New packaging again..... (4 Viewers)

[Njja]

Ray I have not seen any current production numbers. All I know there are

quite a few sets on the market still that I purchased years and years ago.

For years I purchased all my King & Country from Gideon at Classic Toys

each time I went up to New York to visit my daughter. I usually spent about

$2K a year from 1999 until he closed his shop a little while ago. Every now

and then when I move some things around I find pieces I bought years ago

that are still in production???

Thats just hard to understand!

Njja

 

[Pierre]

Ray,

Now, a "Strictly Limited" thing is one item with a normal production number, the only difference is that we know it in advance and that it costs us a minimum of $50,00 to know it.

Pierre.

 

[nmrocks]

Ray I have not seen any current production numbers. All I know there are

quite a few sets on the market still that I purchased years and years ago.

For years I purchased all my King & Country from Gideon at Classic Toys

each time I went up to New York to visit my daughter. I usually spent about

$2K a year from 1999 until he closed his shop a little while ago. Every now

and then when I move some things around I find pieces I bought years ago

that are still in production???

Thats just hard to understand!

Njja

O.K. I agree that thats a problem if true, once again my concern is, are we sure they are still in production or has Andy committed to a production run of say 2000 to 2500 units and still has units in the back room vs. running out and producing more?
Ray

 

[indiana81]

I agree, i would love to see K&C go back to the old days where a set was around for a year at most then be retired. It seems these days the releases go on for ever. I noticed they are still selling the Jagdpanther but I bought mine over 2 years ago, surely nobody still wants to buy one now?
As for the packaging issue, K&C do what they have to do to get the product to the customer in good condition and you can guarantee they thought long and hard before going down this route so they won't be changing their minds anytime soon. Therefore there is no point in moaning and surely we can come up with a better subject than this to talk about?
Can't believe I contributed to this thread either so please lets kill it now!!!

I'd still like to buy a Jagdpanther. Not to go against the grain, but as a new (8 months) collector, the lack of retirement has been a benefit. It has allowed me to build a good collection without going into debt. I am able to take my time and have fun with the hobby. If I had to plan ahead all the time and wonder if I'd be able to pick up what I wanted before it was retired, that would suck the fun right out of it.
If items were retired faster, I'd be spending less in the long run. As it stands now, I am prioritizing. Afrika Korps, Eighth Army and Iwo Jima, with a bit of HB and NMA. (Okay, I picked up the Stuart and latest German artillery piece too. ) I'd like to pick up some Waffen-SS and Russian sets, as well as some non-airborne D-Day sets when I get caught up. If things were retired within a year, I'd just stick with the priority ranges and scratch the rest.
The slower the retirement, the more there is to buy. And more buying I will do.
And if the bottom dropped out of the secondary market, I'd still have the pleasure of my collection. If the GREIF went for $1000 on ebay, I wouldn't sell. If it went for $10, it wouldn't bother me. I bought it because I wanted it. But I'm a WW2 nut, so even if someday the figures go the way of comic books (been down that road), NASCAR sets or train sets, they will still have value to me.
Justin

 

[Njja]

Again as you say you have been collecting for 8 months...I understand your

feelings as mine where much the same in the begining. After you have spent

5 or 6 years and 25 to 35 thousand you may appreciate your collection having

some value. As your tastes change its nice to be able so sell a few older sets

and buy something you missed or spend a thousand or two that you just took

in. If as you say you experienced other collections become valueless....I'm

certain you are not looking for that to happen again?

To me this is silly.....we are in the current situatuion...lots of new releases,

more then enough for almost anyones taste because demand rose and the

market place grew. All you need to do is keep it going, instead we seem to

be cutting down the apple tree to get the apples.

Njja

 

[Firebat]

I think you guys are getting too philosophical. NASCAR diecast is the perfect example. Production numbers when NASCAR was not the phenomenon it is today (About 8 to 10 years ago) were anywhere from 1000 to 2000, and there was a very large fan base then. Now the fan base has expanded, the sport is through the roof in popularity, and the production numbers are 25,000 to "unlimited". This Hobby is an exact parallel, fueled by capitalizing on an emergence of popularity of a product. Modern collectables don't blend well with modern business, if there is a demand, business will respond with greater production. That is not the makings of a collectable. The new stuff, say from 2 years ago, will absolutely not do that well, they are "Unlimited". On the other hand, I don't care what they are worth, I am just going to keep rubbing dirt and weathering chalk on them. Alex

 

[nmrocks]

I think you guys are getting too philosophical. NASCAR diecast is the perfect example. Production numbers when NASCAR was not the phenomenon it is today (About 8 to 10 years ago) were anywhere from 1000 to 2000, and there was a very large fan base then. Now the fan base has expanded, the sport is through the roof in popularity, and the production numbers are 25,000 to "unlimited". This Hobby is an exact parallel, fueled by capitalizing on an emergence of popularity of a product. Modern collectables don't blend well with modern business, if there is a demand, business will respond with greater production. That is not the makings of a collectable. The new stuff, say from 2 years ago, will absolutely not do that well, they are "Unlimited". On the other hand, I don't care what they are worth, I am just going to keep rubbing dirt and weathering chalk on them. Alex

2 things I'll say in response to that. First I don't believe as has been voiced earlier that the collector base is very large in our realm, in the very low 1000's for the pre-painted metal toy soldier niche.
Second, I believe growth for this market is also extremely limited, kids are just not interested, they been raised on hyper stimulating electonics and such and are basically ignorant of history today. There is also a cultural bias that would simply stop any major growth. Can you imagine what the politically correct and morally superior media and establishment crowd would do if our conventions and shows drew in the 10's of thousands?
they would be all over us as promoting war and hate and poluting the minds of our children!
No this is about managing a very small market which is probably more sensitive to these issues than the train or other collectable markets.
Ray
whats your opinion on that?

 

[Firebat]

2 things I'll say in response to that. First I don't believe as has been voiced earlier that the collector base is very large in our realm, in the very low 1000's for the pre-painted metal toy soldier niche.
Second, I believe growth for this market is also extremely limited, kids are just not interested, they been raised on hyper stimulating electonics and such and are basically ignorant of history today. There is also a cultural bias that would simply stop any major growth. Can you imagine what the politically correct and morally superior media and establishment crowd would do if our conventions and shows drew in the 10's of thousands?
they would be all over us as promoting war and hate and poluting the minds of our children!
No this is about managing a very small market which is probably more sensitive to these issues than the train or other collectable markets.
Ray
whats your opinion on that?

Once again I don't really care, I am just throwing dirt on them. The exact parallel is this, what ever our fan base is, it appears to me that it has grown, and in response the manufacturers, to increase profit, have obviously waited longer to retire products. HB actually said they will make their stuff until there is little or no demand for a particular item. And the worse thing is, if I get onto a hobby, collectable or investment it enivitably goes down, and I am getting deeper and deper into this one
!!!!! Alex

 

[indiana81]

Again as you say you have been collecting for 8 months...I understand your

feelings as mine where much the same in the begining. After you have spent

5 or 6 years and 25 to 35 thousand you may appreciate your collection having

some value. As your tastes change its nice to be able so sell a few older sets

and buy something you missed or spend a thousand or two that you just took

in. If as you say you experienced other collections become valueless....I'm

certain you are not looking for that to happen again?

To me this is silly.....we are in the current situatuion...lots of new releases,

more then enough for almost anyones taste because demand rose and the

market place grew. All you need to do is keep it going, instead we seem to

be cutting down the apple tree to get the apples.

Njja

Oh yeah, I have no doubt that it would be nice to know that a $35,000 collection has value. And perhaps when I get to that point, I'll be looking at it differently. If the collection depreciated, that would be unfortunate. But if it happens, it happens. As long as I still had the collection, that would be enough for me.
I'm sure that my being new to this hobby is influencing my "oh well" attitude toward the monetary value of collections. But the emotional/sentimental value far outweighs the financial value for me. To illustrate, I love my K&C Matilda tank. But I'm happy as a clam with my FoV Matilda too. If for some reason the K&C Matilda dropped to the price of a FoV Matilda, I'd still be content. My passion for WW2 is the driving force in my collecting. Heaven forbid that my WW2 interest fades.
Whatever the case, the only thing any of us can do is roll with it, y'know?
I understand where you're coming from though. I'm just coming from a different direction. Has Andy chimed in on this?
Justin
P.S. I didn't mean to imply I got shafted with the comics. I did see how the collector frenzy and market glut in the early to mid-90's back-fired. Still had fun at the time.

 

[Mr Man]

Second, I believe growth for this market is also extremely limited, kids are just not interested, they been raised on hyper stimulating electonics and such and are basically ignorant of history today. There is also a cultural bias that would simply stop any major growth. Can you imagine what the politically correct and morally superior media and establishment crowd would do if our conventions and shows drew in the 10's of thousands?

nmrocks, by your reconning, we may as well just throw dirt on them as, there won't be enyone left to pay premium prices for this stuff so, what matter production numbers.

Then, without sufficient numbers, how can the collector base increase? Future value will depend on the number of sets lost to play, mothers, clumsy cleaning ladies etc... Only the strong will survive and by so doing, gain in value.

 

[Firebat]

Usually things that were never meant to be collectable become valuable. A good example would be GI Joe. The original Gi Joes were a kids toy, then those kids grew up and wanted to claim a piece of their childhood, and they became valuable. Without limited production it is difficult to "create" a collectable. I go back to the NASCAR just prior to its recent popularity. There was 100 times the fan base as our hobby and a 1000 to 2000 run, made for a piece that would be worth something. And they still are. As the numbers climbed the value went down. Very simple concept. All of the fancy theories will not change that. Are you sure some of you are not working for the manufacturers, sometimes I wonder. Firebat

 

[kilted vampire]

Firebat, for the most part I will agree with you. I will add this. Any one who buys toys as an investment and loses money deserves what they get. How many times do you see some dealer at a toy show with the same stuff year after year refusing to sell because the books say an item is worth so much. Hahahahhahhah. books are a great way to see what is out there period. Items for sale are worth what the secnd hand market will bear and no more Speculators you have been warned I buy soldiers because I like them, the same for my trains I run them they are toys. End soap box monologue

 

[nmrocks]

nmrocks, by your reconning, we may as well just throw dirt on them as, there won't be enyone left to pay premium prices for this stuff so, what matter production numbers.

Then, without sufficient numbers, how can the collector base increase? Future value will depend on the number of sets lost to play, mothers, clumsy cleaning ladies etc... Only the strong will survive and by so doing, gain in value.

I think there will always be a market for toy soldiers, don't get me wrong, I also think it will also always be very limited for the reasons I stated before.
It doesn't change the passion of the hobby or the intensity of it's collectors,
but I just believe it will always have a limited following. Thats not a slam on the hobby, it's more a lement of the lack of value that society is putting on the past in an effort to make the buck today. Anyone who works in the a technology based work environment knows what of I speak.
The better mouse trap does not include sentimentality for the past, it scorns it.
Ray

 

[Firebat]

Speculators you have been warned I buy soldiers because I like them, the same for my trains I run them they are toys. End soap box monologue

Hey .....I throw dirt on them, I don't care what they are worth...But when the topic is brought up I tell it like it is....I don't like being BSed with wishful theories and Biased opinions........... DROP THE PRODUCTION NUMBERS........END OF STORY..........I need those tank riders, I better jump on them, because they are being retired......It's about time............See now, that is the way it is supposed to be..... Firebat

 

[nmrocks]

Hey .....I throw dirt on them, I don't care what they are worth...But when the topic is brought up I tell it like it is....I don't like being BSed with wishful theories and Biased opinions........... DROP THE PRODUCTION NUMBERS........END OF STORY.......... Firebat

You should be very happy with the new Retired list.
Ray

 

[CannonFodder1971]

When a toy hobby becomes overly-oriented towards collectors:

http://www.slate.com/id/2146218/?GT1=8483

Don't drop the production numbers too much!

 

[Firebat]

When a toy hobby becomes overly-oriented towards collectors:

http://www.slate.com/id/2146218/?GT1=8483

Don't drop the production numbers too much!

I Agree........... just enough to keep it interesting, so the manufacturers can make their well deserved money, and we get someting a little special Alex

 

[OzDigger]

When a toy hobby becomes overly-oriented towards collectors:

http://www.slate.com/id/2146218/?GT1=8483

Don't drop the production numbers too much!

Baseball isn't big in Australia as you guys may know.

However, several years ago my two boys were into Pokemon cards that you collect and play a card game with. Every Saturday morning I HAD to take the boys to our local card shop to buy cards and battle it out against other kids.

After they grew out of Pokemon they started collecting 'Lord of the Rings' trading cards made by Decipher - I also became somewhat addicted to that one as I'm a big LotR fan.

After LotR my eldest son moved onto 'Magic The Gathering' that had way to many cards for me to remember so I didn't get into that game with him. He used to kick my *** at LotR as he got older so the card game novelty was wearing off for me anyway

Just to cheer myself up one day, I added up the approximate cost of collecting all those cards and I became physically ill and stopped counting after $5,000 over the three years or so we were hard core card collectors. They are now worth somewhere between $50 and $500 depending upon what 'card guy' you talk to. May they have something nasty happen to them

I guess the big winners were 'that' card shop and the card makers. But we still have fond memories of chasing cards and playing against each other. And that's what hobbies are all about, especially when you can share them with your kids. I have to say I think trying to remember all those cards and what they do helped improve my kids memories and hand eye co-ordination.

So there you have it. If you think there is big money in hobbies over the longer term you'll be very disappointed. Just go along for the ride guys - not the monetary gain. Which is just an illusion, except perhaps in the short term.