Mistakes In Movies Not Noticed (1 Viewer)

Cardigan600

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Yo Troopers, you know the way the usually show mistakes in movies ie; phone lines planes going over in the history type movie. Well one that has never to my knowledge been mentioned in EL CID, its after they lay siege to the Moor castle at Valencia, as the army is going through the gates of the city if you look to your right at the castle wall higher up a guy pops his head through to see whats going on He has the old type flat cap on they used to wear in the 1950s you have to run it a few times to see it.
Bernard.:D
 
How about in Zulu when the first attack fails and the 24th starts cheering, there is a car speeding down the road on the horizon with windshield glaring. Maybe it was Lord Chelmsford's POV.
 
Are we talking accidental mistakes or the deliberate 'mistakes' movie producers include to enhance the appeal of their movies to their viewing audience. An example for the later being all the anti British stuff in 'A Bridge to Far'.

If it's accidental mistakes. I was told by someone that should know, that in the first Lord of the Rings movie there was a car going past in the background raising dust and they covered that up with digital smoke from a hobbit home chimney.
 
Mr

OzDigger, General Sir, I've no idea about your first question. I should be working here at my desk, but since I own the company, might as well put in my two cents, in lieu of actual produstive work:D Mike
 
I just watched Gladiator (again) anyway the scene with the chariots going around there is one chariot that flips on its side and you can se a large gas bottle :eek:
 
Are we talking accidental mistakes or the deliberate 'mistakes' movie producers include to enhance the appeal of their movies to their viewing audience. An example for the later being all the anti British stuff in 'A Bridge to Far'.
....
What anti British stuff? There was plenty of criticism of British command and planning mistakes but afterall Monty pushed this plan over the well justified objections of many, including many on his own staff and in the end Ike is said to have just relented to keep the peace.

Most of the planning was done by British generals and is generally conceded to have been a royal co**up. There were numerous seeming planning blunders including:
the necessity of all the major bridges being taken intact i;
given that, the failure to place more emphasis of drops to secure all of these, as was done for Veghel and Grave;
the absence of workable contigencies for destroyed bridges;
the poor terrain for the mission of XXX Corps;
the refusal to consider intelligence showing greater than expect German armor support, which Monty himself was said to have dismissed, without foundation, as simply broken down tanks;
the decision to have IX Troop Carrier Command's transport aircraft both to tow gliders and drop paratroopers at the same time, a nearly impossible task;
the reliance on an optomistic weather forecast to limit drops to one per day;
the lack of arrangements for close air support;
the decision to make the drops from south to north, which gave the Germans the most early warning for their defensive;
the really poor drop zone location choices and reliance on the machine gun jeeps; and
the lack of effective communications equipment and contingencies.

According to his diary, General Gavin, of U.S. 82nd Airborne Division, was among those very skeptical of the plan and highly critical of British General Browning, noting that he "...unquestionably lacks the standing, influence and judgment that comes from a proper troop experience... his staff was superficial..."
And then there has been much criticism of the apparent lack and drive and aggressiveness of XXX Corps.

Of course, one could only give the most extravagent praise to the British soldiers, especially the airborne groups, involved. Eisenhower in fact noted " 'There has been no single performance by any unit that has more greatly inspired me or more excited my admiration than the nine day action by the lst British Parachute Division between September 17 and 25"

Like any movie about a true event, it undoubtedly overstated or understated certain things for dramatic license but overall, I thought the impressions created were consistent with the historical perspective.
 
Very good point, I think that is a thread that runs through Ryan's book, too. Monty was so obsessed with his northern route into Germany and one knockout blow, that it colored his thinking. But I'm not sure that there is an anti-British tone to the movie. It's more a record of a series of questionable decisions that kept piling up and lead to a disaster.

Prost!
Bradley
 
Don't forget that Eisenhower delayed the operation, reduced the number of units and actually approved the whole plan. If he didn't think it would have worked he shouldn't have approved it, or was he less concerned because it was British troops at the sharp end :rolleyes:

And of course it was an American officer that in effect handed the complete details of the operation to the Germans when he took all the relevant maps etc of Market-Garden into the combat zone and these were captured.

I'm saying that there were mistakes made by the British, and the Americans. But the delay and the plans in German hands played a significant part in the failure of the operation making it a shared stuff-up rather than entirely a 'British' failure.

But the above was not the 'anti British' stuff I was actually referring to. It's more the way that Hollywood tends to portray the British in movies, and in particular in 'A Bridge to Far'. For example when those 'British' Sherman tanks stopped at that bridge it looked like they were setting up for tea and scones in a meadow. When in reality they were actually under heavy fire from well supported German troops.

I guess most American viewers tend to overlook things like that as they have become accustomed to the way Hollywood portrays such things. It was a similar situation in 'Saving Private Ryan'. No mention was made of the British contributions and even the 'Bangalore Torpedo' got some heavy criticism despite it being of great assistance in helping the US troops that used it. And of course there was no mention in SPR of the Shermans being launched to far out and sinking leaving the troops on Omaha without effective armour support.

As for Ike's 'wide front' demand, don't forget that this was the main cause of "The Battle of the Bulge' and Monty proved handy in that battle if I recall.
 
Don't forget that Eisenhower delayed the operation, reduced the number of units and actually approved the whole plan. If he didn't think it would have worked he shouldn't have approved it, or was he less concerned because it was British troops at the sharp end :

**Monty hands Ike a plan and say "I've got it all covered, it will be magnificent!". Is it Ike's job to review all the details? Or, can he truct that an experienced field commander SHOULD have known what he was doing?

But the above was not the 'anti British' stuff I was actually referring to. It's more the way that Hollywood tends to portray the British in movies, and in particular in 'A Bridge to Far'. For example when those 'British' Sherman tanks stopped at that bridge it looked like they were setting up for tea and scones in a meadow.

*** OK, but the American officers' written view was that the tanks dawdled while BRITISH paras were getting shot up. I know it was a combination of stiffening resistance, the lack of infantry who were still clearing Nijmegen and the horrible terrain. "Bridge..." simply showed one point of view.

I guess most American viewers tend to overlook things like that as they have become accustomed to the way Hollywood portrays such things. It was a similar situation in 'Saving Private Ryan'. No mention was made of the British contributions and even the 'Bangalore Torpedo' got some heavy criticism despite it being of great assistance in helping the US troops that used it.

*** I really doubt that any soldier under fire cares to explain the development history of his weapon!

And of course there was no mention in SPR of the Shermans being launched to far out and sinking leaving the troops on Omaha without effective armour support.

***Actually yes there is. Tom Hanks is told by an engineer that the obstacles need to be blown to clear a path for the tanks and he responds that "all the armor is at the bottom of the Channel!".

As for Ike's 'wide front' demand, don't forget that this was the main cause of "The Battle of the Bulge' and Monty proved handy in that battle if I recall

*** In further reading it WAS MONTY WHO LEAD TO THE GAP in the Ardennes! The broad front was supposed to run further south. The failed Opn Market-Garden left the British forces further north than planned. The need to cover the gap between US Third Army and 21 Army Group left the US First Army thin, especially when they were concentrating available force for an offensive on the northern shoulder. That left US VIII Corps struck out thinly across a "quiet" zone.

Gary B
 
*** In further reading it WAS MONTY WHO LEAD TO THE GAP in the Ardennes! The broad front was supposed to run further south. The failed Opn Market-Garden left the British forces further north than planned. The need to cover the gap between US Third Army and 21 Army Group left the US First Army thin, especially when they were concentrating available force for an offensive on the northern shoulder. That left US VIII Corps struck out thinly across a "quiet" zone.

Gary B

So now 'The Battle of the Bulge' was the Brit's fault - you guys :rolleyes: :D
 
Don't forget that Eisenhower delayed the operation, reduced the number of units and actually approved the whole plan. If he didn't think it would have worked he shouldn't have approved it, or was he less concerned because it was British troops at the sharp end :

**Monty hands Ike a plan and say "I've got it all covered, it will be magnificent!". Is it Ike's job to review all the details? Or, can he truct that an experienced field commander SHOULD have known what he was doing?

Gary B

Gary, you still seem to be shifting the entire blame to Montgomery and away from Eisenhower based on who's idea it was in the first place. Ike was quick to accept the Laurels for the successful D-Day plan, which was mostly Montgomery's, yet he says "it wasn't me" when the poo hit the fan with Market-Garden.

And I'll say again, that Eisenhower delayed Market-Garden AND reduced the forces Montgomery wanted to ensure it's success. It sure sounds like a combined stuff-up to me.
 
I guess most American viewers tend to overlook things like that as they have become accustomed to the way Hollywood portrays such things. It was a similar situation in 'Saving Private Ryan'. No mention was made of the British contributions and even the 'Bangalore Torpedo' got some heavy criticism despite it being of great assistance in helping the US troops that used it.

*** I really doubt that any soldier under fire cares to explain the development history of his weapon!

Gary B

It's been a while since I've seen SPR but I seem to recall the Rangers made a few critical comments about the origin of the Bangalore.
 
And of course there was no mention in SPR of the Shermans being launched to far out and sinking leaving the troops on Omaha without effective armour support.

***Actually yes there is. Tom Hanks is told by an engineer that the obstacles need to be blown to clear a path for the tanks and he responds that "all the armor is at the bottom of the Channel!".


Gary B

Fair enough, but I believe two or three Shermans made it to shore.
 
Mistakes in movies fall into several categories, misrepresenting history, sloppy research and simple booboos. The first is irritating but can be excused if it results in a good action flick, the second is inexcusable and just grates, and the third can be hilarious. For example, Errol Flynn's Charge of the Light Brigade is a classic example of the first. I shan't list all the mistakes, it would take too long, but it is still enjoyable. Tony Richardson's version of the same subject makes me spit blood every time I see the entire brigade in cherry coloured overalls, the more so since I know he was provided with accurate uniform information from the Historical Research Unit but over rode them because he liked the colour of the 11th Hussars and decided everyone should wear their distinctive overalls. An example of the third is a sword and sandals epic (Ican't remember which one) where a roman legionary is wearing a wrist watch!
Some mistakes are understandable,( US tanks masquerading as German, wrong Marks of Spitfires, wrong warships,) as originals are not available, but how many films of the American Civil War show Colt's Single Action Army pistols being used, usually with 4 1/2 inch barrels, instead of cap and ball weapons? Or Winchesters in place of Henrys? And the one thing that will set every British ex serviceman screaming and throwing things at the TV, British troops saluting bareheaded. (Only one regiment does this, the Blues and Royals)
However, one nation should be applauded for their attention to military detail, the Australians. Breaker Morant, The Lighthorsemen and the miniseries Anzacs are all shining examples of what can be done in terms of accuracy of uniforms and equipment. Good on yer, mates.
 
The biggest mistake made by both Monty and Ike was that they didn't use Australian troops enough in these military operations.

One Aussie soldier is worth 10 Germans. ;)
 
Now getting back to the topic at hand.

I nominate THE BOUNTY (1984) with Anthony Hopkins and Mel Gibson.

The film is set in 1787 yet one of the crew members had a typical 1980's haircut... styled and spikey with blonde streaks. :eek:

It's kind of like movies made in the 1970's about WWII where the actors have big muttonchop sideburns and long shoulder length hair. :rolleyes:
 
It's kind of like movies made in the 1970's about WWII where the actors have big muttonchop sideburns and long shoulder length hair. :rolleyes:

Oh, but shouldn't EVERYONE have big muttonchop sideburns and long shoulder length hair;)
 
Gary, you still seem to be shifting the entire blame to Montgomery and away from Eisenhower based on who's idea it was in the first place. Ike was quick to accept the Laurels for the successful D-Day plan, which was mostly Montgomery's, yet he says "it wasn't me" when the poo hit the fan with Market-Garden. And I'll say again, that Eisenhower delayed Market-Garden AND reduced the forces Montgomery wanted to ensure it's success. It sure sounds like a combined stuff-up to me.

You are right that it really was a combined mess from the top down. The biggest problem is that the Allies went too far too fast across France. Their logistics were a mess and they started to believe their own PR about the Germans being beaten. I'm certainly no fan of the Germans (even though I am Anglo-Germanic by ancestry) but no other army could have accomplished the "miracle in the west" where they fled in disarray after massive losses in men and equipment, they stopped the rout, regrouped, stopped a major offensive and then gathered forces for a major counter-offensive. The Americans and British just couldn't believe that the Germans could pull that off and it affected many of their plans in the fall of 1944.

As to Ike reducing forces, what did he reduce? In my readings the problems were that the airborne didn't have sufficient planes to get all the units in the desired time. As far as ground forces I don't know what Monty would have done with more. He put the whole might of 21 Army Group on a one-road front, not the best use of overwhelming force. He received priority in the available supplies. What was he short of?

Gary
 

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