The ME 262model by K&C has serious design issues. The plane in real life is tricycle gear and rather nose heavy aircraft. Yet with the greatest amount of enthusiasm for somebody finally making the model of the aircraft, I was dismayed to find tha mine had slipped off it's retrofitted tail skid and fallen off the shelf breaking the wing. When I told K&C about the issue I received several nasty emails back saying it could not have happened yet pictures do not lie. The plane is a tail sitter and could have bee weighted properly to sit on the gear like normal. K&C including the much vaunted leader Andy Nielson told me I am wrong and there is no problem. Interesting enough but many others have commented on this, and the quality of K&C. I think that Tommy Gunn, Figarti, and others are catching up and surpassing K&C. Essentally, I haven plane and K&C will not stand behind their product. Kind of like the 88's that break apart they recently did. And then to top it off they raise their prices. Excustomer until fixed!
ME 262 issues (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Shyguy151
- Start date
maddadicus
2nd Lieutenant
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If Andy had placed it on your shelf so that the landing gear was sure to cause the falling off of your shelf, you might have a case, but to blame a mfg. for an accident of your making, will not gather you much sympathy here. If my soldiers tip over in my display case and break, how can I claim a foul against the mfg.? ( bad, poorly designed bases?:rolleyes2: ) Michael
Maddadicus - Normally, I believe in "you break it, you bought it." (Although, I have to point out that when I had an issue with another maufacturer where a rider fell off an animal of its own accord, that manufacturer replaced the rider for me for free. They didn't have to, but their good will has kept me a loyal customer. Don't want to name the manufacturer b/c although their customer service was great, I don't want anyone to think their products are defective) If this was a just a situation where a toy soldier tipped over, I'd agree with you.
But this is a case where there is a well documented flaw with the ME262. I initially had a tail sitter too. It just would not sit up straight unless I put the ladder under it and/or put a figure on the wing. Thankfully, mine wasn't set up in such a way that it would fall off my shelf. I bought it through Treefrog, and they replaced it for free, no hassle.
Assuming Shyguy151 is telling the truth, I think it's on K&C or the retailer to replace the product.
Shyguy151 - before talking to the manufacturer, did you try your retailer? I know that a number of retailers took back tailsitting 262s, as Treefrog did with mine. I also have to say I'm surprised to hear that Andy or anyone at K&C was "nasty". Out of the many, may K&C pieces I own I've only had one other problem with a K&C piece (a drooping barrel on their Firefly), and Andy sent me an entirely new turret without asking for me to send mine back. In my experience both their quality control and customer service are top notch.
I don't know that other manufacturers have "surpassed" K&C when it comes to the warbirds, although to be fair I've yet to see Figarti's new plane. I'll say that I find K&C's soldiers and vehicles to be the most sturdy.
I hope that this issue gets resolved for you. While I wish K&C had been a little bit more forthcoming about the tail sitting issue, retailers like Treefrog have certainly been standing behind it, and the 262 is really special piece.
But this is a case where there is a well documented flaw with the ME262. I initially had a tail sitter too. It just would not sit up straight unless I put the ladder under it and/or put a figure on the wing. Thankfully, mine wasn't set up in such a way that it would fall off my shelf. I bought it through Treefrog, and they replaced it for free, no hassle.
Assuming Shyguy151 is telling the truth, I think it's on K&C or the retailer to replace the product.
Shyguy151 - before talking to the manufacturer, did you try your retailer? I know that a number of retailers took back tailsitting 262s, as Treefrog did with mine. I also have to say I'm surprised to hear that Andy or anyone at K&C was "nasty". Out of the many, may K&C pieces I own I've only had one other problem with a K&C piece (a drooping barrel on their Firefly), and Andy sent me an entirely new turret without asking for me to send mine back. In my experience both their quality control and customer service are top notch.
I don't know that other manufacturers have "surpassed" K&C when it comes to the warbirds, although to be fair I've yet to see Figarti's new plane. I'll say that I find K&C's soldiers and vehicles to be the most sturdy.
I hope that this issue gets resolved for you. While I wish K&C had been a little bit more forthcoming about the tail sitting issue, retailers like Treefrog have certainly been standing behind it, and the 262 is really special piece.
Normally I would agree with you but the tail holder slid out from under the craft and the left gear mount seemed improperly manufactured. When the skid slid out the plane slid off the shelf. I have over fifty planes from K&C and this was not designed well. A couple ounces of lead in the front would have ensured that they sat properly. K&C has had many defects lately and I think for the money there are some manufacturers that are really putting their heart into the craft. I do not think there is any direction besides making money. You should look at the Tommy Gunn figures and new warbirds. They are much better. There have been several models with defects from K&C and dealers have known this on many occasions. The 88's were full of flaws. I suspect between the gear not being manufactured correctly and the tail skid sliding out the plane would have broken. The dealer I bought it from warned me there were problems from K&C regarding this model.
Follow up of ME 262 issues
The plane had design flaws, but I bought one anyway because I wanted to add this to my collection. Normally I believe in the break it you buy it thought process. But the tail skid and the gear were not manufactured properly and when I asked K&C about it their reply was:
Indeed, Andy has clarified for this issue before. Please kindly find below message.
Re the Me.262 “Tail-Sitters”… From the development stage of this model K&C understood the “tail-sitting” potential of the 262. This is always a problem with all “tri-cycle” landing gear aircraft. That is why we included the work stand with the aircraft.
When our own production samples came back all of them could stand unsupported without the “stand”. However we know polystone and we know that minor variations in the density of the material in certain areas can affect the balance.
Hence, the stand was included and we showed it in position in the photos on the box.
This aircraft is one of the best K&C has yet produced and with or without the stand is a fine model. As there were only 600 produced I truly believe that this particular aircraft will be a great asset to any collection and a valuable investment for any collector… “Tail sitter” or not.
If some collections choose not to buy it, even when shown the available stand and how well it can be displayed then I’m sorry for that. It will be their loss!
With best wishes,
Andy
Therefore, there is no problem with the model.
Best Regards,
Yan Chan
Sales & Marketing Assistant
King & Country
Suite 2301, 23rd Floor, No. 3 Lockhart Road, Wanchai, Hong Kong
Direct (852) 2520 7123 Main (852) 2861 3450 Fax (852) 2861 3806
Email: yan.chan@kingandcountry.com
Website: www.kingandcountry.com
The plane had design flaws, but I bought one anyway because I wanted to add this to my collection. Normally I believe in the break it you buy it thought process. But the tail skid and the gear were not manufactured properly and when I asked K&C about it their reply was:
Indeed, Andy has clarified for this issue before. Please kindly find below message.
Re the Me.262 “Tail-Sitters”… From the development stage of this model K&C understood the “tail-sitting” potential of the 262. This is always a problem with all “tri-cycle” landing gear aircraft. That is why we included the work stand with the aircraft.
When our own production samples came back all of them could stand unsupported without the “stand”. However we know polystone and we know that minor variations in the density of the material in certain areas can affect the balance.
Hence, the stand was included and we showed it in position in the photos on the box.
This aircraft is one of the best K&C has yet produced and with or without the stand is a fine model. As there were only 600 produced I truly believe that this particular aircraft will be a great asset to any collection and a valuable investment for any collector… “Tail sitter” or not.
If some collections choose not to buy it, even when shown the available stand and how well it can be displayed then I’m sorry for that. It will be their loss!
With best wishes,
Andy
Therefore, there is no problem with the model.
Best Regards,
Yan Chan
Sales & Marketing Assistant
King & Country
Suite 2301, 23rd Floor, No. 3 Lockhart Road, Wanchai, Hong Kong
Direct (852) 2520 7123 Main (852) 2861 3450 Fax (852) 2861 3806
Email: yan.chan@kingandcountry.com
Website: www.kingandcountry.com
Mitch
Major General
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Re: Follow up of ME 262 issues
Interesting e-mail and love the ''their loss'' bit as much was made about this aircraft at the time so, I am sure nobody wants that can of worms re-opened. But, I clearly remember Andy stating on here this aircraft was not a tail sitter period and, its surprising to hear they were concerned at the early stages.
Mitch
Interesting e-mail and love the ''their loss'' bit as much was made about this aircraft at the time so, I am sure nobody wants that can of worms re-opened. But, I clearly remember Andy stating on here this aircraft was not a tail sitter period and, its surprising to hear they were concerned at the early stages.
Mitch
The Military Workshop
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Shyguy,
As a dealer your post is interesting from the aspect of for how long after you buy a product is the manufacturer liable for any damage.
You mentioned you were warned by your dealer that this aircraft had problems. I presume this refers to the tail sitting aspect. If that is the case it suggests you knew there might be a problem when you bought it. Was it a tail sitter when you bought it and if so did you raise it with your dealer at the time of purchase ? Were you offered a replacement or did you decide to keep it knowing it was a tail sitter ?.
I have had one tail sitter returned and I replaced it no problem. It has been sitting in my shop cabinet since then and looks fairly secure resting its tail on the ladder that came with it. Even it was on the edge of a shelf it is hard to imagine how it might fall off completely on it's own. I have not heard of any landing gear problems with this model.
It appears you have had this for a while and the damage has taken place while in your possession. You say it "slid" off the and then fell on the ground off your shelf. That is a difficult situation for the dealer or manufacturer to resolve if you expect it to be replaced.
You indicate your unhappiness with the response to your complaint by Andy of K&C. I note you mentioned you have over 50 planes from K&C. For that to be the case I guess that means you either have many multiples of each of the recent polystone aircraft (which would include the 262's) or you are a very big buyer of the Wooden aircraft and would have to have about 40 of them to get to your figure of over 50 (40 such wooden aircraft would be worth well over $30,000). In my book you would be a pretty big K&C aircraft collector. I would guess K&C has a good idea of who their big wooden warbird collectors are and when you contacted K&C they would have known you were a very good customer. Andy's response certainly seems out of character when dealing with such a valued customer.
It is unfortunate your problem could not be solved to your satisfaction.
However it would be great to see photos of your extensive aircraft collection. I don't think there would be many members of this forum with as many as you.
Regards
Brett
As a dealer your post is interesting from the aspect of for how long after you buy a product is the manufacturer liable for any damage.
You mentioned you were warned by your dealer that this aircraft had problems. I presume this refers to the tail sitting aspect. If that is the case it suggests you knew there might be a problem when you bought it. Was it a tail sitter when you bought it and if so did you raise it with your dealer at the time of purchase ? Were you offered a replacement or did you decide to keep it knowing it was a tail sitter ?.
I have had one tail sitter returned and I replaced it no problem. It has been sitting in my shop cabinet since then and looks fairly secure resting its tail on the ladder that came with it. Even it was on the edge of a shelf it is hard to imagine how it might fall off completely on it's own. I have not heard of any landing gear problems with this model.
It appears you have had this for a while and the damage has taken place while in your possession. You say it "slid" off the and then fell on the ground off your shelf. That is a difficult situation for the dealer or manufacturer to resolve if you expect it to be replaced.
You indicate your unhappiness with the response to your complaint by Andy of K&C. I note you mentioned you have over 50 planes from K&C. For that to be the case I guess that means you either have many multiples of each of the recent polystone aircraft (which would include the 262's) or you are a very big buyer of the Wooden aircraft and would have to have about 40 of them to get to your figure of over 50 (40 such wooden aircraft would be worth well over $30,000). In my book you would be a pretty big K&C aircraft collector. I would guess K&C has a good idea of who their big wooden warbird collectors are and when you contacted K&C they would have known you were a very good customer. Andy's response certainly seems out of character when dealing with such a valued customer.
It is unfortunate your problem could not be solved to your satisfaction.
However it would be great to see photos of your extensive aircraft collection. I don't think there would be many members of this forum with as many as you.
Regards
Brett
The Military Workshop
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Re: Follow up of ME 262 issues
Another thread on the same matter.
What is interesting about the K&C reply posted below is that it is from Yan Chan and not from Andy.
The reply is basically a copy of something Andy of K&C seems to have written to somebody else and Yan has used it in her reply. The comment "Therefore, there is no problem with the model" are the words of Yan Chan, a Chinese lady, not Andy.
It clearly is not one of the "several nasty emails" as suggested by Shyguy in his other thread which I have copied below. In fact it only seems to be responding to the tail sitting issue and no mention is made to the matter of the plane falling off a shelf (a totally different matter to being a tail sitter).
"The ME 262model by K&C has serious design issues. The plane in real life is tricycle gear and rather nose heavy aircraft. Yet with the greatest amount of enthusiasm for somebody finally making the model of the
aircraft, I was dismayed to find tha mine had slipped off it's retrofitted tail skid and fallen off the shelf breaking the wing. When I told K&C about the issue I received several nasty emails back saying it could not
have happened yet pictures do not lie. The plane is a tail sitter and could have bee weighted properly to sit on the gear like normal. K&C including the much vaunted leader Andy Nielson told me I am wrong and
there is no problem. Interesting enough but many others have commented on this, and the quality of K&C. I think that Tommy Gunn, Figarti, and others are catching up and surpassing K&C. Essentally, I haven
plane and K&C will not stand behind their product. Kind of like the 88's that break apart they recently did. And then to top it off they raise their prices. Excustomer until fixed! "
Perhaps the posts in this thread can be combined in the original thread. It helps put it in perspective.
Regards
Brett
Another thread on the same matter.
What is interesting about the K&C reply posted below is that it is from Yan Chan and not from Andy.
The reply is basically a copy of something Andy of K&C seems to have written to somebody else and Yan has used it in her reply. The comment "Therefore, there is no problem with the model" are the words of Yan Chan, a Chinese lady, not Andy.
It clearly is not one of the "several nasty emails" as suggested by Shyguy in his other thread which I have copied below. In fact it only seems to be responding to the tail sitting issue and no mention is made to the matter of the plane falling off a shelf (a totally different matter to being a tail sitter).
"The ME 262model by K&C has serious design issues. The plane in real life is tricycle gear and rather nose heavy aircraft. Yet with the greatest amount of enthusiasm for somebody finally making the model of the
aircraft, I was dismayed to find tha mine had slipped off it's retrofitted tail skid and fallen off the shelf breaking the wing. When I told K&C about the issue I received several nasty emails back saying it could not
have happened yet pictures do not lie. The plane is a tail sitter and could have bee weighted properly to sit on the gear like normal. K&C including the much vaunted leader Andy Nielson told me I am wrong and
there is no problem. Interesting enough but many others have commented on this, and the quality of K&C. I think that Tommy Gunn, Figarti, and others are catching up and surpassing K&C. Essentally, I haven
plane and K&C will not stand behind their product. Kind of like the 88's that break apart they recently did. And then to top it off they raise their prices. Excustomer until fixed! "
Perhaps the posts in this thread can be combined in the original thread. It helps put it in perspective.
Regards
Brett
thebritfarmer
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Re: Follow up of ME 262 issues
We've been down this road before I think it best to back up and turn around.
We've been down this road before I think it best to back up and turn around.
The Military Workshop
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Re: Follow up of ME 262 issues
Actually this "road" is a bit different to the tail sitter issue. If the threads are combined it gives a much clearer picture.
Actually this "road" is a bit different to the tail sitter issue. If the threads are combined it gives a much clearer picture.
jazzeum
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Re: Follow up of ME 262 issues
Based on the reply from Andy, whether or not it was directed to Shyguy, it seems as if Andy has tried to be rather straightforward, recognizing there was a potential issue with tailsitting but that it is one of their finer planes and that buyers will miss out on a great plane.
His response doesn't seem nasty nor, as far as I can tell, does he indicate that Shyguy is wrong.
Based on the reply from Andy, whether or not it was directed to Shyguy, it seems as if Andy has tried to be rather straightforward, recognizing there was a potential issue with tailsitting but that it is one of their finer planes and that buyers will miss out on a great plane.
His response doesn't seem nasty nor, as far as I can tell, does he indicate that Shyguy is wrong.
Mitch
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Re: Follow up of ME 262 issues
What does Yan being chinese have to do with the issues surrounding the 262??? she represents K&C so, Andy and does not make up replies for sure. I have asked a number of questions and she has responded and answered with knowledge that could only have come from the top
Brett your almost as predictable as you said Neil and I were!!!!!LOL
Mitch
What does Yan being chinese have to do with the issues surrounding the 262??? she represents K&C so, Andy and does not make up replies for sure. I have asked a number of questions and she has responded and answered with knowledge that could only have come from the top
Brett your almost as predictable as you said Neil and I were!!!!!LOL
Mitch
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PanzerAce1944
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Re: Follow up of ME 262 issues
had forsight of a possible weight distribution problem between one model to the next and did include the rear support "Ladder" to remedy this possible occurance.This particular aircraft model bears a substantial amount of size and weight. Add to that the design of the landing gear "Tri-Cycle style design and there we have the possibility for some abnomolies from model to model based on the polystone composition which we as collectors greatly enjoy versus light weight hollow plastic !!!
As mentioned previously here in the thread it is unfortunate to have this model come off of a shelf and break. To me 2 very valid points about the Me 262. 1)The polystone composition can vary from plane to plane, making one weigh more towards the front of the model where as the next one will be different. Luckily mine sits properly without any needed support. I know lucky for me but what about the other guy ??? 2)The other valid point is I feel in just my own personal opinion that K&C
had forsight of a possible weight distribution problem between one model to the next and did include the rear support "Ladder" to remedy this possible occurance.This particular aircraft model bears a substantial amount of size and weight. Add to that the design of the landing gear "Tri-Cycle style design and there we have the possibility for some abnomolies from model to model based on the polystone composition which we as collectors greatly enjoy versus light weight hollow plastic !!!
Mitch
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Re: Follow up of ME 262 issues
Just one point. I would say its not polystone that interests collectors but, the quality and detail. its problems i.e. weight were clearly shown in the release of the 262. Are you saying that you find the weight important??
Mitch
Just one point. I would say its not polystone that interests collectors but, the quality and detail. its problems i.e. weight were clearly shown in the release of the 262. Are you saying that you find the weight important??
Mitch
Blowtorch
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Shyguy admits he knew something was wrong with the landing gear and yet he put it on the edge of a shelf? This is not common sense.
Given that there are no pics or videos for reference, here is what the story sounds like to me...correct me if I'm wrong: The plane seemed to have a defective landing gear on a wing. The plane is placed on the edge of a shelf, with the rear ladder supporting the tail. All of a sudden, at some time, the plane slips off the ladder of its own doing, the plane slides forward, puts too much pressure on the defective landing gear, it collapses, falls on the floor resulting in damage.
And the manufacturer/retailer is responsible for this? Do I have this correct?
uksubs
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Where my enigma machine when you needed ^&confuse:rolleyes2:
PanzerAce1944
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Based on the money K&C vehicles and aircraft cost to buy I display my items behind enclosed glass curio cabinets. If something should happen to move or shift it is only
going to move an inch or so before making contact with the frontal glass area of each cabinet. Placing items on open ledged shelves feet off of the ground would not be
an option for me. {sm2}
going to move an inch or so before making contact with the frontal glass area of each cabinet. Placing items on open ledged shelves feet off of the ground would not be
an option for me. {sm2}