Paint Flaking (2 Viewers)

[joesgis]

I wonder if there was something in the plastic bags that is causing this. As Katana said, some kind of solvent that is causing the problem.

I really feel for you. This has got to suck big time.

Yes, I'm starting to believe it's some kind of extraneous chemical degradation not associated with the manufacturing of the figures. As Brad pointed out it seems to only be affecting these particular soldiers in this specific collection.

Joe

 

[joesgis]

A question I have is that should any paint flake off somewhat easily when you apply a little pressure from your fingernail? I'm finding that this happens very easily with my figures.

Cameron,
To answer your question the paint should not flake off w/ a little pressure from your fingernail. I've found FL, K & C, TG, WB, TCS, Conte, HB, Frontline, etc all stand up well to vigorous handling. There are only two types of figure that I have found that must be handled w/ great care, and they are Figarti, for reasons discussed beforehand, and Russian figures. Russians often do not prime their figures and do not typically use heavy base coats in an effort to retain maximum casting detail. Moreover, the Russian style of painting involves multiple thin coats, the method they use to create the smooth shifts of color blending associated w/ Russian figures. Thus, they are more susceptible to having paint rub off, chip away or fade in direct sunlight. Although FL employs similar painting techniques to the Russians (really a cross of what we see w/ most other manufacturers but w/ a more delicate, detailed touch and a Russian flare over the top), the finish on FL figures is much more resistant to wear. At least this is what I have experienced in studying miniatures over the years. Forgive me if I missed it beforehand but do you live near the ocean?

Joe

 

[joesgis]

My philosophy is that if I can’t display a figure, i.e., it’s kept in a box, I sell it. This is particularly true with First Legion as they are such quality that keeping them in a box doesn’t make any sense to me. I used to have about 60 to 70 Civil War soldiers, most of them in boxes. I sold all the ones I couldn’t display.

Brad,
I try to strictly adhere to your philosophy as well. Maybe I learned it from you? I have the same rule where whatever I buy must by displayable, and that often means trading, selling or gifting other things to make room. I don't have anything in boxes anymore unless it's something recently acquired and soon to be displayed. I find this also helps me keep my collection under control. But w/ today's prices that's not very hard to do! :smile2:

Joe

 

[Lo1863]

Forgive me if I missed it beforehand but do you live near the ocean?

Joe,
I do not live near the ocean. I live just north of Charlotte in NC. As stated earlier I have now found some King & Country figures flaking as well. They are small spots but when you add some pressure with your fingernail it spreads.

How many here honestly think that the cooler room has something to do with it? I would say it can get into the 50's at the coolest and then I'll warm it up with my electric heater when I go in there, which is typically every day. I would keep the door open, but I have two cats and it's still a storage room since my move last August.

 

[ivanmoe]

Joe,
I do not live near the ocean. I live just north of Charlotte in NC. As stated earlier I have now found some King & Country figures flaking as well. They are small spots but when you add some pressure with your fingernail it spreads.

If it was these two, you’re not alone:

https://forum.treefrogtreasures.com...hausen-and-Stahlschmidt&highlight=Steinhausen

How many here honestly think that the cooler room has something to do with it? I would say it can get into the 50's at the coolest and then I'll warm it up with my electric heater when I go in there, which is typically every day. I would keep the door open, but I have two cats and it's still a storage room since my move last August.

Cameron, on a worn surface, primer will appear before bare metal shows.

Is that bare metal in your pics or primer?

-Moe

 

[Alex]

Hi Cameron

I am only painting figures these days and I can tell you that prep is very important if you want to have a long lasting paint job :

- metal figures need to be sanded but not too smooth in order to permit good adhesion of primer
- then bath in dish washer soap and very long cleaning after under running water
- let it dry
- prime with good automobile primer (no primer showing in your pictures so this is the culprit.. paint will flake from primer but primer flaking ?? only if surface was not prepared carefuly before)
- only hold figure with gloves while painting it in order to prevent any oil contamination of the surface which would prevent acrylic paint adhesion (water based paint)

if you follow these steps, you will get a very long lasting paint job.

Joe,
I do not live near the ocean. I live just north of Charlotte in NC. As stated earlier I have now found some King & Country figures flaking as well. They are small spots but when you add some pressure with your fingernail it spreads.

How many here honestly think that the cooler room has something to do with it? I would say it can get into the 50's at the coolest and then I'll warm it up with my electric heater when I go in there, which is typically every day. I would keep the door open, but I have two cats and it's still a storage room since my move last August.

 

[Dragoon]

Hi Cameron

I am only painting figures these days and I can tell you that prep is very important if you want to have a long lasting paint job :

- metal figures need to be sanded but not too smooth in order to permit good adhesion of primer
- then bath in dish washer soap and very long cleaning after under running water
- let it dry
- prime with good automobile primer (no primer showing in your pictures so this is the culprit.. paint will flake from primer but primer flaking ?? only if surface was not prepared carefuly before)
- only hold figure with gloves while painting it in order to prevent any oil contamination of the surface which would prevent acrylic paint adhesion (water based paint)

if you follow these steps, you will get a very long lasting paint job.

I have to add a final step if your figures are going to be handled a lot.
Acrylics are a relatively soft paint, and will not harden over time like an oil paint. Therefore a final seal coat is required ( matte, satin or gloss ) to prevent
paint rub off with frequent handling.

 

[spartan71]

I had this problem with the first. Figarti tank that I had So. After thart I put a testors dull coat on them. I have a. .50 cal. Quad halftrack. Its been handled more times than I care for
No paint flaking......
Maybe somebody suggested it. But I am doing this on the fly while I am travelling..

 

[mikemiller1955]

I have to add a final step if your figures are going to be handled a lot.
Acrylics are a relatively soft paint, and will not harden over time like an oil paint. Therefore a final seal coat is required ( matte, satin or gloss ) to prevent
paint rub off with frequent handling.

I agree with Ken...
I have only had 2 figures ever have a flaking issue...
one was replaced by the manufacturer...
the other...
after touching it up...
I gave it a generous spray coat of matte (flat)...
this definitely sealed it forever...

 

[Alexander the Great]

I have had most of my soldier collection in storage here at my new place since I moved last August. Some are in their original boxes while others are in small bubble wrap bags. They are kept in my spare bedroom so they are not exposed to any big temperature changes other than it getting a little cool in that room due to keep the door shut. I recently started to pull a few of them out to look at them and noticed some paint flaking occurring on a few of my ACW figures. A photo is posted below of one of the Iron Brigade figures where the paint is flaking off his backpack. I have two other Iron Brigade members where the paint is flaking around the collar of his uniform and the other is the national flag bearer where the paint is flaking off his shoe. I also have a Confederate who has a spot on his blanket roll starting to flake. Granted these are the only ones I've inspected so far. Has anyone else experienced this with their FL figures? I must say it's quite depressing...

View attachment 225706

Was this issue ever resolved, and if yes how?...did the figures continue to flake?

 

[Lo1863]

Hello all,

Sorry for not giving any updates on my situation with my toy soldier collection as I've not been posting at all on here recently. I have exchanged several emails with Matt and he did offer to lend some help in the matter. I have not taken him up on it yet and who knows if I will. I do appreciate Matt though for taking time to exchange emails with me as he's a great guy. Truth of the matter is I have been kind of turned off to collecting any further due to this paint flaking issue I discovered on my First Legion and King & Country figures. I have moved my collection out of my spare bedroom to my main room. They are mostly all still wrapped in bubble bags and kept in plastic storage totes. I have not inspected every single figure, but have found a lot experiencing paint flaking to some degree. If it's not visible then the paint can easily be chipped off with slight pressure from your fingernail. I find it really hard to believe that the slight changes in the temperature in my spare bedroom caused all this. Maybe it's some kind of chemical from the bubble bags...who knows...

I have posted a picture below of one of my King & Country ACW figures. You can see the paint flaking on his hat which can easily be spread. I have also posted a picture of the bubble bags I used for most of my collection. The only sets I have that were not exposed to the temperature in my spare bedroom or the bubble bags are a few Britains sets I got for Christmas and the King & Country set "One Hour After" (LAH201). Those have at least brought some small joy to my toy soldier life. As far as the rest of my collection I'm really tempted to toss it. I know that sounds crazy, but man it's so depressing...

 

[chemiebay]

I think temperatures changes won’t produce those flaking problems unless they are exposed to direct sunlight. Believe me know since here in the south of Spain we reach hell temperatures in the summer time. I think the bubble plastics doesn’t affect either. In my opinion the cause of the flaking is the humidity caused by sealing the plastic bags, remember acrylic paints are water based.

 

[Alex]

dry acrylic paint is elastic (contrary to oil paint) and will resist to bending or expansion of the substrate much better than oil paint. However, acrylic paint is porous and get easily contaminated by airborne particules. that's why figures should be kept behind glass. Moreover, figures should never been kept under direct light because of harmful UV radiations.

As I said earlier, with figures which were never held roughly like yours, the main reason for this flaking is bad surface preparation. Same thing for cars.

By the way, the varnish thing might work for some time since you are adding another wrapping layer to the figure but at one point in time or another, the paint and varnish will flake as well in big chunks.

I think temperatures changes won’t produce those flaking problems unless they are exposed to direct sunlight. Believe me know since here in the south of Spain we reach hell temperatures in the summer time. I think the bubble plastics doesn’t affect either. In my opinion the cause of the flaking is the humidity caused by sealing the plastic bags, remember acrylic paints are water based.

 

[katana]

I consider it very possible that an elastomer in the bubble bags may be the cause of the paint flaking. The figure would be in direct contact with the plastic film. Do any of your figures not enclosed in bubble bags show paint flaking? Don't toss your figures, lots of collectors would be happy to buy them and repaint them.

Hello all,

Sorry for not giving any updates on my situation with my toy soldier collection as I've not been posting at all on here recently. I have exchanged several emails with Matt and he did offer to lend some help in the matter. I have not taken him up on it yet and who knows if I will. I do appreciate Matt though for taking time to exchange emails with me as he's a great guy. Truth of the matter is I have been kind of turned off to collecting any further due to this paint flaking issue I discovered on my First Legion and King & Country figures. I have moved my collection out of my spare bedroom to my main room. They are mostly all still wrapped in bubble bags and kept in plastic storage totes. I have not inspected every single figure, but have found a lot experiencing paint flaking to some degree. If it's not visible then the paint can easily be chipped off with slight pressure from your fingernail. I find it really hard to believe that the slight changes in the temperature in my spare bedroom caused all this. Maybe it's some kind of chemical from the bubble bags...who knows...

I have posted a picture below of one of my King & Country ACW figures. You can see the paint flaking on his hat which can easily be spread. I have also posted a picture of the bubble bags I used for most of my collection. The only sets I have that were not exposed to the temperature in my spare bedroom or the bubble bags are a few Britains sets I got for Christmas and the King & Country set "One Hour After" (LAH201). Those have at least brought some small joy to my toy soldier life. As far as the rest of my collection I'm really tempted to toss it. I know that sounds crazy, but man it's so depressing...

View attachment 227993

View attachment 227994

 

[chemiebay]

dry acrylic paint is elastic (contrary to oil paint) and will resist to bending or expansion of the substrate much better than oil paint. However, acrylic paint is porous and get easily contaminated by airborne particules. that's why figures should be kept behind glass. Moreover, figures should never been kept under direct light because of harmful UV radiations.

As I said earlier, with figures which were never held roughly like yours, the main reason for this flaking is bad surface preparation. Same thing for cars.

By the way, the varnish thing might work for some time since you are adding another wrapping layer to the figure but at one point in time or another, the paint and varnish will flake as well in big chunks.

So, was Lo1863 the only member who bought figures with bad surface preparation, from different themes? and different brands?...{sm2}

 

[Lo1863]

I consider it very possible that an elastomer in the bubble bags may be the cause of the paint flaking. The figure would be in direct contact with the plastic film. Do any of your figures not enclosed in bubble bags show paint flaking? Don't toss your figures, lots of collectors would be happy to buy them and repaint them.

All of my Iron Brigade figures were stored in their original boxes because of their fragile rifles and bayonets. I then had them stored in your typical plastic storage totes that everyone uses. I only put figures with fragile parts like that back into their original boxes. I used the bubble bags for the vast majority of my collection and placed them in plastic storage totes.

And as far as tossing my collection goes I would be interested in offers. Not every figure shows signs of flaking. In fact most don't, but something tells me they have been exposed to the problem. I've been considering going in a different direction with my collecting anyway, but this is not how I wanted it to turn out.

 

[Poppo]

All of my Iron Brigade figures were stored in their original boxes because of their fragile rifles and bayonets. I then had them stored in your typical plastic storage totes that everyone uses. I only put figures with fragile parts like that back into their original boxes. I used the bubble bags for the vast majority of my collection and placed them in plastic storage totes.

And as far as tossing my collection goes I would be interested in offers. Not every figure shows signs of flaking. In fact most don't, but something tells me they have been exposed to the problem. I've been considering going in a different direction with my collecting anyway, but this is not how I wanted it to turn out.

I very well understand your disappointment,but in my opinion you don't have the right view on this. Toysoldiers are expensive but they are not an investment. Some people buy and sell them but we collectors don't have to consider them like an economic value, even if we spend money to buy them. Unfortunately, we are living in an extremely materialistic world, and if we don't wake up our mind, we also belive in the illusion of money. If our soldiers get some flakings with the time, or they fall down, we have to accept it, and enjoy them as they are. All is changing all the time, and we still enyoy our collections, dioramas, even if they are not as we wish...So, the real point is not about solving a material problem ( like the temperature in the room and so on), but in accepting that everything can change any moment and accept this change. I hope you see what I mean

 

[jazzeum]

Can you send me one of your figures so I can have it looked at by an expert? You have my email address.