Mistakes In Movies Not Noticed (1 Viewer)

....As far as ground forces I don't know what Monty would have done with more. He put the whole might of 21 Army Group on a one-road front, not the best use of overwhelming force. He received priority in the available supplies. What was he short of?

Gary
With all due respect for a great Commander, in this case, he was short of qualified planning staff and skepticism. I don't think anyone here is saying that Monty or even the British were the sole problem, just that the protrayals in the ABTF were based on facts and it is fact that the planning was British and quite poor, that Ike's staffs suggestions for improvement were summarily rejected by the British Commander in charge and that XXX Corps had many crucial hours of unexplained delay. Given that the movie shows in excruciating detail the bravery and suffering of the British paratroopers, I simply can't see how it can be taken as anti British.
 
We can argue about the planning and excecution of the plan for as long as we want,but as Spitfrnd says what is clear in the film is the incredible bravery and fortitude of the British Para's at Arnhem fighting a desperate battle against overwhelming odds,we can be so very proud of them.

Rob
 
With all due respect for a great Commander, in this case, he was short of qualified planning staff and skepticism. I don't think anyone here is saying that Monty or even the British were the sole problem, just that the protrayals in the ABTF were based on facts and it is fact that the planning was British and quite poor, that Ike's staffs suggestions for improvement were summarily rejected by the British Commander in charge and that XXX Corps had many crucial hours of unexplained delay. Given that the movie shows in excruciating detail the bravery and suffering of the British paratroopers, I simply can't see how it can be taken as anti British.

Given that the movie shows in excruciating detail the bravery and suffering of the British paratroopers, I simply can't see how it can be taken as anti British

Neither can I, and anyone who claims ABTF is anti-British (? :confused: ?) needs their self-evident paranoia seen to. Big-time IMO.
The Redford scene with the guy who I think is supposed to be Lord Carrington is a wee bit over the top but can be put down to artistic license.
Overall, the movie gets 99% from me.

Cheers
H
 
Don't forget that Eisenhower delayed the operation, reduced the number of units and actually approved the whole plan. If he didn't think it would have worked he shouldn't have approved it, or was he less concerned because it was British troops at the sharp end :rolleyes:

And of course it was an American officer that in effect handed the complete details of the operation to the Germans when he took all the relevant maps etc of Market-Garden into the combat zone and these were captured.

I'm saying that there were mistakes made by the British, and the Americans. But the delay and the plans in German hands played a significant part in the failure of the operation making it a shared stuff-up rather than entirely a 'British' failure.

But the above was not the 'anti British' stuff I was actually referring to. It's more the way that Hollywood tends to portray the British in movies, and in particular in 'A Bridge to Far'. For example when those 'British' Sherman tanks stopped at that bridge it looked like they were setting up for tea and scones in a meadow. When in reality they were actually under heavy fire from well supported German troops.

I guess most American viewers tend to overlook things like that as they have become accustomed to the way Hollywood portrays such things. It was a similar situation in 'Saving Private Ryan'. No mention was made of the British contributions and even the 'Bangalore Torpedo' got some heavy criticism despite it being of great assistance in helping the US troops that used it. And of course there was no mention in SPR of the Shermans being launched to far out and sinking leaving the troops on Omaha without effective armour support.

As for Ike's 'wide front' demand, don't forget that this was the main cause of "The Battle of the Bulge' and Monty proved handy in that battle if I recall.

I don't know about ABTF but I do agree with Oz here about the way Hollywood portray Brits in War and other films.The national stereotyping of our nation in some of these films borders on racism.As well as complete b******s like 'National treasure' (sorry you Sharpe fans but how Sean Bean lowered himself to be in such a pile of **** i'll never know)theres normally digs at us/Monty in many films.The dig at Monty in SPR was totally pointless in my opinion,these slights are a snide nasty and bitter side of the industry who don't care that hundreds of thousands of our people died fighting for freedom,freedom for those people to make the films they want to in fact.

Theres also the banal image put out over and over that we all wear bowler hats,go to work on red busses and speak in an absurd upper class accent.Its people high up in Hollywood with this sort of ignorance that allow people like Gibson to go out and make the type of films he makes.I saw an episode of 'Lost' in which one of the main characters goes to London,he is stood there and they actually manage to squeeze into the background a Red Bus,Red telephone box and a Policeman walking up and down in front of them!.This is all wrong for many reasons 1)You can't catch a bus for love nor money! 2)all the phone boxes have been sold off and now sit at the bottom of peoples gardens! and 3)The Police are too busy trying to stem the epidemic of knife crime to be walking up and down!!!;):D

Rob
 
Rob,

I don't entirely disagree with your latest post on this thread - but there is NO anti-British bias in ABTF.

Regards
H
 
Understood H,i don't know why but that dig at Monty in SPR really annoyed me!.Must be getting old and short tempered.

Rob
 
Understood H,i don't know why but that dig at Monty in SPR really annoyed me!.Must be getting old and short tempered.

Rob

No sweat, but seeing as SPR really wasn't a very good movie, apart from the excellent battle scenes, I've never seen much point in highlighting the hollywood nonsense. To be fair, SPR was an American movie about American GI's in (and out of) combat, so similarly, I've never seen why the "British/Canadian/French/Jimmy and His Donkey" contribution to D-Day needed to be mentioned in this particular depiction of the ETO either.
The Bulge was around a 95% American affair. So I can also appreciate that the American GI from Ike down would not have been amused at Monty's disasterous PR exercise after that particular battle was won as well.
Just my opinion of course.

Cheers
H
 
"these slights are a snide nasty and bitter side of the industry who don't care that hundreds of thousands of our people died fighting for freedom,freedom for those people to make the films they want to in fact."

I just wanted to add that highlight. Mutual effort all the way around and the quintessential example of how two nations can make a difference at the end of the day. My personal thanks to all that made it happen. Mike
 
I don't know about ABTF but I do agree with Oz here about the way Hollywood portray Brits in War and other films.The national stereotyping of our nation in some of these films borders on racism.As well as complete b******s like 'National treasure' (sorry you Sharpe fans but how Sean Bean lowered himself to be in such a pile of **** i'll never know)theres normally digs at us/Monty in many films.The dig at Monty in SPR was totally pointless in my opinion,these slights are a snide nasty and bitter side of the industry who don't care that hundreds of thousands of our people died fighting for freedom,freedom for those people to make the films they want to in fact.
....
Rob
I can certainly appreciate your point of view Rob but must we really let things of this nature bother us? There is no bigger Anglophile on these forums (my nom de plume is not mustangfrnd for example) and as I have said before I very much do care and appreciate the sacrifice and importance of Britain in WWII but I would respectfully observe that these examples do not appear to me to represent any anti British stereotyping. National Treasure is just a fun action romp not meant to be taken seriously on any level but action fantasy. Bean's character was British and some what of a bad guy but a lovable one at that. I frankly liked his character and think he nearly upstaged Cage in the movie. He could have just as easily been black or German but that would not to me represent any racial or xenophobic stereotyping. For example, would we say American Gangster was anti-black because it portrayed a very brutal black drug lord? Certainly there are films that do cross that line and I can appreciate why the some folks being portrayed can be offended but after all we live in a world where people of all colors, creeds and national origins do good a bad things, as individuals, groups and at times, countries, so its only understandable that film representations will use and abuse such realities; frequently to the point of absurdity. This is a form of theatrical license that dates back to Sophocles and earlier.

To me, the more unreasonable the representation, the less offensive it is since it has crossed the line between pseudo documentary and pure fiction. I don't get offended about any of those things, but perhaps that is product of my British, Scottish, Irish, French and German (many centuries of wars there) mix perhaps. As Bill Murray so eloquently said in that great speech in Stripes, "Everybody loves a mutt.":D:D;) Just my two cents (or maybe two bits) mate but I wouldn't let stuff like that bother you; there's more than enough to fill that boat for all of us.;)
 
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That is my point.It was America and Britain together with many other nations that won the war.I used the word 'our' because it is 'our' people the British who are constantly insulted by the film industry for no real reason,i venture to guess that the British film industry do not make such cheap jibes.I can imagine the outcry if they made a constant stream of anti American insults and stereotypes.

Rob
 
Sorry Spitfrnd i missed your post.Yeah i guess you are right mate,i shouldn't get so wound up about it,just sometimes makes my blood boil,i'll have a whisky and chill!;)

Rob
 
To me, the more unreasonable the representation, the less offensive it is since it has crossed the line between pseudo documentary and pure fiction.

I rewatched "The Eagle Has Landed" a few days ago. If the Larry Hagman character wasn't a stereotype, then I don't know what is. Having said that, so was the character played by Michael Caine....the "Good" German.
Still an enjoyable romp though even if it was made 30 years ago.

BTW, I couldn't agree more with Mike's post.

Cheers
H
 
Trouble is people believe the rubbish they see on screen and it colours their view.I've actually had Australians come up to me at the museum and say 'Yeah,i've always hated you Brits since i saw Gallipoli'.(apart from wanting to say well F*** off out of my country then) People actually believe drivel thats put in front of them.If i've got this right the famous charge at the end of Gallipoli ordered by a British officer was in reality ordered by an Australian officer,but guess what,for their own reason the film makers changed it to a Brit officer,now i wonder why?

Rob
 
Trouble is people believe the rubbish they see on screen and it colours their view.I've actually had Australians come up to me at the museum and say 'Yeah,i've always hated you Brits since i saw Gallipoli'.(apart from wanting to say well F*** off out of my country then) People actually believe drivel thats put in front of them.If i've got this right the famous charge at the end of Gallipoli ordered by a British officer was in reality ordered by an Australian officer,but guess what,for their own reason the film makers changed it to a Brit officer,now i wonder why?

Rob
Well this example was part of my point, it is the more subtle cuts that hurt the most; but bugger those who confuse films with history. What can I say, we colonials are not known for the breadth of our historical acumen; just look how often we repeat the mistakes of others, as well as our own.:D;)

I just couldn't see how Bean's role in NT could be offensive (yes I am a Sharpe lover). I do wish the folks doing the dvd transfers for the BBC would get it right though. So many of the Sharpe episodes and another of my favorites, "A Piece of Cake" are really not up to dvd video or audio quality.
 
Boy sometimes a fellow reads this stuff and goes "What the heck?" The "Allies" Won the War together. I like to think that U.S. means all of "US"!
Uh nuts! Lost my track..... Oh yeah! We the Allies have different styles. Where one falls off the other picks up and vice versa.:D
 
Well this example was part of my point, is the more subtle cuts that hurt the most; but bugger those who confuse films with history. What can I say, we colonials are not known for the breadth of our historical acumen; just look how often we repeat the mistakes of others, as well as our own.:D;)

I just couldn't see how Bean's role in NT could be offensive (yes I am a Sharpe lover). I do wish the folks doing the dvd transfers for the BBC would get it right though. So many of the Sharpe episodes and another of my favorites, "A Piece of Cake" are really not up to dvd video or audio quality.

Yeah what he said" Bugger the film industry" Bunch of rich guys getting richer!
 
Spitfrnd and KV your both right ,i shouldn't get so wound up,they are only films of course.And i meant no offence re the Aussies,the vast majority are funny and generous people,as with all countries theres always the odd one. KV,i like your definition of US!:)

Rob
 
Spitfrnd and KV your both right ,i shouldn't get so wound up,they are only films of course.And i meant no offence re the Aussies,the vast majority are funny and generous people,as with all countries theres always the odd one. KV,i like your definition of US!:)

Rob

Hey Rob take a chill pill Saturday is coming and Hell! just buy British troops and AV's and you'll feel a whole lot better

The Brits have always been villians in Yankee films be they war-films or Disney cartoons- tends to suit our foppish accents better;)
Not to be taken too seriously though mate.

Reb
 

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