Meaning of Connaisseur-Style (1 Viewer)

[jazzeum]

Agreed.

 

[zblang]

I forget who, might be you, who posted the aeroart Henry v set with FL Agincourt and they looked great together.

 

[Fitzgibbon]

Agreed.

Some great discussion here about the difference between the appreciation of art and what is mere consumerism in the mass market. A lot of logic and fact is contained in this thread, and it goes to the most sensitive of nerves; the hip pocket nerve. It is notable that the initial provocation was the confusing use of an oxymoron by market forces. The context implied that one only had to purchase the tagged product to become a connoisseur. It implied that this is the type of product made to satisfy the most informed critic of such products - that is what defines a connoisseur; someone who, over long exposure to the creative/artistic field, has built up a daunting amount of applied knowledge and can therefore judge the best. It's a term most common in art or food. But it is not the artist! One would not use this title for Leonardo da Vinci.

 

[Fitzgibbon]

Larry hit it on the nose. Some of the Seven Years War Prussians and the Landsknechts are amazing. AeroArt couldn’t make them any better. Unfortunately, if you don’t own any of these figures, you really can’t see the quality.

Quite right - one cannot compare apples and oranges, and if you cannot access both, the gulf of contrast will be impossible to imagine. In this thread, there is consensus about this point, so frequently overlooked in so many threads. The likes of the St Petersburg Collection are produced for a different market from that of the mainstream toy soldier producers. A collector of art does not buy prints and there was only ever one Mona Lisa. FL has arguably achieved a successful niche in the gap by compromising the quality/price balance. This is still a market strategy where the profit target is predicated an numerical sales as opposed to the sale of a unique artwork - but there is appeal to a level of art rather than a mere toy.

 

[Fitzgibbon]

Agreed.

A wonderfully concise summation. There may well be some elastic maths in the Recommended Retail Price, but cost price is linked inextricably to quality of the production. It would be ludicrous to insist, as has often happened, that all manufacturers produce Aeroart quality and detail at del Prado prices - this is akin to insisting that Mona Lisa prints match the quality of the original while retaining print prices. Viva la difference!

 

[Dragoon]

That coincides, too, with the term as applied to the individual figures produced by the various artists in the figure hobby, who show and compete in the various shows. Think Dennis Levy, Anders Heintz, Alan and Marian, Kostas Karietelas, Mike Blank, Stephen Mallia, among others whose names are now escaping me.

Prost!
Brad

For me, Bill Horan tops the list for making one of a kind connoisseur military miniatures.

 

[Fitzgibbon]

For me, Bill Horan tops the list for making one of a kind connoisseur military miniatures.

Now that is art! Simply superb.

 

[joesgis]

Larry hit it on the nose. Some of the Seven Years War Prussians and the Landsknechts are amazing. AeroArt couldn’t make them any better. Unfortunately, if you don’t own any of these figures, you really can’t see the quality.

As for sculpts of these lines you mention Brad I would agree, but the paint, as nice as it is, isn't quite at Aeroart level. it's generally a grade below, but the gap is closing.

Joe

 

[joesgis]

I do not think mass market figures and connoisseur figures can be equivalent. Connoisseur denotes distinct and above others in quality, one of a kind etc. The Russian makers offer different grades of painting and use the same casting, thus the figures no matter how detailed the paint are not unique art objects.

A casting, while the generation of which is an art form itself, is but a three dimensional canvas for the context of this discussion. Just because a particular sculpt may have been painted multiple times (differently by different artists) certainly doesn't disqualify it from being a unique piece of art, quite the contrary actually. Also note that I used the word artist not painter.

Joe

 

[bradleyl30]

As for sculpts of these lines you mention Brad I would agree, but the paint, as nice as it is, isn't quite at Aeroart level. it's generally a grade below, but the gap is closing.

Joe

I really do not agree across most lines I collect. Aeroart definitely adds more complexity and finery to their figures, but often that makes them look unrealistic unless you say they are on parade or in a tournament.

I do have a few Crusaders that I think are tremendous and exceed FL's Crusaders, but my FL Romans look a lot more realistic than my Aeroart Romans. Also, I prefer many of the FL Vikings over the Aeroart Vikings.

When it comes to Agincourt, they are neck and neck, especially if exclude Aeroart figures that should only be in a parade/ceremony or on a tournament field.

 

[Fitzgibbon]

I really do not agree across most lines I collect. Aeroart definitely adds more complexity and finery to their figures, but often that makes them look unrealistic unless you say they are on parade or in a tournament.

I do have a few Crusaders that I think are tremendous and exceed FL's Crusaders, but my FL Romans look a lot more realistic than my Aeroart Romans. Also, I prefer many of the FL Vikings over the Aeroart Vikings.

When it comes to Agincourt, they are neck and neck, especially if exclude Aeroart figures that should only be in a parade/ceremony or on a tournament field.

So, to be clear, you actually do agree about the quality of paint but think that Aeroart doesn't always get the casting right?

 

[bradleyl30]

So, to be clear, you actually do agree about the quality of paint but think that Aeroart doesn't always get the casting right?

Nope. I don’t equate overly decorated as the only measure of quality. That might be appropriate for some figures, but not all.

I prefer the weathering and realism of FL over AeroArt in most cases.

 

[Fitzgibbon]

Nope. I don’t equate overly decorated as the only measure of quality. That might be appropriate for some figures, but not all.

I prefer the weathering and realism of FL over AeroArt in most cases.

Ok. Thanks for the clarity. Art is always in the eye of the beholder

 

[Napoleon1er]

There are generally two aspects to figure quality: sculpting and painting. I think some mass-market figures from Britains, K&C, and Thomas Gunn are sculpted to the same standard as connoisseur figures, but what makes the connoisseur style is the painting. Many of First Legion's figures meet medium-grade connoisseur standards (and some go higher than that), but most other factory-painted figures do not.

 

[joesgis]

I really do not agree across most lines I collect. Aeroart definitely adds more complexity and finery to their figures, but often that makes them look unrealistic unless you say they are on parade or in a tournament.

I do have a few Crusaders that I think are tremendous and exceed FL's Crusaders, but my FL Romans look a lot more realistic than my Aeroart Romans. Also, I prefer many of the FL Vikings over the Aeroart Vikings.

When it comes to Agincourt, they are neck and neck, especially if exclude Aeroart figures that should only be in a parade/ceremony or on a tournament field.

I hear what you're saying, and as I stated before the gap is closing. I'm really impressed with many of FL's sculpts, and find them to actually be at least as complex as the majority of Aeroart figures from the current era, and in many cases exceeding Aeroart in sculpting refinement. I think in a significant amount of cases FL's sculpts are superior. I still typically see a full step difference in paint quality, but I do not mean that in a negative way toward either/or. I thoroughly enjoy them both, and my hopes are that they both propel each other to improve. My apologies to the original poster if I have taken the discussion off course a bit.

 

[Mirof]

Connoisseur !

As already many wrote : no meaning
see https://www.ebay.fr/itm/Russian-Hus...636617?hash=item239077f789:g:7igAAOSwcXVZ5nTZ



The term is more an "advert" trick to sell anything

or like
https://www.ebay.fr/itm/ST-PETERSBU...249564?hash=item1ebca9965c:g:2iwAAMXQ855RolYt

and this one contain all the attractive terms ( that many believes in, as : St petersburg / Connoisseur / Niena / prof. painted / to pro standard / Russia
( ST PETERSBURG NIENA STUDIO RUSSIAN CONNOISSEUR MODEL PAINTED TO PRO STANDARD )

 

[bromhead]

Connoisseur !

As already many wrote : no meaning
see https://www.ebay.fr/itm/Russian-Hus...636617?hash=item239077f789:g:7igAAOSwcXVZ5nTZ

View attachment 222323

The term is more an "advert" trick to sell anything

or like
https://www.ebay.fr/itm/ST-PETERSBU...249564?hash=item1ebca9965c:g:2iwAAMXQ855RolYt

and this one contain all the attractive terms ( that many believes in, as : St petersburg / Connoisseur / Niena / prof. painted / to pro standard / Russia
( ST PETERSBURG NIENA STUDIO RUSSIAN CONNOISSEUR MODEL PAINTED TO PRO STANDARD )

Patina

 

[theBaron]

Re: Meaning of Connoisseur-Style

Connoisseur !

As already many wrote : no meaning

I disagree categorically. As we have already demonstrated, and as shown by this very discussion, the term has a very clear and generally recognized definition in our hobby. That some merchants misuse or appropriate that term for their own purposes does not invalidate that definition. Your argument is akin to saying that the term, "mint condition" has no meaning, because someone applies it somewhat loosely, incorrectly, or in bad faith, to attract a buyer for his wares.

Bromhead supplies an example of another term that has a clear meaning, but is also misused. Sorry, but you are incorrect that "connoisseur" has no meaning.

Prost!
Brad

 

[nysoldiers]

I have 4 categories in my collection:
Antique soldiers.......pre-60's.
Toy Soldiers.....mostly glossy (Trophy, Little Legion, ATS, Tradition, Britains, Mulberry, Tommy Atkins, etc...
Military Miniatures.....matt finish (K&C, JJD, TCS, WB, TG, Figarti, etc..
Connaisseur or works of Art......Aeroart and custom figures.

First Legion for me is between Military Miniatures and connaisseur but some of the other Military miniature makers are getting there as well.

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" so we can all label as we choose.

 

[theBaron]

Regarding First Legion, I describe them as bringing the connoisseur style to a broader market. Individually, any given piece might not be as good as a corresponding St Petersburg piece, for example. But generally, they achieve the style, and at prices that are generally a little more accessible to more collectors. Something FL does that the Russian studios don't, generally, is to offer a catalog of pieces intended to be displayed together, as the collector's toy soldier makers do. That's something else that makes them a bridge between to the two areas of the hobby.

Prost!
Brad