Production cutbacks (5 Viewers)

[Phantom Warrior]

very interesting terry, i tend to agree with you. But all this will do one thing for me. I am a completionist that is fast running out of room and money and this will absolutley break me of that habit. Now if this ends up making me lose interest like happened with the sports card industry than so be it. I will get a pair of glasses and go back to painting 20mm figures and tanks. I do think it will help prop up resale prices though, which regardless of what people say is a big part of collecting kc

When I started collecting, my plan was to get one good example of every AFV that K&C produced. There weren't that many each month. It was easy. Then Figarti, CS and eventually FL started producing armour and the pace of new AFVs really increased - so did prices. I had to cut back expectations of what I could collect and choose to keep pieces I really liked and sell off ones I didn'tlike as much. I've gotten used to it. Some people are completionists and some never sell anything - I don't know how they do it.

Terry

 

[wayne556517]

Ive got it "ANDY" is retiring and going for one last splurge on sales to get a heap of cash,flog the business grab the misses and shoot off to the Caribbean to sip cocktails and live happily ever after!!What a great plan i could join him (not in the Caribbean, but retirement...^&grin) but I'm to busy chasing TS around and blowing my money on his retirement fund,like Jules said "The sky isn't falling in'like the big changes to the forum set-up i hate this i hate that now we are use to it no drama,s same here as we have no choice i can't see Andy going "i better not change things the blokes on the forum ain't happy"i reckon he know,s what he is doing that,s why his business has been around for so long.

 

[glossman]

I think this sentence in the K&C statement in the recent April 2011 dispatch about sums it up:

"..........we have to reduce the quantities of what we can produce in order that we can keep the broad spectrum of monthly releases that is a hallmark of K&C. "

As stated by other forum members, some of the key issues faced by K&C include increased labour/production costs in China, warehousing charges and dealers' unsold inventory.

From a collector's viewpoint, it means pre-order/buy what you like as soon as K&C announces release or pay dearly on the secondary market.

IMHO, Raymond

 

[The Military Workshop]

Interesting thread.

I am not sure I understand Mitch's point about "looking elsewhere where there is less ''pressure'. If we look at other brands (ie, FL, TG and CS) I think most would agree numbers produced would be much less than K&C even with reduced production. If "pressure" is caused by not having products around for a longer period then there is clearly a contradiction. Any brand would love to have an instant sell out of an item. In that case the brand would be very happy but those who did not make the decision to buy would miss out. Does this mean the brand has let down those collectors ? I think not.

Totally agree with Michael's comments at 31.

Regarding warehousing you just need to look at the recent large boxes. Diorama items such as the 7 Desert Village items, 2 different Nissan huts, Church, various Aircraft, AK Tower, New French building, all of which have been released in the last two years but take up huge space compared to figures (and add just retired LAH 82 and 83). I suspect space is a major issue in the K&C warehouse because of them. Space costs money so I would not expect larger dio items to be around a long time. For example how many single figures can be stored in the space of the Desert Tower piece and what is the dollar value of the tower compared to those figures ? If you then add to that the sheer number of vehicle and figure items the K&C brand has far greater warehousing costs than any other brand.

Some have commented on production numbers. Over the years I have observed many figure items where there have clearly been multiple runs (ie. the NA Black Watch). A number of items that sold out prior to Xmas have been re-run recently. Obviously the last run would cost more than the first. For vehicles I don't recall ordering a vehicle and finding it temporarily sold out, suggesting another run. The exception might be the Wittman Tiger which I understand sold 2,000 in its lifetime. This suggests K&C does vehicles in one run but will re-run figures if the demand is there. Now the choice, with limited production, seems to be produce 1,000 vehicles of one item or 500 of two. Obviously the second option will sell out 1,000 vehicles quicker.

Regarding 250 series note it is the same vehicle painted in usually 3 versions which equates to 750 quick sales for K&C. Good for K&C and good for collectors who can get items in markings that are not viable in larger numbers. CS does a similar thing with two versions of a vehicle as does TG with their products.

Some have commented this announcement is a "marketing strategy". Would those who think that way prefer K&C had not mentioned this at all but found items they were
interested in retiring much faster than they were expecting and being caught out ?. Then they would be able to complain when they appeared on the retirement list.

Regarding retirements my comment is that in the past few years K&C has regularly brought out a similar amount of new items but the number of retirements has been far lower. This suggests to me K&C has held large quantities of stock so that dealers / collectors have more choice. That is money sitting in their warehouse. It could not continue and the large number of retirements this month could hardly be a surprise when you consider how few have been retired in previous months.

Some seem to have missed the point that this has been brought on by a labour shortage in China. John Jenkins was mentioning similar things to me a year ago (I have been reading stories about China production problems in various industries for quite a while). In a recent conversation with Andy he also mentioned the tsunami / earthquake in Japan had resulted in Japanese companies setting up new production in China and requiring workers. He also mentioned that traditionally after Chinese New Year 15% of the workers (in the factories he uses - but probably a national trend ) would not return each year. This year he said it was 40%. I am guessing this is not just a K&C problem. As Andy has indicated K&C will still bring out the same variety each month but there will be less produced. He has advised us of the situation so if you think it a "strategy" so be it.

One thing is clear from this thread and that is that K&C can never do the right thing for everybody. Some want items never to retire but would also probably be horrified to think that storage space and sitting on that stock might cost money and thereby affect pricing. Others seem to complain there is too much choice, and not enough time to buy, making their buying and budget decisions difficult. Others gripe that their particular area of collecting has been neglected and demand their requirements be met. K&C has more variety and quantity of product available than any brand and the average life span has been higher than other brands. Seems a lot of people do not realise this or give K&C credit for it.

Just my thoughts.

Regards
Brett

 

[Rob]

Some very good points there Brett.As I said earlier ,when you look at the size of some of the boxes coming through size has to be an issue, especially with as you say the buildings and aircraft etc. I know just from my collection how much room they take up. I think this maybe the reason the new Jagdtiger although a huge beast comes in a smaller box than you might expect compared to say the last King Tiger.

I also agree with you re the announcement itself. It's as a friend said to me yesterday, ' ****ed if you do, ****ed if you don't '. There would have been uproar if there had been no word of why this has happened, with charges of ' K&C not caring about it's customers ' flying about. Andy has had the courtesy and consideration to tell us what's happening so we at least have a chance to get some of the things we are after.

There will always be some who cry conspiracy, but for me this is above board common sense policy designed to keep the regular flow of new products arriving every month , month in month out. And whilst I may miss a few sets I would like to have had, it's much more important to me that the quality products keeps on coming and my collection can grow as I want it to.

Rob

 

[jules118]

.... There would have been uproar if there had been no word of why this has happened, with charges of ' K&C not caring about it's customers ' flying about. Andy has had the courtesy and consideration to tell us what's happening so we at least have a chance to get some of the things we are after.

There will always be some who cry conspiracy, but for me this is above board common sense policy designed to keep the regular flow of new products arriving every month , month in month out. And whilst I may miss a few sets I would like to have had, it's much more important to me that the quality products keeps on coming and my collection can grow as I want it to.

Rob

If nothing was said, then I suspect it would have been business as usual with some chatter and lamenting about 'early' retirements as they happened.

Mentioning that this is likely to be the case because items are not going to be made in the quantities they may have been in the past (without giving stats for either old or new) can be an encouragement for collectors to buy earlier than what they otherwise may have done...ie a marketing strategy.

Anybody who thinks takes the leap from that to it being some sort of evil conspiracy is reading into things way too much. A business wants it's clients to buy it's product and sooner rather than later. That's life. Time to get a grip, walk outside and look up, methinks.

Yep, as I said in my earlier post, the sky is not falling in. A storm in a teacup.

jules

And no, I am not expecting or think that K&C needs to release it's production figures... so don't read that into what I'm saying please.

 

[Rob]

Jules, I think some people for whatever reason have their own issues with K&C and for that reason and instead of looking at the evidence or taking someone at their word jump to think the worse of everything K&C do. When it comes down to it, we all knew these items would be going, and now its just about choosing what we really have to get. As you said the sky is not falling in. If my only problem is choosing between A and B before they retire, well I doubt those who've just lost everything in Japan would consider that a real problem do you?.:wink2:

Rob

 

[VIRIATO]

Ohhhh the beauty of the cottage TS brands does come to mind


Paulo

 

[jules118]

Jules, I think some people for whatever reason have their own issues with K&C and for that reason and instead of looking at the evidence or taking someone at their word jump to think the worse of everything K&C do. When it comes down to it, we all knew these items would be going, and now its just about choosing what we really have to get. As you said the sky is not falling in. If my only problem is choosing between A and B before they retire, well I doubt those who've just lost everything in Japan would consider that a real problem do you?.:wink2:

Rob

Exactly mate... exactly!

jules

 

[Hadrian]

As a dealer I am in the same boat with the producers.
"fast business is good business" !
Customers often fear to miss a limited item and prefer to buy/order first limited items and wait to buy regarding "normal" items.
This is in my opinion one (of sveral) reason, why smaller companies like TGM or CS won turnover on the TS market.
So I can totally understand, that K&C turns a bit to more limited upcomings and to more items, which will no longer be available for years.
Just my point of view.

 

[maddadicus]

Ohhhh the beauty of the cottage TS brands does come to mind


Paulo

And where are they? Fortunately for me, most of my collection are still made by one man companies, until those men no longer can. I am still mostly a glossy man and can still find plenty of them at fair prices. I only take issue that some come here just to gripe at one mfg. ,while kissing the butt of every other mfg. Michael

 

[Northgate Woods]

I only take issue that some come here just to gripe at one mfg. ,while kissing the butt of every other mfg. Michael

Michael mate,
Thank you cobber. You hit the nail right squarely on the head.
Cheers Howard

 

[lancer]

Michael mate,
Thank you cobber. You hit the nail right squarely on the head.
Cheers Howard

To the contrary, the King & Country section of the forum is the exact place to criticize, or praise KC. It is inappropriate to criticize other makers in the KC section just as it is wrong to praise other makers in the KC section. If an individual doesn't want to read criticism of their favorite maker, just skip on to something else. A maker that arouses enough interest from the collectors to either praise or criticize is doing their job well. A maker that arouses no interest is not long for business, of any sort. JMO. -- Al

 

[VIRIATO]

Frankly I have no interest at all in criticizing K&C or any other brand, besides who am I to do so? I merely meant to lightly point out that when it comes to Toy Soldiers (as with other things in life...) there are other fine ways besides the big player ways, both have pluses and minuses and to each his own. I hope both go ahead (Little Legion, Imperial, Tommy Atkins or Britains, K&C or First Legion) because great things come from both, preference is just a personal thing and I like them all but unfortunately have to make choices^&grin...

Paulo

 

[lancer]

I find KC product to be the stuff that I buy the most (tied with one other maker). It is remarkable that KC even notifies it's customer base of moves such as this. They deserve kudos for the effort to keep information flowing. Being the biggest and best, KC is going to attract the most attention, positive and negative. It is part of the price KC pays for it's openness. I believe that all the China based makers are struggling with the same problems but only KC is keeping it's collectors informed. No criticism there. My worry, when I started this thread, was that an already hard to keep up with hobby was going to become much harder to keep up with. I don't mean keeping up with everything, just the stuff I want. There is so much great stuff coming out, I, like others, need time to purchase. I was concerned that I would now start missing many more items than I had in the past. I will now have to really scale back on what is bought, with only the priority items being purchased. It was going to come to this anyway as prices keep rising and production gets cut back along with the time to save for a given item. I'll do the best I can until I come to my senses.^&cool -- Al

 

[Wraith]

I've just gone back to re-read the wording in the Dispatches.
It's stating that production is being cut back. It doesn't alude to all future releases being SLs of 250, 500 or whatever in number.
I'd suggest that this would give K&C the flexibility to do more than one production run if an item is an obvious hot potato, without narking off those that would be upset if an item exceeded it's declared production number.

Leaving the rise in material costs, wage increases in China, lack of skilled workers etc, that are all mentioned, aside, bottom line is that there don't appear to be as many buying large quantities of K&C as there were a year ago.
If you review many threads since last summer, there is a lot of talk from collectors stating that they are having to cut back their addiction, due to the recession, lack of funds, lack of space, reprioritising spending habits etc.

If the knock on to this is that there is less selling, then cutting back on production numbers can only be a smart business. If the purchases start picking up again, it only takes a flick of a switch at K&C HQ, and the production numbers can start increasing again (might be oversimplifying that last bit a tad, but....).

Right, off to give the Chancellor some carefully selected hints and tips now. :rolleyes2:

Simon

 

[chasbo]

Hope this won't affect spice production.Without new Sardaukur (or fallschirmjager the next closest thing), how are we to keep up. Regards, Baron Von Charkonen.

 

[lancer]

Hope this won't affect spice production.Without new Sardaukur (or fallschirmjager the next closest thing), how are we to keep up. Regards, Baron Von Charkonen.

My Fedakeen will mop the floor with your Sardaukar. - Muad'dib

 

[PanzerAce1944]

I think in this thread we have heard all possible responses for this topic. A good point mentioned earlier is at least K&C informs all of us ahead of time prior to a major change taking place ! Another legitimate point is many of us K&C collectors voice our desires for what we would like to see in upcoming new releases. With a vast range of eras covered in miniatures, numbers would have to drop to allow other new releases to be released. 1,000 to 2,000 pieces made of each item produced is tough.Right now K&C makes 18 different categories of figures before even touching on WWII. WWII has over 20 different subject areas alone. Now we are talking a combined total of 38 different subject areas in which they produce items for !!!! Hats off to you K&C !!!

 

[Njja]

Well there goes........the old "Sales are Booming" theory.......right out the window!

Seems the current economic situation is also having an impact on the Toy Soldier Marketplace. Who would have thought that?

Let's just hope when things even out the collector still will have a few quality manufactures and dealers to choose from.

I'm certain things will improve in the next year or two.