Panzer I ausf F WS108 question (1 Viewer)

[PanzerArm]

Gentlemen,

Do any of you own the Panzer I ausf F WS108? The reason I ask is that I recently sold one on ebay and I have come across a problem with the buyer. He received the package with the tank yesterday, and I messaged him today to ask him if he received it and to leave me feedback. Well he messaged back and said that he did indeed receive the package, but that the turret hatch had broken off. Now I pack things very well; for example, I sold a M24 Chaffee at the same time and its buyer left the following feedback: "Fast shipping. Well packaged. Just as described HIGHLY RECOMMEND!!"

So my question is, how likely is it this buyer is telling me the truth. I mean that hatch was a static hatch and it was nearly closed. So, IMO, short of prying at it with a screwdriver it should not have come off. It definitely should not have come off as well as I packed it, and the buyer even said the package itself was not damaged. Anyone ever broke one of these off by accident and could maybe shed some light on the matter? Any input is appreciated.


-Kevin

 

[GJB22]

Just curious, was it packed in the original KC box?

 

[RedBaron]

Gentlemen,

Do any of you own the Panzer I ausf F WS108? The reason I ask is that I recently sold one on ebay and I have come across a problem with the buyer. He received the package with the tank yesterday, and I messaged him today to ask him if he received it and to leave me feedback. Well he messaged back and said that he did indeed receive the package, but that the turret hatch had broken off. Now I pack things very well; for example, I sold a M24 Chaffee at the same time and its buyer left the following feedback: "Fast shipping. Well packaged. Just as described HIGHLY RECOMMEND!!"

So my question is, how likely is it this buyer is telling me the truth. I mean that hatch was a static hatch and it was nearly closed. So, IMO, short of prying at it with a screwdriver it should not have come off. It definitely should not have come off as well as I packed it, and the buyer even said the package itself was not damaged. Anyone ever broke one of these off by accident and could maybe shed some light on the matter? Any input is appreciated.


-Kevin

I know this may not be any help with your situation but over the last couple of years of selling on eBay I have come to learn that it doesn't matter if the buyer is telling the truth or not. He can easily have a broken piece at home and switch it with the piece you sold him and say that it arrived broken. eBay will side with the buyer ALL THE TIME. The sellers no longer have any say in the matter. You should expect to be giving this person a refund.

 

[wayne556517]

Gentlemen,

Do any of you own the Panzer I ausf F WS108? The reason I ask is that I recently sold one on ebay and I have come across a problem with the buyer. He received the package with the tank yesterday, and I messaged him today to ask him if he received it and to leave me feedback. Well he messaged back and said that he did indeed receive the package, but that the turret hatch had broken off. Now I pack things very well; for example, I sold a M24 Chaffee at the same time and its buyer left the following feedback: "Fast shipping. Well packaged. Just as described HIGHLY RECOMMEND!!"

So my question is, how likely is it this buyer is telling me the truth. I mean that hatch was a static hatch and it was nearly closed. So, IMO, short of prying at it with a screwdriver it should not have come off. It definitely should not have come off as well as I packed it, and the buyer even said the package itself was not damaged. Anyone ever broke one of these off by accident and could maybe shed some light on the matter? Any input is appreciated.


-Kevin

Hi Kevin i find it hard to believe it "BROKE" in shipping,mine has gone from K+C Hong Kong to Treefrog in the USA then to here in Australia damage free so im with you i find it hard to believe its broken.Have you asked him for a pic of the damage???

 

[PanzerArm]

To answer some of your questions:

No, I did not ship it in the orininal box as I no longer have it. My method of shipping was to take a 4x5x9 box and line the complete intereior with large bubbled bubble wrap. Following that I seperated the turret from the chassis and then wrapped the chassis in small bubbled bubble wrap. I then wrapped the turret in the same fashion. I then placed the two pieces in the box and fitted them to the space in the box. After that I filled "excess" space with loose filling material, but as I recall, not much was needed.

Another answer, yes I did ask for pictures. RedBaron mentioned that it could just be a one-for-one swap job I am definitely concerned that might be the case. Fortunately I am prepared to issue a refund if necessary because I purchased postal insurance. And to think I almost didn't buy it.


-Kevin

 

[Vezzolf]

To answer some of your questions:

No, I did not ship it in the orininal box as I no longer have it. My method of shipping was to take a 4x5x9 box and line the complete intereior with large bubbled bubble wrap. Following that I seperated the turret from the chassis and then wrapped the chassis in small bubbled bubble wrap. I then wrapped the turret in the same fashion. I then placed the two pieces in the box and fitted them to the space in the box. After that I filled "excess" space with loose filling material, but as I recall, not much was needed.

Another answer, yes I did ask for pictures. RedBaron mentioned that it could just be a one-for-one swap job I am definitely concerned that might be the case. Fortunately I am prepared to issue a refund if necessary because I purchased postal insurance. And to think I almost didn't buy it.


-Kevin

If it did not break as a result of damage in shipping it is unethical to have the US Postal Service pay for something they did NOT CAUSE...That's simply WRONG insurance or not.....

 

[PanzerArm]

Unfortunately, how it was broken is an unknown quantity. Besides hunches I really know very little besides the state it was in when it left my possession, and how well I packed it (I left out the "FRAGILE, HANDLE WITH CARE" stickers I put on the sides btw). If you think it is wrong for the USPS to take the hit, and right for me to take the loss when it was not damaged by me you are loco. There are only two possible causes here, the USPS or the buyer.

If it was intact when packaged by me and taken to the post ofice, and if the buyer is telling the truth and it was broken when he received it, then there is no other explaination for its breakage than that it was damaged while in USPS possession. I have the ebay photos to show that it was not broken while in my possession, and I am awaiting photos from the buyer to show the damage. I will then be filing a claim with the USPS for the $90 of insurance I bought for the item. I still am not sure whether the buyer is telling the truth or not, but that is outside of my capacity to prove unfortunately, and will be left to the USPS to rectify. Unless the buyer admits to something devious, which does not seem very likely.


-Kevin

 

[Phantom Warrior]

I have received many packages of polystone AFVs , and while they are well made, sturdy, and well packaged, I have received damaged ones. Most of he few that were damaged were parts that didn't seem like they should break. They were all clean breaks easily glued back into place.

I suspect an internal flaw in the polystone or a shock transmitted through the package from normal handling can get a part to break - even a part that doesn't seem to be subject to breakage

If you shipped it in good condition and if you packed it well, when the buyer sends you the photos you can offer a price reduction and claim the loss from USPS or just refund the money and claim the full amount from USPS. As long as you took care, you have the right to claim the insurance - that's what it is for. It's not your job to police the buyer or USPS handling.

Terry

 

[Mitch]

Well said. I am not naive but, it seems the postal service is paying compensation when things may not be their fault and rather than unethical its criminal. I was shocked at the post which said the person may have swapped a broken set for the posted good one. I would have never thought of doing such a thing. its a bit sad IMO just be a bit more honest (not that I am saying anyone here is not being honest)
Mitch

If it did not break as a result of damage in shipping it is unethical to have the US Postal Service pay for something they did NOT CAUSE...That's simply WRONG insurance or not.....

 

[Vezzolf]

I agree Mitch...Someone is being dishonest here (in this case the buyer).....If there was no damage to the box exterior and the seller packed the item very carefully as was stated..Then the buyer is "clearly switching" the item....and the seller is playing along with the deception....It is wrong to blame it on the USPS and place a fraudulent claim... And although NOT the case here; some unscrupulous sellers may employ these methods to try to sell off defective items to buyers and then re-coop money from the insurance....VERY SAD INDEED

 

[Wraith]

If it did not break as a result of damage in shipping it is unethical to have the US Postal Service pay for something they did NOT CAUSE...That's simply WRONG insurance or not.....

Well said. I am not naive but, it seems the postal service is paying compensation when things may not be their fault and rather than unethical its criminal. I was shocked at the post which said the person may have swapped a broken set for the posted good one. I would have never thought of doing such a thing. its a bit sad IMO just be a bit more honest (not that I am saying anyone here is not being honest)
Mitch

I agree Mitch...Someone is being dishonest here (in this case the buyer).....If there was no damage to the box exterior and the seller packed the item very carefully as was stated..Then the buyer is "clearly switching" the item....and the seller is playing along with the deception....It is wrong to blame it on the USPS and place a fraudulent claim... And although NOT the case here; some unscrupulous sellers may employ these methods to try to sell off defective items to buyers and then re-coop money from the insurance....VERY SAD INDEED

Errrrr, Gents,
Before we string Kevin up for conspiricy to deceive, perhaps a quick review of the evidence in the case might be in order?

There is nothing other than idle speculation to suggest that the buyer has committed some henious act by switching a pre owned and damaged turret with the new one.

As for 'clearly switching the item', well not clear actually. In fact the defence would point you in the direction of any number of other K&C pieces which will have arrived in an unmarked box, but broken. As has been said, we are dealing with polystone here which isn't the toughest material known to mankind.

Kevin,
My advice mirrors yours and would be that unless there is something to suggest a 'switch', that you claim under the insurance that you paid for.

Simon

 

[PanzerArm]

I agree Mitch...Someone is being dishonest here (in this case the buyer).....If there was no damage to the box exterior and the seller packed the item very carefully as was stated..Then the buyer is "clearly switching" the item....and the seller is playing along with the deception....It is wrong to blame it on the USPS and place a fraudulent claim... And although NOT the case here; some unscrupulous sellers may employ these methods to try to sell off defective items to buyers and then re-coop money from the insurance....VERY SAD INDEED

I wouldn't say that I am playing along with the deception...

If I was doing that I don't think I would have started this thread:tongue:

If anything I am trying not to, but there is little else to be done. I smelled a rat from the time he sent me the email claiming the hatch was broken, and I thought I'd come here to see what everyone thought about the situation. There just seems to be little else to do on my part other than use the insurance I paid for. If you think on it there are really only 3 courses of action:

1) I refund the guy for the sake of positive feedback, based on the unlikely fact that the item was broke in shipping, and then use the insurance I paid USPS for to recoup the money.

2) Assume that he is lying to me based on our theories, refuse to refund the money, probably have a claim made against me, and probably receive negative feedback.

3) Leave the cause of the breakage a mystery and refund him the money without making a USPS insurance claim based on uncertain ethical pretenses. Saying that the buyer claims that he didn't do it and that the package didn't appear damaged(implied USPS innocence), and yet somehow the item was broken, I guess I am to take the double hit of paying for the insurance and not using it, and refunding the guy the money.


Based on my assessment, the first option is the way that everything is done as it should be to the greatest degree. There is no assumption of guilt on the part of the buyer (because I can never actually prove he is lying and broke it), and there is no negative impact on me (feedback or monetarily). The only down side is that the USPS is having to fork over the money for a reimbursement service I paid for, without absolute certainty it was caused by them. The fact of whether or not it was damaged in their possession or not is mostly a moot point saying that as an entity it cannot state that the damage was not done while in their care. I am the only one that can prove that the items were not damaged in my care based on photographic evidence. The other two parties, the buyer and the USPS probably cannot do that, and since the buyer is claiming that they were broke when they arrived, that really only leaves one cause, USPS handling, despite the state of the box.

I am still awaiting a reply from the buyer, or an email with pictures, so that I can assess this situation a little further. If I don't receive a response soon I think that is even more of a testament to his dishonesty as then I would feel it isn't actually broken but that he is merely stating that so that I would refund him the money. I really wish K&C were serial numbered (like Figarti) so that way I would have him prove that it was mine. Even so all he would have to do is switch the turret so i guess even that wouldn't work.

This has really become quite complicated...


-Kevin

 

[GJB22]

It's good that you purchased insurance, and I think you should use it, that's what it's for. However, in the future I would save the KC box if you plan on selling the item one day. First because many collectors prefer to have the box and the piece is worth more money. Second because KC ships their products world-wide and for the most part have a clean record when it comes to damage. My opinion is that if the post office isn't responsible, then you sold to a dishonest collector. Perhaps he saw your custom packaging, had a broken duplicate, and figured he could make a believable false claim. Turns out, he was right, there's no way to disprove his claim and you're gonna have to refund him his money.