Pacific - episode 4 (1 Viewer)

[marco55]

Yes but there were moral men around even in the worst of times, just as in

life. The picture we are being fed, of young marines would hardly seem

to make them a match for the japanese soldier. We know this was not the

case. I worked with and knew quite a few Veteran Marines from WWII and

an Army Ranger, they were hard as nails.

Yes they were hard as nails but what made them that way?Could it be what they saw and went through.
Mark

 

[Combat]

It's hard to balance accuracy with entertainment. That may be the fundamental problem with this series. TV viewers want action and heroes. The reality is different and often not very entertaining.

 

[binder001]

It's interesting the mixed reception that this miniseries is receiving. I guess that "The Pacific" isn't telling me a lot that I hadn't known before but it sure does emphasize that the tropics is a heck of a place for combat. If the enemy doesn't kill you the jungle will.

By the way, a lot of Japanese preferred to fight at night - it neutralized some of the US firepower advantage, so the night actions are quite correct.

Gary G.

 

[kingtoot]

Yes but there were moral men around even in the worst of times, just as in
life. The picture we are being fed, of young marines would hardly seem
to make them a match for the japanese soldier. We know this was not the
case. I worked with and knew quite a few Veteran Marines from WWII and
an Army Ranger, they were hard as nails.

They were all moral men, trained to kill. Read the books that this series was based on. They were written by moral men.

 

[Spitfrnd]

I couldn't agree more. It showed how men will react when faced with impossible conditions. I think the things we saw (soldiers commiting suicide, soldiers killing potential POWs and soldiers discussing killing their superiors) took place and show war not to be the way it's generally portrayed in Hollywood myth.

My father certainly said it took place, and not just discussing either. For that matter, I know it took place in my little war. Morality is heavily challenged in the best of wars and the conditions in the Pacific, as well as the conduct of the enemy, were hardly the best.

 

[Rob]

I couldn't agree more. It showed how men will react when faced with impossible conditions. I think the things we saw (soldiers commiting suicide, soldiers killing potential POWs and soldiers discussing killing their superiors) took place and show war not to be the way it's generally portrayed in Hollywood myth.

Yes indeed.And the Hell the Marines went through would be enough to push anyone over the edge,and of course this was not new in warfare.Its well known in WW1 young men took their own lives rather than continue in the Horror of the Trenches.

Suicide in the Trenches by Siegfried Sassoon;

I knew a simple soldier boy,
Who grinned at life in empty joy,
Slept soundly through the lonesome dark,
And whistled early with the lark.

In winter trenches cowed and glum,
With crumps and lice and lack of rum,
He put a bullet through his brain,
And no one spoke of him again.

You smug faced crowds with kindling eye,
Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
Sneak home and pray you'll never know,
The Hell where youth and laughter go.



I feel this poem could be for Marines or Tommies or any young men we ask to go out and kill or be killed on our behalf.

Rob

 

[jazzeum]

Rob,

That is one of the most poignant poems I can recall reading. Siegfried Sassoon was a gifted poet and writer, who experienced, as many did, siginificant losses during WWI.

 

[Rob]

Rob,

That is one of the most poignant poems I can recall reading. Siegfried Sassoon was a gifted poet and writer, who experienced, as many did, siginificant losses during WWI.

Superb isn't it Brad,he was indeed gifted and wrote it 'how it was'.

If I could ask the patience of the posters on this great thread one final time,there is one more poem from Sassoon that I'd like to post as again it highlights what happens to our young men more times than it should.

The General -Siegfried Sassoon

Good morning good morning! the General said
When we met him last week on our way up the line
Now the Soldiers he smiled at are most of em dead
And we're cursing his staff for incompetent swine.
'He's a cheery old card' grunted Harry to Jack,
As they slogged up to Arras with Rifle and pack

But he did for them both with his plan of attack.



Hope you guys didn't mind me posting these,I had no wish to drift the thread.

Rob

 

[Spitfrnd]

The connection is likely most horrible conditions of war. The Pacific and the WWI trenches have a lot in common in that regard.

 

[Njja]

They were all moral men, trained to kill. Read the books that this series was based on. They were written by moral men.

...................................................................................................

Different people have different experiences, and see things in different

ways. If you are enjoying the series, that is terrific. You have many more to

look forward to.

Others may have a different opinion.....that is life.

 

[jazzeum]

I think we can all agree that different people act differently under certain conditions. No two people may act exactly the same.

I used to work with someone whose first son was born with so many handicapps in so many different ways. When we would talk about it from time to time and I said that I don't think I could exhibit the same grace under pressure that he showed (particularly with a very demanding job), he said something to the effect that you won't know how you'll act until you're faced with the situation.

 

[kingtoot]

I am enjoying the series, including the boring parts..just like i did with Band of Brothers during it's many lulls in the fighting. Seems like others are enjoying it quite well..The poetry rings loud and clear for any war..Great perspective from a frontline grunt with a tremendous flair with words..hard-hitting and poetic at the same time.

 

[Njja]

I think we can all agree that different people act differently under certain conditions. No two people may act exactly the same.

I used to work with someone whose first son was born with so many handicapps in so many different ways. When we would talk about it from time to time and I said that I don't think I could exhibit the same grace under pressure that he showed (particularly with a very demanding job), he said something to the effect that you won't know how you'll act until you're faced with the situation.

....................................................................................................

Very well put Brad, and quite true. Once when returning to work I accidently

caused a group of fellows to slow down, they were on an entrance ramp to

the highway, and I was in the right lane. They pulled up along side me and

the passenger aimed a 45 at my head....I supose I could have swerved into

a ditch, or jammed on the brakes, but all I did was shrug my shoulders....at

that distance (mabe 10 feet) there really wasn't much you could do.

The boys decided to follow me so they got behind me and motioned for me to

pull over......yeah right.

 

[Stryker II]

Great poem Rob, and Jazzeum that statement is sooo true. I marvel at how parents of kids with "problems" are able to deal with them on a daily basis. It is alot like dealing with veterans with severe disabilities AFTER they have given all for thier friends and country..............Stryker

 

[lancer]

The Peleliu episodes will be real corkers. Few realize the horrendous fight that Peleliu was, being overshadowed by the more famous Iwo Jima and Okinawa. The First Marine Division suffered some 4600+ casualties. The First Marine Regt., commanded by Chesty Puller lost some 1749 men by D+6, of a 3200 man regiment, and had to be relieved. Puller's casualties alone were only 6 less than the First Marine Division lost on Guadalcanal. The US Army 81st Inf. Div. also lost some 1400 men. This was a terrible battle where the Japanese abandoned their previous banzai charge mentality for a stubborn, controlled defense strategy that would continue through the latter battles. I am sure "The Pacific" will do USMC sacrifice honor in it's portrayal.

 

[Warrior]

The Peleliu episodes will be real corkers. Few realize the horrendous fight that Peleliu was, being overshadowed by the more famous Iwo Jima and Okinawa. The First Marine Division suffered some 4600+ casualties. The First Marine Regt., commanded by Chesty Puller lost some 1749 men by D+6, of a 3200 man regiment, and had to be relieved. Puller's casualties alone were only 6 less than the First Marine Division lost on Guadalcanal. The US Army 81st Inf. Div. also lost some 1400 men. This was a terrible battle where the Japanese abandoned their previous banzai charge mentality for a stubborn, controlled defense strategy that would continue through the latter battles. I am sure "The Pacific" will do USMC sacrifice honor in it's portrayal.

Agreed 100% Al; the rest of the ride is going to be very bumpy, the landings on Peleliu and Iwo Jima specifically as well as the inland fighting. No more suicide night attacks, the Japanese will be dug in and waiting...........

 

[Louis Badolato]

Yes indeed.And the Hell the Marines went through would be enough to push anyone over the edge,and of course this was not new in warfare.Its well known in WW1 young men took their own lives rather than continue in the Horror of the Trenches.

Suicide in the Trenches by Siegfried Sassoon;

I knew a simple soldier boy,
Who grinned at life in empty joy,
Slept soundly through the lonesome dark,
And whistled early with the lark.

In winter trenches cowed and glum,
With crumps and lice and lack of rum,
He put a bullet through his brain,
And no one spoke of him again.

You smug faced crowds with kindling eye,
Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
Sneak home and pray you'll never know,
The Hell where youth and laughter go.



I feel this poem could be for Marines or Tommies or any young men we ask to go out and kill or be killed on our behalf.

Rob

What a poignient poem, as is the one in your following post, Rob. I agree completely with your and Brad's sentiments. I for one have never heard a shot fired in anger, and I feel very blessed that this is the case. I don't think any of us lucky civilians have the slightest idea of the horrors of war. I figure the worst I can imagine it can't even begin to approximate the privations that the brave service men who protect us have gone through over the years. What is worse? Freezing until you lose your toes to frostbite, or practically drowning standing up in a monsoon until you lose your toes to trench foot? Bone chilling cold, or brain cooking heat? Snow, monsoons, or the burning sands of a desert? Or weathering a noreaster at sea?

Whether they served in the murderously hot days and bone chillingly cold nights of North Africa (or Iraq or Afghanistan), the bitter cold of Bastogne (or indeed, of a bomber at 30,000 feet), the miserably hot Pacific Islands (or deserts of Kuwait), the monsoons of Burma (or Vietnam), or the chilling waters of the North Atlantic, we owe all of them our thanks.

 

[Fubar]

What a poignient poem, as is the one in your following post, Rob. I agree completely with your and Brad's sentiments. I for one have never heard a shot fired in anger, and I feel very blessed that this is the case. I don't think any of us lucky civilians have the slightest idea of the horrors of war. I figure the worst I can imagine it can't even begin to approximate the privations that the brave service men who protect us have gone through over the years. What is worse? Freezing until you lose your toes to frostbite, or practically drowning standing up in a monsoon until you lose your toes to trench foot? Bone chilling cold, or brain cooking heat? Snow, monsoons, or the burning sands of a desert? Or weathering a noreaster at sea?

Whether they served in the murderously hot days and bone chillingly cold nights of North Africa (or Iraq or Afghanistan), the bitter cold of Bastogne (or indeed, of a bomber at 30,000 feet), the miserably hot Pacific Islands (or deserts of Kuwait), the monsoons of Burma (or Vietnam), or the chilling waters of the North Atlantic, we owe all of them our thanks.

You have expressed my sentiments exactly.Thank you.
Harold

 

[Rob]

I am enjoying the series, including the boring parts..just like i did with Band of Brothers during it's many lulls in the fighting. Seems like others are enjoying it quite well..The poetry rings loud and clear for any war..Great perspective from a frontline grunt with a tremendous flair with words..hard-hitting and poetic at the same time.

Great poem Rob, and Jazzeum that statement is sooo true. I marvel at how parents of kids with "problems" are able to deal with them on a daily basis. It is alot like dealing with veterans with severe disabilities AFTER they have given all for thier friends and country..............Stryker

Thanks guys,I thought it appropriate.

What a poignient poem, as is the one in your following post, Rob. I agree completely with your and Brad's sentiments. I for one have never heard a shot fired in anger, and I feel very blessed that this is the case. I don't think any of us lucky civilians have the slightest idea of the horrors of war. I figure the worst I can imagine it can't even begin to approximate the privations that the brave service men who protect us have gone through over the years. What is worse? Freezing until you lose your toes to frostbite, or practically drowning standing up in a monsoon until you lose your toes to trench foot? Bone chilling cold, or brain cooking heat? Snow, monsoons, or the burning sands of a desert? Or weathering a noreaster at sea?

Whether they served in the murderously hot days and bone chillingly cold nights of North Africa (or Iraq or Afghanistan), the bitter cold of Bastogne (or indeed, of a bomber at 30,000 feet), the miserably hot Pacific Islands (or deserts of Kuwait), the monsoons of Burma (or Vietnam), or the chilling waters of the North Atlantic, we owe all of them our thanks.

Excellent post Louis,I agree 100%.Because of what previous and current generations do,we live in freedom.God bless every single one of them,whatever service,whatever theatre.

Rob

 

[marco55]

What a poignient poem, as is the one in your following post, Rob. I agree completely with your and Brad's sentiments. I for one have never heard a shot fired in anger, and I feel very blessed that this is the case. I don't think any of us lucky civilians have the slightest idea of the horrors of war. I figure the worst I can imagine it can't even begin to approximate the privations that the brave service men who protect us have gone through over the years. What is worse? Freezing until you lose your toes to frostbite, or practically drowning standing up in a monsoon until you lose your toes to trench foot? Bone chilling cold, or brain cooking heat? Snow, monsoons, or the burning sands of a desert? Or weathering a noreaster at sea?

Whether they served in the murderously hot days and bone chillingly cold nights of North Africa (or Iraq or Afghanistan), the bitter cold of Bastogne (or indeed, of a bomber at 30,000 feet), the miserably hot Pacific Islands (or deserts of Kuwait), the monsoons of Burma (or Vietnam), or the chilling waters of the North Atlantic, we owe all of them our thanks.

Nobody has said it better Louis and those poems can really get to you.
Mark