New Panther! (1 Viewer)

[GJB22]

I'm happy to see that a new Panther is released, and it's also very easy on the wallet! I can't wait to see how it compares to the last Normandy Panther.

 

[unglesbeemj]

I am looking forward to the chance to examine the tank in person and see the paint scheme under natural light. From just these initial photos, the tank appears to provide a level of detail in line with the HB panthers.

What made WS72 so appealing to me were the crew, that remains a strong point for the previous version. It would be interesting to see some comparisons once this tank is available.

I am guessing the absence of unit markings allows greater flexibility for use in a variety of Normandy settings perhaps?

 

[Phantom Warrior]

I am looking forward to the chance to examine the tank in person and see the paint scheme under natural light. From just these initial photos, the tank appears to provide a level of detail in line with the HB panthers.

What made WS72 so appealing to me were the crew, that remains a strong point for the previous version. It would be interesting to see some comparisons once this tank is available.

I am guessing the absence of unit markings allows greater flexibility for use in a variety of Normandy settings perhaps?

The 12th SS Panzer Regiment consisted of 2 Battalions. The first battalion had 4 companies (1 - 4) of Panther tanks - 66 in total. The 2nd battalion had 5 companies (5 - 9) of Panzer IV tanks - 96 in total. The K&C model would be 3rd companie, 2nd platoon, 3rd tank.

The symbol of the 12th SS was

 

[unglesbeemj]

WS72 has the marking of the 12th SS Panzer Regiment, but the new panther does not appear to have this symbol - from the initial photos anyway.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

WS72 has the marking of the 12th SS Panzer Regiment, but the new panther does not appear to have this symbol - from the initial photos anyway.

Both are from the 3rd companie of the 12th SS Panzer Regiment - the #304 could indicate the 4th tank in HQ in the 3rd companie unless they started numbering platoons with 0.

I just checked the scale and it appears to be a full 1:30 scale. It is exactly the same size as the HB Panther. I would assume the new K&C Panther will also be the same size.

As to which to get, I am sticking with WS072 which I really like. I don't know what they sell for on e-bay, but it must be more than $139.

Terry

 

[Mitch]

WSS72 was a cracker however, it had two different sets of wheels on one tank. The road wheels were the 800mm steel wheels yet, the spares were the more traditional bowl shaped wheels we come to expect on panther and Jagpanther. Apart from that it was a good set.

Later today I will be posting some pics of a converted one I have just finished to the specs of a fellow collector in LAH markings.
Mitch

 

[OzDigger]

I like the new Panther and have grown fond of my old WS72 despite its wheel issues.

Now we have to lobby Andy for a new Jagdpanther.

 

[graycap]

The new Panther (and PAK) looks very nice and is very reasonably priced. However it is a pity the K & C Normandy range is so fixated on Waffen SS units particularly the 2nd and 12th. It would be nice to see some Wehrmacht armour sometime (eg Panzer Lehr) as well. Perhaps Andy could think about issuing as a separate model a half-figure of a Wehrmacht tank commander to enablke the Panther to be displayed as German army vehicle. Just a thought.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

What wheel issue? Panthers were produced with steel wheels in September 1944, and March/April 1945, and the spares where usually the old rubber rimmed wheels. The steel wheels were Tiger II wheels.

Terry

 

[Mitch]

I think we are talking about the fact that there were two types of wheels on the WSS72 Panther
Mitch

 

[Phantom Warrior]

I think we are talking about the fact that there were two types of wheels on the WSS72 Panther
Mitch

That is exactly what I am referring to. The wheels in use on WS072 are the flat steel rimmed wheels used in production when the rubber rimmed "dish" wheels were not available at the factory. The flat steel rimmed wheels where the ones used on late model Tiger I and on Tiger II. The spares on WS072 are the standard rubber rimmed dish shaped wheels normally on a Panther. The model represents a situation that actually occured with Panthers in late 1944 and in 1945.

Terry

 

[OzDigger]

What wheel issue? Panthers were produced with steel wheels in September 1944, and March/April 1945, and the spares where usually the old rubber rimmed wheels. The steel wheels were Tiger II wheels.

Terry

The wheel issues imo are:

1) Flat wheels fitted to the running gear and dished spare wheels.

2) Lots of shrubery in the wheels to partly camoflage the fact they are a single moulding rather than individual.

 

[Mitch]

That is exactly what I am referring to. The wheels in use on WS072 are the flat steel rimmed wheels used in production when the rubber rimmed "dish" wheels were not available at the factory. The flat steel rimmed wheels where the ones used on late model Tiger I and on Tiger II. The spares on WS072 are the standard rubber rimmed dish shaped wheels normally on a Panther. The model represents a situation that actually occured with Panthers in late 1944 and in 1945.

Terry

Yes, no problems with the 800mm and 860mm wheels but, from what I know, you could not cross repair with these two different kind of wheels. I got this info from a german WWII tanker who I interviewed a number of times for some research I was doing and, it came up because he had many AFV models including this one.

If you have photos of a panther with two sets of wheels I would like to see them but, I have not seen any does not mean they do not exist but, cannot see how the running gear would work
Mitch
Mitch

 

[OzDigger]

Yes, no problems with the 800mm and 860mm wheels but, from what I know, you could not cross repair with these two different kind of wheels. I got this info from a german WWII tanker who I interviewed a number of times for some research I was doing and, it came up because he had many AFV models including this one.

If you have photos of a panther with two sets of wheels I would like to see them but, I have not seen any does not mean they do not exist but, cannot see how the running gear would work
Mitch
Mitch

I could be wrong but I have only ever seen pics of the dished wheels being fitted to the outer most set, the inners were usually flat. To me the issue, albeit minor in an earlier polystone tank, is that the wheels on WS72 are ALL flat (I can almost hear the googling )

 

[Mitch]

Ozdigger...

Your right and anyone who has seen the traditional format untracked or, built a plastic kit knows this. All I was saying was that you can't place two sets of wheels on the same running chassis.

Yes it is a minor mistake and, when I said it it was due to the fact I have just converted a WSS72 Panther for a collector who among other things he wanted changed was this point.

It was never meant to turn into war and peace over wheels just pointing out a bit of info passed on to me and, as I did not buy the set because I prefer chrisp wheels like HB or, K&C Jagpanther its only really, important to those who like to quote chapter and verse from the history books which, have been known all to often to be wrong
Mitch

 

[unglesbeemj]

Ozdigger...

Your right and anyone who has seen the traditional format untracked or, built a plastic kit knows this. All I was saying was that you can't place two sets of wheels on the same running chassis.

Yes it is a minor mistake and, when I said it it was due to the fact I have just converted a WSS72 Panther for a collector who among other things he wanted changed was this point.

It was never meant to turn into war and peace over wheels just pointing out a bit of info passed on to me and, as I did not buy the set because I prefer chrisp wheels like HB or, K&C Jagpanther its only really, important to those who like to quote chapter and verse from the history books which, have been known all to often to be wrong
Mitch

Looking forward to seeing the photos of your converted WS72!

 

[Phantom Warrior]

I could be wrong but I have only ever seen pics of the dished wheels being fitted to the outer most set, the inners were usually flat. To me the issue, albeit minor in an earlier polystone tank, is that the wheels on WS72 are ALL flat (I can almost hear the googling )

Yes they are all flat on the K&C model as they are all flat in the photos of Panther Ausf G Fgst.Nr.121052 completed by M.A.N. 22 September 1944 on pages 5-187, 5-188 and 5-189 of Panzer Tracts No.5-3. As for the inner wheels, photos in the same publication show they were not always flat, they also dished, but the opposite way.

The flat steel rimmed wheels from Tiger tanks were used at the points in time when the factories had run out of rubber for the rubber rimmed road wheels.

Terry

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Yes, no problems with the 800mm and 860mm wheels but, from what I know, you could not cross repair with these two different kind of wheels. I got this info from a german WWII tanker who I interviewed a number of times for some research I was doing and, it came up because he had many AFV models including this one.

If you have photos of a panther with two sets of wheels I would like to see them but, I have not seen any does not mean they do not exist but, cannot see how the running gear would work
Mitch
Mitch

I do have such a photo. Panzer Tracts No.5-3. photos of Panther Ausf G on the assebmly line at M.A.N. April 1945 show all wheels to be the 860 mm rubber tired dished roadwheels except the roadwheels in the 8th position on both sides of the tank which are 800mm, flat steel rimmed road wheels.
I don't know for sure, but I could imagine that one or two rubber rimmed dished roadwheels could bee fitted to at least the 8th position of a tank equipped with flat roadwheels.

terry

 

[Phantom Warrior]

The wheel issues imo are:

1) Flat wheels fitted to the running gear and dished spare wheels.

2) Lots of shrubery in the wheels to partly camoflage the fact they are a single moulding rather than individual.

I agree that the tracks are not detailed as well as on the new model, and Why the spares would be dished rubber rimmed wheels instead of flat steel rimmed wheels is also a puzzle, but not impossible.

I suspect Andy's artistic license. An easier moulding of flat wheels for the tracks and the more stylish dished wheels as spares.

Terry

 

[unglesbeemj]

Yes they are all flat on the K&C model as they are all flat in the photos of Panther Ausf G Fgst.Nr.121052 completed by M.A.N. 22 September 1944 on pages 5-187, 5-188 and 5-189 of Panzer Tracts No.5-3. As for the inner wheels, photos in the same publication show they were not always flat, they also dished, but the opposite way.

The flat steel rimmed wheels from Tiger tanks were used at the points in time when the factories had run out of rubber for the rubber rimmed road wheels.

Terry

Photos showing the Tiger wheels on the Panther Ausf G as modelled on WS72, and the dished shape outer/inner wheels, the more prevalent pattern.