldiers are suppose to wisk you away to your childhood where everything is simple, colorful and prerfect. You have to use your imagination to relive the glories of the past.

Their are no Durbars anymore except in the visions of your mind and what better way to stimulate that vision that bright, glossy painted toy soldiers/figures. If you want to imagine the death, destruction and misery of WWI and II then matte is the way to go, but if you want fanciful pleasantries give me a gloss finish any time.

 

[PolarBear]

As someone who has taught art history to undergraduates I would say the the main issues are aesthetics and taste which varies from individual to individual. It's like comparing a Jackson Pollock to an Andrew Wyeth. I like the statement by the late art historian Ernst Gombrich that "there is no such thing as art, only artists." We all approach the subject of military miniature collecting with our own points of view in terms of both subject and style and the things that we prefer basically are those that meet our needs: visual, psychological, historical and emotional. I personally think that it is great that William Britain is producing a matte series in a realistic style to commemorate the 1903 Durbar and especially honor the important visual document produced by the artist Mortimer Menpes in his book on the Durbar. That said I also the love the Durbar series of Beau Geste which covers the same year. They both meet my "needs" but in different ways. Beau Geste is perfect for those who only like their soldiers in gloss while Britain's Durbar will satisfy those who are attracted by the more realistic matte style.

Randy

 

[1879fanatic]

Pat, what a nice series of very thoughtful postings. I couldn't agree with you more.

I really like the gloss finish also. All of this emphasis on realism I must admit I find very disheartening. Their "toy soldiers" for crying out loud, not exact scale miniatures. To my way of thinking, toy soldiers are suppose to wisk you away to your childhood where everything is simple, colorful and prerfect. You have to use your imagination to relive the glories of the past.

Their are no Durbars anymore except in the visions of your mind and what better way to stimulate that vision that bright, glossy painted toy soldiers/figures. If you want to imagine the death, destruction and misery of WWI and II then matte is the way to go, but if you want fanciful pleasantries give me a gloss finish any time.

Gentlemen,
I could not add more complete thoughts than the above post by Chuck, for he includes everything I agree with!
And Pat , of course , is our Headmaster for the written word, and continues his special tradition with this thread!
Mike

 

[PJDeluhery]

Interesting discussion. I agree with much of what has been said below, but my perspective is a bit different.

I think Britains made the decision to go after new collectors at the expense of current ones. In their figures generally, they seem to be aiming for K&C, but hitting much, much lower. In my opinion, the company has been struggling with substandard (aesthetically) products and bad business decisions (made by people who do not understand their market) for the last decade - I don't know how many of their 9 lives they have left! This may be another bad decision or not - only the sales will tell. Apologies to those who love Britians, but as a brand they have done nothing for me for a very long time.

It's pretty clear the matte sells today, and someone who does not know the market for Durbar figures would jump to the conclusion that a Britains matte series would sell. I think the major market for THIS series is probably those who already collect the Durbar figures of other makers. Those of us who have this series have substantial sums invested and are less likely to reel at the cost. We're used to it by now. The barrier to entry for new collectors is very high - namely the price of the elephants. Also, the concept of the series is not new and has been fully exploited already. Those that want this series probably already have it, and unless Britains are going to do something to attract new collectors to the concept I think the new figures are very likely to fail to inspire new collectors. It's also a shame that they could not make the sets more affordable - which might inspire new collectors and spur existing collectors to get more.

Alan's figures are superb, and I think that I will probably buy some of these figures and simply gloss them with a clear coat if they do not blend with my Marlboroughs. I'm not interested in preserving the "value" of what I buy, I want something that brings punch to my display.

Other manufacturers have made this series a superb collectors item. It's a shame that after expending all that effort Britains chose to ignore a major portion of the market for these figures. Also, it seems that Britains may be finally "getting it," and I'd love to vote with my dollars to support that effort. Unfortunately, many current collectors likely will be put off by the matte finish, and this is not a great way to start what has to be a very extensive line for Britains.

 

[damian]

So the battle for gloss is over.
Well to quote a brave American
"Surrender SIr I have not even begun to fight"

 

[damian]

Interesting discussion. I agree with much of what has been said below, but my perspective is a bit different.

I think Britains made the decision to go after new collectors at the expense of current ones. In their figures generally, they seem to be aiming for K&C, but hitting much, much lower. In my opinion, the company has been struggling with substandard (aesthetically) products and bad business decisions (made by people who do not understand their market) for the last decade - I don't know how many of their 9 lives they have left! This may be another bad decision or not - only the sales will tell. Apologies to those who love Britians, but as a brand they have done nothing for me for a very long time.

It's pretty clear the matte sells today, and someone who does not know the market for Durbar figures would jump to the conclusion that a Britains matte series would sell. I think the major market for THIS series is probably those who already collect the Durbar figures of other makers. Those of us who have this series have substantial sums invested and are less likely to reel at the cost. We're used to it by now. The barrier to entry for new collectors is very high - namely the price of the elephants. Also, the concept of the series is not new and has been fully exploited already. Those that want this series probably already have it, and unless Britains are going to do something to attract new collectors to the concept I think the new figures are very likely to fail to inspire new collectors. It's also a shame that they could not make the sets more affordable - which might inspire new collectors and spur existing collectors to get more.

Alan's figures are superb, and I think that I will probably buy some of these figures and simply gloss them with a clear coat if they do not blend with my Marlboroughs. I'm not interested in preserving the "value" of what I buy, I want something that brings punch to my display.

Other manufacturers have made this series a superb collectors item. It's a shame that after expending all that effort Britains chose to ignore a major portion of the market for these figures. Also, it seems that Britains may be finally "getting it," and I'd love to vote with my dollars to support that effort. Unfortunately, many current collectors likely will be put off by the matte finish, and this is not a great way to start what has to be a very extensive line for Britains.

I agree with a lot of your assessment. WB really went down about 2003- 2006.
There is no doubt that under current leadership it has experienced a dramatic turn around.
There seems to be a growing realization that the WWII market is really quite crowded and ( I do like WWII just by the way) that there are other more traditional markets that need to be explored. Many of us like the colonial 19 th Century themes that WB is now returning to. I for one am glad about this. I really like the idea of the Durbar (not sure about matt though) and hope like mad to see a return to Egypt and the Sudan soon.

 

[thebritfarmer]

First off I wish to thank Pat for starting this discussion and to all those who have posted their replies. It is nice to have a discussion without the bickering for once.

I would like to add a few observations of my own to some of the comments made thus far.

I have a very tiny toy soldier budget and have no access to a TS shop to see the good first hand so these reviews are excellent for me.

As some of you know Britains is my only collectible, from 1903 up to present day I have a snippet of many different things made in lead, plastic or pewter, from farm , zoo, Zulus, railways & ceremonial. The original Durbar is something that I do not have. I had thought of collecting some of them but the prices released are beyond my grasp and some of them rarely turn up for sale leaving me with an in complete set.

The new Durbar appeals to me because I can start right at the beginning. I find the figures no more expensive than any other line. (The elephant excepted, but they aren't being released every month so I should be OK )

Some of you think you have been abandoned by Britains, I don't look at it like that remember the Durbar was dropped 2 years before First Gear took over. I believe they have interjected new life and certainly have given us great products to choose from.

Perhaps this is not the case but I am sure there are very few who could collect and entire range from all the different manufacturers that make Durbar. So I think that there will always be something available for you to collect.

Personally if you look at real life the Durbar pics are black & white or coloured drawings. I have no doubt that it was not a spectacular colourful affair, but I doubt it was as colourful as the glossies depict (meaning people don't have shiny skin and clothes etc...aren't glossy. (I can't believe I said that as I love my glossy ceremonial Britains ).

I am really looking forward to a 3/16 of a mile shelf full of these beauties and I think that is when they will truly shine and make up for the fact they are not glossy.

I don't think this has been mentioned either but I believe they are a titch larger than their glossy predecessors so even if glossed may not fit in.

At the end of the day we all have our own views and only have the needs of ourselves to satisfy. To those picking up the new Durbar I say enjoy !!! For those who are not , I hope that soemthing else comes along that will tickle your fancy !!!


Scott

 

[lancer]

i must add that even i think that for ceremonial events there is nothing better than GLOSS style,but for combats there is nothing better than the MATT style and since the manufacturers most of them all make combats so there using MATT.
I am sure WBritain will have a few fifures in gloss style just because of a tradition but this will be more of a sake for tradition than their big hit sale.
This battle is already lost....

IMHO a statement way off base. I feel that while many collectors want nothing but matte and its realistic painting styles for the big 20th Century wars, I also believe there are just as many, if not more, collectors that still want the traditional gloss for their armies from virtually all periods. Many of us grew up on glossy and still collect it to this day, even with matte making inroads. I will always buy glossy figures. And as Ales did say, there is nothing better than glossy for the ceremonial side of the hobby, and that is a big side. Glossy is not going bye-bye as long as companies like Britains, Beau Geste, Somerset, Little Legion and the like continue to turn out superior product. -- lancer

 

[tdubel]

First off I wish to thank Pat for starting this discussion and to all those who have posted their replies. It is nice to have a discussion without the bickering for once.

I would like to add a few observations of my own to some of the comments made thus far.

I have a very tiny toy soldier budget and have no access to a TS shop to see the good first hand so these reviews are excellent for me.

As some of you know Britains is my only collectible, from 1903 up to present day I have a snippet of many different things made in lead, plastic or pewter, from farm , zoo, Zulus, railways & ceremonial. The original Durbar is something that I do not have. I had thought of collecting some of them but the prices released are beyond my grasp and some of them rarely turn up for sale leaving me with an in complete set.

The new Durbar appeals to me because I can start right at the beginning. I find the figures no more expensive than any other line. (The elephant excepted, but they aren't being released every month so I should be OK )

Some of you think you have been abandoned by Britains, I don't look at it like that remember the Durbar was dropped 2 years before First Gear took over. I believe they have interjected new life and certainly have given us great products to choose from.

Perhaps this is not the case but I am sure there are very few who could collect and entire range from all the different manufacturers that make Durbar. So I think that there will always be something available for you to collect.

Personally if you look at real life the Durbar pics are black & white or coloured drawings. I have no doubt that it was not a spectacular colourful affair, but I doubt it was as colourful as the glossies depict (meaning people don't have shiny skin and clothes etc...aren't glossy. (I can't believe I said that as I love my glossy ceremonial Britains ).

I am really looking forward to a 3/16 of a mile shelf full of these beauties and I think that is when they will truly shine and make up for the fact they are not glossy.

I don't think this has been mentioned either but I believe they are a titch larger than their glossy predecessors so even if glossed may not fit in.

At the end of the day we all have our own views and only have the needs of ourselves to satisfy. To those picking up the new Durbar I say enjoy !!! For those who are not , I hope that soemthing else comes along that will tickle your fancy !!!


Scott

Scott,
You bring up a big point about starting from the beginning and collecting the whole line, I think Britains is going for that. I will most likely dive in on this range as I love all things Durbar, if truth be told, I have considered selling a ton of WW2 to focus on Beau Geste (just not there yet!!!!). I have the entire original Britains Durbar and a very large portion of Marlborough. I was very fortunate and fell into a near collection of Marlborough including buildings earlier this year. Anyhow, I consider this a separate display and will dive in accordingly.

Great discussion,

Tom