No Parade figure compromise (1 Viewer)

[PanzerAce1944]

As another proud Jew, I was also bothered by the Hitler statue. I could kind of understand it if it was in a series of evil historical figures (Stalin, etc...), but as it stands, I don't know what CS was thinking.

The owner of the company making the statue in question is also Jewish.

Wayne

 

[nysoldiers]

The owner of the company making the statue in question is also Jewish.

Wayne

Maybe he can rationalize by saying "it's business not personal"!
Doesn't matter what religion you identify with hitler should be offensive to all civilized human beings.
Just to be fair I wouldn't want a statue of Stalin, Mao, Mussolini or sadam Hussein either.

 

[Desertkiwi]

I always find the moralistic debates of this nature on the forum fascinating, if not perplexing, often hypocritical, boarding upon the ridicules and usually involve the same members.



.

 

[Napoleon1er]

Wayne -- I understand your point, but that doesn't change my feelings toward the statue. I would never buy a lone figure of any horrible dictator, regardless of my personal connection to their atrocities. I don't mean to imply anything about anyone who would, I am just making a personal statement about my preferences and thoughts on collecting.

 

[PanzerAce1944]

Guys,
I understand everyone that takes offense on this subject. There are no logical points to argue in supporting the actions of WWII Germany.
Those that collect the dark side stuff do so because it is "Dark Side Stuff" Most that are drawn into collecting German items are drawn in by
the Hugo Boss uniforms, Extensive use of camo uniforms and some of the best weapons and technology of the time. Logic makes many wonder
why some want items that once represented evil. Seems confederates are more popular than Yanks,German more popular than say
U.S. or Russian, etc. Tiger tanks outsell Russian T-34's. Who would not want a real German MP 40 in their display cabinet ! Those that actually spew
hatred and collect this subject are the ones to focus some added attention to. Just my take :salute::

Wayne

 

[Vezzolf]

Wayne makes some good points....There is a obviously greater fascination with Germany WWII especially in regards to AFV's.....(sales prove this point)...Again this is NOT a moral issue for me.... I do have some Nazi marching figures and some of K/C Hitler figures in my collection.....Why?....Historical Significance.....I also have Montgomery, Churchill, Eisenhower,and Patton figures (all made by K/C)......That Said....I do definitely LIMIT my purchases and display of Nazi Parading Figures..... I do not make them the "central focus" of my WWII collection.....To do so IMO indicates a very confused perception of who and what the Nazi Party was in reality.....Again I see no need for FL to dive into this area and I personally would not buy FL marching SS Nazi's anyway.... K/C has covered it very well and if i may add extensively.... I have no desire to have a larger Stalin or Hitler Statue in my collection....The small K/C figures of these evil men are more then enough to satisfy historical significance in a WWII collection.

 

[King Tiger II]

My point of view is this.

I collect because i like history, and like to have pieces of history with me. It can be war books, computers wargame, Toy soldiers.

Even if Matt does release Nazi stuff, i wont be mad at him because Nazi did bad things to peoples.

I have Ben Ladin in my collection from K&C, do i sympathize with them, not at all.
But i do like to have this guy in my collection.

Does it make me a bad person , not at all. Do i sympathize with Nazi regime not at all.

I like and collect Nazi stuff in particularly because of their whole costume, the uniform of the Nazi with the badges , decorations , even today is really in my point of view really cool.

I live in Canada and Nazi costume are better than current Canadian army uniform.

I have soo many war books in my collection i need to live 300 years to read what i already have.

What did Nazi regime during that period is absurb.

I must say thank you to Andy at K&C to have the guts to release the LAH series. Every day i enjoy looking at my LAH parading in my display.

Will i collect Islamic stuff ? NO!!! Why ? I just feel at the moment its not the right time, but my feeling on this is a NO, i wont collect this kind of stuff. Is it different than Nazi regime ? I dont think so.

If i would collect toy soldiers based on their past history, i really think my collection would be greatly reduced in size, maybe to a few dozens pieces.

Anyway... Is Napoleon better than Hitler ? is Eisenhower better than Hitler ? I think every man or regime as it bad and good things. Is IE is better than Hitler ?

Is Trump better than Hitler ? Thats a good question. Joke.

I do think that in every person we have an evil side sleeping in us. We just need to leave it sleeping nothing more.

In the end this is a Toy Hobby after all, nothing more.

Like Andy says all the time ... Happy collecting.

Serge :smile2:

 

[Napoleon1er]

This is getting to be a bit much.

 

[daruss]

Well said! I mean, if we look at this objectively, the Roman Empire slaughtered and enslaved half the world during its peak in power. Should stop making Roman Empire figures. Give me a break! I'm just putting out ideas for FL. BECAUSE when other companies make a series, they don't do it right.

My point of view is this.

I collect because i like history, and like to have pieces of history with me. It can be war books, computers wargame, Toy soldiers.

Even if Matt does release Nazi stuff, i wont be mad at him because Nazi did bad things to peoples.

I have Ben Ladin in my collection from K&C, do i sympathize with them, not at all.
But i do like to have this guy in my collection.

Does it make me a bad person , not at all. Do i sympathize with Nazi regime not at all.

I like and collect Nazi stuff in particularly because of their whole costume, the uniform of the Nazi with the badges , decorations , even today is really in my point of view really cool.

I live in Canada and Nazi costume are better than current Canadian army uniform.

I have soo many war books in my collection i need to live 300 years to read what i already have.

What did Nazi regime during that period is absurb.

I must say thank you to Andy at K&C to have the guts to release the LAH series. Every day i enjoy looking at my LAH parading in my display.

Will i collect Islamic stuff ? NO!!! Why ? I just feel at the moment its not the right time, but my feeling on this is a NO, i wont collect this kind of stuff. Is it different than Nazi regime ? I dont think so.

If i would collect toy soldiers based on their past history, i really think my collection would be greatly reduced in size, maybe to a few dozens pieces.

Anyway... Is Napoleon better than Hitler ? is Eisenhower better than Hitler ? I think every man or regime as it bad and good things. Is IE is better than Hitler ?

Is Trump better than Hitler ? Thats a good question. Joke.

I do think that in every person we have an evil side sleeping in us. We just need to leave it sleeping nothing more.

In the end this is a Toy Hobby after all, nothing more.

Like Andy says all the time ... Happy collecting.

Serge :smile2:

 

[tdubel]

Everything has a historical place and I don't whitewash anything in my view. I am the antithesis of PC and to be brutally honest, my motto has always been, if you don't like it, don't buy it or look at it, if you don't want to hear it, don't listen. I don't mean this in any way offensive to the opinions stated as everyone has a right to them. I have always been a first amendment guy regardless of who is offended, myself included many times. There are a lot of offensive things out there everyday, I just ignore them.

To this topic, Matt has always been very definitive and that is his right, it is his business and I applaud him for running it the way he wants to. Same goes for Andy and for Brian. I don't begrudge anyone for making what they want, I like the variety to choose from.

Tom

 

[King Tiger II]

Well said Tom and Daruss.

Serge :smile2:

 

[jazzeum]

Looks like another Nazi discussion thread that's gone off the rails {eek3}

"Been there, done that" :wink2:

 

[tdubel]

Looks like another Nazi discussion thread that's gone off the rails {eek3}

"Been there, done that" :wink2:

It actually is a rather calm one! Notice I didn't say what I colllect, I just don't begrudge someone else or the makers etc. I do not have a parade diorama for the record!

In all seriousness I kind of a live let live on this subject. I have a ton of battle flag and rebel in my household and it's only symbol to me is heritage. If that offends someone, Not my intention but it is what it is.
Tom

 

[jazzeum]

Compared to past ones, Tom, it is pretty calm. I've participated in a few scorchers, which is why I tend to generally avoid these although I agree with some of the sentiments.

 

[marco55]

Mongols,Romans,Attila the Hun.I think the span of time is why when collect these there are no arguments. Hitler lived in our lifespan and with modern technology it was able to be documented visually what the Nazi's did.There have been many monsters in human history.
Mark

 

[jazzeum]

Mongols,Romans,Attila the Hun.I think the span of time is why when collect these there are no arguments. Hitler lived in our lifespan and with modern technology it was able to be documented visually what the Nazi's did.There have been many monsters in human history.
Mark

I'm sure that in the 19th Century people were saying similar things about Napoleon.

 

[zblang]

It's why I say to each his own. I'm with tom in the sense of do what you want, make what you want and buy what you want, but you can't expect me to support it when these are the people who killed my relatives.

 

[Napoleon1er]

It's why I say to each his own. I'm with tom in the sense of do what you want, make what you want and buy what you want, but you can't expect me to support it when these are the people who killed my relatives.

I agree. I don't think any of us are advocating censorship or anything of the sort.
We are just saying that, as collectors or manufacturers, we do not support something. Others are free to do what they wish, but we have made our choice.

One thing I don't think some posters understand is that for some of us, this is not about one of many historical figures/groups that committed atrocities. This is about a particular person/group that killed our relatives.

 

[King & Country]

Well said! I mean, if we look at this objectively, the Roman Empire slaughtered and enslaved half the world during its peak in power. Should stop making Roman Empire figures. Give me a break! I'm just putting out ideas for FL. BECAUSE when other companies make a series, they don't do it right.

First of all thanks Daruss for bringing up the subject...And thankyou to all of those who have contributed to the discussion so far...There are valid points on all sides and as has been generally agreed upon "You choose to collect what you are interested in and allow others the same privilege." Same goes for manufacturers...For a whole raft of reasons each company will select what historical subjects appeal to them and what we all hope suits or interests the majority of our collectors.

A couple of small points however...For the life of me I don't personally see a whole lot of difference in whether someone collects 'Berlin '38' or 'Waffen SS' or indeed 'Wehrmacht' come to that...
The major War Crimes and atrocities were committed AFTER hostilities broke out in September 1939... not before

While no one excuses the Nazis' murders, beatings and other horrible excesses in those pre war years they pale in comparison to the wholesale slaughter of millions of Jewish people, Gypsies and other inncent civilians by the SS, often aided and abetted by the Wehrmacht, especially in the East.

Like many here I am fascinated by WW2 and the events that led up to it...Particularly pre war Germany...How did one of the most educated and civilized countries in Europe come under the hypnotic and demonic spell of Adolf Hitler and the National Socialists...No matter how many relevant books I read or movies and documentaries I watch I am still uncovering lots of things I never knew before.

Finally, a good friend and fellow collector hates the 'Berlin '38 Series' and absolutely, resolutely and defiantly refuses to have any figure connected to it in his collection..."Black-uniformed Scum!" He calls them...Amazingly however he has a huge collection of Waffen SS figures and fighting vehicles proudly and prominently displayed both in his office and home...Go figure as they say..?

Best wishes and happy collecting, Andy.

 

[Combat]

As Brad has noted, this discussion has been vented in the past. Just a couple of points.

1) This is a sensitive topic because of the relative proximity in time to the events. I remember attending a holocaust remberence event at my place of work just a few years ago and was astounded when they asked those who had lost relatives to stand up and and an enoromous number of people did so.

2) The Nazis are different from other bad guys in that they intentionally designed uniforms, flags, and other paraphernalia as a propaganda tool. These are not just soldiers marching like an army but a publicity tool to promote their cause. The Nazis were experts in visual propaganda. So these parades have a symbolic visual impact that other marching "bad" guys from history do not.

3) The bad guys are always a source of fascination. It's a thin line though between observing evil and learning from history (good, bad or indifferent) and developing an unheathly fixiation with it to the point of being enticed. They run endless Nazi and Hitler shows on History Channel (at least when they take a break from UFOs and ghost). They are apparently big ratings draws as history goes.

With all that said, this boils down to subjective intent in collecting these figures. I doubt few, if any, toy solider collectors do so to glorify the nazis. I'm not aware of any examples of pro-nazi groups using them to promote their cause etc. Whether they are offensive or not is largely in the eye of the beholder and I generally don't have any problem with these being made and displayed with the understanding that others may have a reasoned difference of opinion.