Pricing, where's your limit?? (1 Viewer)

PanzerAce1944 said:
True, This is a general topic of discussion. No need to isolate any one particular maker. ^&cool
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I have to disagree with this.

I know I’ve been singing K&C’s praises here, but Britain’s and Collectors Showcase have been doing a pretty fair job of keeping their prices in check. It seems that the pricing question is becoming more & more of a K&C issue.

The immediate question that comes to my mind is what exactly is causing their prices to rise so high when Britain’s and CS have been able to maintain there price at around $30 or less per foot figure? Especially considering that there isn’t that much of a difference in quality. Plus, they all basically have the same manufacturing process. They all pay about the same for material, labor, freight. I find it hard to believe that K&C's development costs are any higher.

K&C’s painting might be a bit more consistent, but Britain’s sculpting & historical accuracy is definitely better. None of them even approach FL on painting. So again, why the huge disparity?
 
Was curious how much things increased in the last 5 years so did a quick snapshot:

2007/06 - DD085 - $25.00
2008/06 - CW030 - $29.00 [16% increase]
2009/06 - NA178 - $32.00 [10% increase]
2010/06 - CW067 - $32.00
2011/06 - DD150 - $37.00 [16% increase]
2012/06 - DD173 - $42.00 [14% increase]

68% increase from 2007-2012 (5-year period)

Based this on an "average" single figure from the same month (no flag bearers or complex figures). Vehicles are a little harder to calculate, as older models typically had more figures with them, while newer have at most one usually. I know my salary didn't increase at this rate, so now I know for sure why I slowed down over the years.
 
PanzeRPK said:
Was curious how much things increased in the last 5 years so did a quick snapshot:

2007/06 - DD085 - $25.00
2008/06 - CW030 - $29.00 [16% increase]
2009/06 - NA178 - $32.00 [10% increase]
2010/06 - CW067 - $32.00
2011/06 - DD150 - $37.00 [16% increase]
2012/06 - DD173 - $42.00 [14% increase]

68% increase from 2007-2012 (5-year period)

Based this on an "average" single figure from the same month (no flag bearers or complex figures). Vehicles are a little harder to calculate, as older models typically had more figures with them, while newer have at most one usually. I know my salary didn't increase at this rate, so now I know for sure why I slowed down over the years.
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Maybe K&C remodeled their corporate office and are using that 68% price increase to pay it off. ^&grin:rolleyes2:

Sorry, the previous comment might be the result of some Aussie rubbing off on me.
 
swalterh said:
Maybe K&C remodeled their corporate office and are using that 68% price increase to pay it off. ^&grin:rolleyes2:

Sorry, the previous comment might be the result of some Aussie rubbing off on me.
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Darwin would be pleased to see further support for the theory of evolution!{sm4}{sm4}
 
uksubs said:
Tom can't agree that your getting more for your money or improvement in quality with K&C mate it just the same but more expensive that all but if your happy that all that matters
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Fair enough Neil, i don't agree with you but i appreciate your opinion just the same.

Tom
 
For me, this is a general discussion and, not to defend K&C (heaven forbid people would think the sky had fallen) it seems a bit vague for someone, in fact anyone, to ask about prices and their maximums when they pay more for other figures and AFV's on a regular basis. I have lots of questions regarding pricing but, on the whole pricing is like favourite sets its individual and personal to each collector. Some can afford the sets no matter what the price some cannot. Some have artificial limits they set which, like new years resolutions fall by the wayside once they see a set which is above what they stated they would not pay. Others say its too much and move on to other things without weakening.

I am not going to print lots of comparison prices but, here are two of the other manufacturers prices just for fairness

FL...

3 Figures $172.50

Motorcycle combo $249.50 DAK ($229.50 if you want it grey apologies if your a DAK collector you pay more for yellow paint?????)

Half track $359

Howitzer $359.95

1 figure (average) $59.95 but, some are $64.95 and some are more

2 figures $129.95

Blitz 299.95

T-34 $299.95

And the list could go on and on. My questions here are when will this be a problem for FL collectors and, on the whole if one can afford these prices. why are we concerned when we buy from another manufacturer whose prices are lower for the ranges mentioned? I would have thought a cheaper brand would have been welcomed. One other question I have not had an answer for is how can FL charge the same price for a Blitz truck and a Panzer III tank and, have all other AFV's at the same price except for the new half track which, is $359??

Its not a dig but, they are either woefully overpriced or, very cheap to make if they can all be priced at the same point. I also don't understand the disparity in yellow and grey colours?

Anyway general points that I would like to hear about the reasoning

I also have not equated the prices to GBP or, many of you chaps would have some coronary issues!!!LOL

Figarti...

Tiger I $269 ( $259 grey lucky again if you like grey and not dunkelgelb or yellow)

Panzer IV $249

Flak 88 $269

4 figures $119

3 figures $99

Howitzer $ 249

again the list could go on but, you get what I mean.

My final point is how come these threads are never on Figarti or the FL site?? Their prices are either rather similar or, extremely over the top compared to K&C?? I don't know the answer myself so, please if anyone knows I would like to know. Its as valid a point as to when collectors of these ranges will call it a day with the prices as it is for K&C.

The point I made earlier about price being similar to what sets people prefer is important. my limit or line is do I feel that the quality and price make me feel I am getting value for my hard earned money if the answer is yes then its at Mitch manor if not!!!

Mitch
 
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mitch, if you feel the need to start a pricing thread on the other manufacturers then please do it, as you have said 2-3 times in this thread already, I have my reasons for starting this thread in the K&C section,(being a small collector of K&C) as you state constantly this is a open forum for all discussions, I think I'm allowed to post a thread where I choose as long as it's in the boundaries of the forum rules, and if it bothers you that much don't read it, actually I asked the forum mods to move the thread to general discussion earlier, so no major conspiracy here mich...Sammy
 
sammy719 said:
mitch, if you feel the need to start a pricing thread on the other manufacturers then please do it, as you have said 2-3 times in this thread already, I have my reasons for starting this thread in the K&C section,(being a small collector of K&C) as you state constantly this is a open forum for all discussions, I think I'm allowed to post a thread where I choose as long as it's in the boundaries of the forum rules, and if it bothers you that much don't read it, actually I asked the forum mods to move the thread to general discussion earlier, so no major conspiracy here mich...Sammy
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Although I follow Mitch and truly respect his postings I agree with Sammy that this is the place where pricing limits should start. A 58% jump in price in five years in unbelieveable. I guess that is why I have cut my purchases of K&C by 80%. If everyoner is like me the stockpile must be building up in dealers warehouses. Regards, Larry.
 
If I may be so bold, but there are other issues going on between Mitch and Sammy, other than whether this thread is in the proper section of the Forum :wink2:
 
When I first saw this thread I thought oh no here we go again :rolleyes: but it has moved in some interesting directions. I agree this is probably a general TS discussion because ALL manufacturers prices have increased way faster than inflation and people's salaries much to my chagrin. :redface2: K&C numerous times have made it clear that they are constantly on the hunt for more affordable places to manufacture but quality and cost equations don't add up so playing armchair TS company owner is fine but I don't think many of us truly appreciate the difficulties of moving manufacturing to a far flung place! As far as price limits I tend to have more of an annual budget than a particular price for individual items.

Disclaimer: Most of my purchases are K&C with a smattering of JJD and FL.
 
This is a general trend, and a valid discussion. For comparison sake with First Legion:

2007 - NAP0004 - $34.95
2012 - NAP0332 - $54.95

57% increase 2007-2012 (5-year period)

Again, these are similar figures in same/similar lines within a single manufacturer. Comparisons between companies is comparing apples to oranges. Each has their own style (artistic vs. realistic, toy soldier vs. military miniature), and can be appreciated on their own merits. I collect at least 5 different manufacturers, and appreciate them all. Due to the increases in the industry in general I just don't buy as much now, unfortunately.
 
PanzeRPK said:
This is a general trend, and a valid discussion. For comparison sake with First Legion:

2007 - NAP0004 - $34.95
2012 - NAP0332 - $54.95

57% increase 2007-2012 (5-year period)

Again, these are similar figures in same/similar lines within a single manufacturer. Comparisons between companies is comparing apples to oranges. Each has their own style (artistic vs. realistic, toy soldier vs. military miniature), and can be appreciated on their own merits. I collect at least 5 different manufacturers, and appreciate them all. Due to the increases in the industry in general I just don't buy as much now, unfortunately.
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I agree that each company has its own characteristics and commitment to depicting realism. FL IMO is leading the pack in regards to commitment in the military miniatures category. K&C is very stylized with the black outlining. WBritain's seems like they can't decide which way they want to go. They have some of the best sculpting, but then one of the lesser paint schemes.
 
Cyber Field Marshall said:
When I first saw this thread I thought oh no here we go again :rolleyes: but it has moved in some interesting directions. I agree this is probably a general TS discussion because ALL manufacturers prices have increased way faster than inflation and people's salaries much to my chagrin. :redface2: K&C numerous times have made it clear that they are constantly on the hunt for more affordable places to manufacture but quality and cost equations don't add up so playing armchair TS company owner is fine but I don't think many of us truly appreciate the difficulties of moving manufacturing to a far flung place! As far as price limits I tend to have more of an annual budget than a particular price for individual items.

Disclaimer: Most of my purchases are K&C with a smattering of JJD and FL.
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Derisive remarks can only serve to inflame the situation. It would be far better to offer constructive commentary in support of your own points instead of seeking to ridicule members who may happen to disagree with your views.

Speaking as someone who is a business owner, and has been involved in major acquisitions and moving a sizable manufacturing facility, I would opine that the commentary on this thread is a very valid discussion containing valuable topics and perspectives that are pertinent to the industry.

The fact is that WBritain’s and CS have kept their prices down. It seems you are insinuating that for some reason these two firms posses some form of competitive advantage in their manufacturing operations and that’s why their prices are lower. I find that difficult to believe as the basic Far East formula is very similar no matter where the parent firm (i.e. Britains, K&C, CS, etc…) elects to contract manufacture.
 
Mitch

Very good point

I am (was) a heavy FL collector (and KC before that). I have not bought any FL sets in a while.

Many reasons to this including a steep rise in price of FL figures, some differences in quality between and within ranges, falling interest for chinese made figures and a raising interest in one of a kind pieces.

So yes that same thing that is bugging KC collectors has bugged me with FL figures.

And it's not the price itself that is bugging me with all chinese made figures.

I pay these days a minimum of 100$ for each foot soldier and 350$ for each calvalry guy but in my mind, I get better value for my money.

Maybe I'm sick, but I'm happy !
 
Brad...

Absolutely wrong. I would have responded exactly the same whomever had posted this thread its just that its derived from a person who really collects FL rather than K&C which, is more expensive than K&C on almost every front. so, without any ulterior motive I responded. How can we have a discussion about rising costs and prices and only take one manufacturer in to consideration?? We cannot and, as other manufacturers have expensive sets as a norm then all should be discussed and, as one mod has already stated it would have been better in the general discussion part and, a few other posters it has no bearing what you allude to

CFM...

I think your right comments about the cost that are made are made without any knowledge of a manufacturers outlay and, overheads the only thing I hear from collectors etc is fine, if prices have gone up then the TS will go up but, the only negative thing I can say about K&C in this discussion is they seem to go up monthly!!

Swalterh...

I think you will find that FL also have bold black lines on a number of their figures so, if we are to go down the line of discussing the merits and demerits in terms of painting then I am all for it. All manufacturers do some good work and some poor work and FL is not immune to this

Mitch

jazzeum said:
If I may be so bold, but there are other issues going on between Mitch and Sammy, other than whether this thread is in the proper section of the Forum :wink2:
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Mitch,

Please. You know there are other issues going on here, plus Sammy did collect K & C and still has an interest in them.

Moreover, how many times can we or do we need a discussion about prices, which, in any event, seems to have strayed from Sammy's original question.

However, I'm sure you'll argue otherwise, as is your want.

Brad
 
Just spent the last 10 minutes reading the mixed comments made on this topic. I would have to strongly disagree with the comments made about K&C quality and detail has not improved over the years, as it really has.
We all remember the info released 2 years back by K&C informing us of the impending price increases due to rising costs on their end, materials,labor, etc. Surely as collectors we are all consumers and the general consumer always
wants to pay the least amount for any given product or service. I would tend to also agree that one can mentally set a price limit for what they would pay for something new that comes out by whatever brand , but if it is really eye appealing
and turns up on your own personal want list doesn't that burden of paying a few extra dollars fall off by the wayside if it is something that "YOU" really like ?
This topic of discussion is a good one but seems more fairly suited in another location of the forum as I can rattle off a list of brands whose prices are considerably higher than those of this brand back under the micro scope again.
At the end of the day we all will buy what we individually like and can afford from whomever that may be ! On that note...................See you all at the Texas Show in May ^&grin
 
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