Quality/Accuracy/Price Triangle (1 Viewer)

[Arnhemjim]

Fellow Forum Membership,
There are several currently active threads which relate to, or are impacted by, this analysis/observation. By starting this thread in politically correct and neutral territory (General Toy Soldier Discussion) I hope I am conveying both a totally impartial and objective intent. Am going to take this opportunity to reintroduce my systems engineering approach to toy soldier collecting. Have previously defined the quality/price/accuracy equation, but not until now as a equilateral triangle. If the triangle is distorted out of equilibrium, i.e. other than three equal sides, the decision to buy becomes in conflict/doubt, i.e. stressed. The single exception being if the quality and/or accuracy are superior to the market price. Obviously inherent in price are an individual's budgetary constraints. If all of this analogy is entirely too esoteric and impractical, you may at least consider revisiting my blog page, which includes several recent additions and refinements; the URL is http://www.arnhemjim.blogspot.com.
Arnhem Jim
Arizona Territory

 

[jazzeum]

No offense but these subjects, particularly price, have been discussed ad infinitum. Do we really need another discussion which is bound to go nowhere, ruffle feathers and lead to deletions?

 

[Mitch]

Brad...

You are very correct that they have been discussed but, they always get spoilt as you say when either the defenders of the faith pile in and scream blue murder or, something equally similar is said.

I think in a mature and restrained manner without all the hysteria these three issues are the most important things affecting the hobby at the moment. I would like to think that regardless we are able to discuss these issues without the need for the usual diatribes and, show others that we are able to discuss openly and honestly any issues in the hobby. Too many of these discussions have ended in mine is better than yours which, does not get to the points which Jim is addressing and would be of interest IMO

Surely, that is the point of forum discussions and, the fact that they are posted and tried to be debated so frequently must show that they are important to many people????
Mitch

 

[DMNamiot]

Hi Jim,

Please elaborate for me on your systematic approach. I know I use the method of dont spend too much or my wife will scream which has sereved me well for many years! But seriously I have a budget and I stick with it and use a fairly selective set of criteria to try and keep my self on the path to continued collecting enjoyment without breaking the bank. So for me the approach is

1. Focus of my collection. Which is as follows:
a. 1903 Delhi Durbar
b. Crimean War
c. Other eras

2. Budget maintenance. Which boils down to not spending over $150 a month and usually a lot less, unless there is an item that I just have to have a for which I will seek permission from my wife. Go ahead and laugh but this keeps her in the loop and me out of the dog house.

3. Simply enjoying the hunt. I spend a lot of time looking at ebay and other auction sites and at flea markets here and in antique shops etc. I do a lot of hunting and enjoy it a great deal when I find something even if I dont buy it. For instance there are a lot of composition soldiers surfacing here now that not too long a ago were kept hidden because of the subject matter. So its really cool to see these things as well as militaria for sale.

So I have to tell you that as much as some of the price increases interest me I dont get to worried about it. Because it is what it is and why get all worked up over something for which you have no control. Save the angst for important things like your baby girl going to her first date...

Dave

 

[maddadicus]

Fellow Forum Membership,
There are several currently active threads which relate to, or are impacted by, this analysis/observation. By starting this thread in politically correct and neutral territory (General Toy Soldier Discussion) I hope I am conveying both a totally impartial and objective intent. Am going to take this opportunity to reintroduce my systems engineering approach to toy soldier collecting. Have previously defined the quality/price/accuracy equation, but not until now as a equilateral triangle. If the triangle is distorted out of equilibrium, i.e. other than three equal sides, the decision to buy becomes in conflict/doubt, i.e. stressed. The single exception being if the quality and/or accuracy are superior to the market price. Obviously inherent in price are an individual's budgetary constraints. If all of this analogy is entirely too esoteric and impractical, you may at least consider revisiting my blog page, which includes several recent additions and refinements; the URL is http://www.arnhemjim.blogspot.com.
Arnhem Jim
Arizona Territory

For myself, minor inaccuracies will not kill a sale of something I want. Gross inaccuracies ,historical impossibility, and unreasonable pricing will keep my money in my wallet. Quality is subjective to me and I reflect on it case by case. I love Mulberry Miniatures, have over 200 figures, but others might say they are crude in their casting and paint styles. I have a number of gloss home cast sets made by individuals, but none would match up in quality to any of the big guys offerings. Uniqueness is more important an attribute than any other to me...Michael

 

[thebritfarmer]

Hi Jim,

Please elaborate for me on your systematic approach. I know I use the method of dont spend too much or my wife will scream which has sereved me well for many years! But seriously I have a budget and I stick with it and use a fairly selective set of criteria to try and keep my self on the path to continued collecting enjoyment without breaking the bank. So for me the approach is

1. Focus of my collection. Which is as follows:
a. 1903 Delhi Durbar
b. Crimean War
c. Other eras

2. Budget maintenance. Which boils down to not spending over $150 a month and usually a lot less, unless there is an item that I just have to have a for which I will seek permission from my wife. Go ahead and laugh but this keeps her in the loop and me out of the dog house.

3. Simply enjoying the hunt. I spend a lot of time looking at ebay and other auction sites and at flea markets here and in antique shops etc. I do a lot of hunting and enjoy it a great deal when I find something even if I dont buy it. For instance there are a lot of composition soldiers surfacing here now that not too long a ago were kept hidden because of the subject matter. So its really cool to see these things as well as militaria for sale.

So I have to tell you that as much as some of the price increases interest me I dont get to worried about it. Because it is what it is and why get all worked up over something for which you have no control. Save the angst for important things like your baby girl going to her first date...

Dave

I have to agree with Dave on this one. Although my focus is WB Zulu wars, WB Durbar then anything WB ceremonial, farm etc....

 

[Mitch]

Michael...

I am interested in what you consider to be a minor innacuracy or a major one. I really like this hobby but, and I am sure it annoys some folks but, for me, getting the wrong unit markings (manufacturers are notorious at getting the LAH emblems wrong) unit numbers and, the like. I even shake my head at the position of the cuff title on the LAH figures as its often too high up the sleeve!!! Now, they may not be the worst issues and some will say I am being overtly picky. Especially, as you say, historical impossibilities are worst but, IMO these things albeit minor to some, show, to me, (a complete lack of appreciation to the customer at worst or, sloppy research at best) to those who are paying good money for the set and, why I think its important for these points to be raised by, whoever, can.
Mitch

For myself, minor inaccuracies will not kill a sale of something I want. Gross inaccuracies ,historical impossibility, and unreasonable pricing will keep my money in my wallet. Quality is subjective to me and I reflect on it case by case. I love Mulberry Miniatures, have over 200 figures, but others might say they are crude in their casting and paint styles. I have a number of gloss home cast sets made by individuals, but none would match up in quality to any of the big guys offerings. Uniqueness is more important an attribute than any other to me...Michael

 

[lancer]

Michael...

I am interested in what you consider to be a minor innacuracy or a major one. I really like this hobby but, and I am sure it annoys some folks but, for me, getting the wrong unit markings (manufacturers are notorious at getting the LAH emblems wrong) unit numbers and, the like. I even shake my head at the position of the cuff title on the LAH figures as its often too high up the sleeve!!! Now, they may not be the worst issues and some will say I am being overtly picky. Especially, as you say, historical impossibilities are worst but, IMO these things albeit minor to some, show, to me, (a complete lack of appreciation to the customer at worst or, sloppy research at best) to those who are paying good money for the set and, why I think its important for these points to be raised by, whoever, can.
Mitch

Excellent post and pretty well sums up my attitude. Something that is just plain wrong shows a lack of basic research and "minor" errors show a lack of attention to detail. Both are fixable and shouldn't occur at the prices we are being charged for nowadays. -- Al

 

[Mitch]

Al..

Thanks for that
Mitch

Excellent post and pretty well sums up my attitude. Something that is just plain wrong shows a lack of basic research and "minor" errors show a lack of attention to detail. Both are fixable and shouldn't occur at the prices we are being charged for nowadays. -- Al

 

[maddadicus]

Michael...

I am interested in what you consider to be a minor innacuracy or a major one. I really like this hobby but, and I am sure it annoys some folks but, for me, getting the wrong unit markings (manufacturers are notorious at getting the LAH emblems wrong) unit numbers and, the like. I even shake my head at the position of the cuff title on the LAH figures as its often too high up the sleeve!!! Now, they may not be the worst issues and some will say I am being overtly picky. Especially, as you say, historical impossibilities are worst but, IMO these things albeit minor to some, show, to me, (a complete lack of appreciation to the customer at worst or, sloppy research at best) to those who are paying good money for the set and, why I think its important for these points to be raised by, whoever, can.
Mitch

Minor inaccuracy ( wrong unit #, insignia , wrong cuff color, " rivets " missing on vehicles, wrong colors on plane cowlings, shades not being WW or WW2 spot on, etc. ) As much as a mfg. ought get it all right ( there is no good excuse ), I personally do not care. If it is a mistake that I would not have noticed in the first place without being pointed out, then I am OK with it. Total fantasy vehicles are out and historically wrong vehicles or figures are out. Would never buy Custer/7th Cavalry figures with sabers represented for Little Bighorn. Mythical WW1 German armored car made by K/C a few years ago. I would imagine that a majority of TS collectors probably have my perspective on collecting. Does not make it right or wrong but keeps it all very simple..Michael

 

[Mitch]

Thanks for that. Mind, I can see which post would heeve the manufcaturers a big sigh of relief out of the two. Would you see it as simple if these standards were your kitchen or bathroom and jonny monkey slap dashed some work? but, so long as you could cook or bathe it works for me?? With no disrespect meant at all I hope more collectors are moving away from that position as it allows shoddy releases to continue maybe, not as the norm but, sufficient to be of concern as we have mentioned for the price.
Best Wishes
Mitch

Minor inaccuracy ( wrong unit #, insignia , wrong cuff color, " rivets " missing on vehicles, wrong colors on plane cowlings, shades not being WW or WW2 spot on, etc. ) As much as a mfg. ought get it all right ( there is no good excuse ), I personally do not care. If it is a mistake that I would not have noticed in the first place without being pointed out, then I am OK with it. Total fantasy vehicles are out and historically wrong vehicles or figures are out. Would never buy Custer/7th Cavalry figures with sabers represented for Little Bighorn. Mythical WW1 German armored car made by K/C a few years ago. I would imagine that a majority of TS collectors probably have my perspective on collecting. Does not make it right or wrong but keeps it all very simple..Michael

 

[maddadicus]

Thanks for that. Mind, I can see which post would heeve the manufcaturers a big sigh of relief out of the two. Would you see it as simple if these standards were your kitchen or bathroom and jonny monkey slap dashed some work? but, so long as you could cook or bathe it works for me?? With no disrespect meant at all I hope more collectors are moving away from that position as it allows shoddy releases to continue maybe, not as the norm but, sufficient to be of concern as we have mentioned for the price.
Best Wishes
Mitch

Mitch, the only way mfg. screw ups will stop is if collectors protest via their wallet and that is not going to happen. I still collect TOY SOLDIERS, not historical miniatures, and thus my standards are not so rigid as some. As to my kitchen and bath, a $5000 dollar project carries with it a much greater scrutiny than a $35 figure or a $150.00 vehicle. Since I do not pay connoisseur pricing or collect same figures and my collector is of the average joe type in makeup and degrees of quality, I am content with the get what you pay for collecting philosophy. Real life stuff cost more , real life situations mean more, and TS collecting is a hobby of choices, not the be all and end all, as some collectors make it to be ..:wink2: I was and still am a big fan of the early K/C blocks of polystone that looked like vehicles. Michael

 

[wayne556517]

Minor inaccuracy ( wrong unit #, insignia , wrong cuff color, " rivets " missing on vehicles, wrong colors on plane cowlings, shades not being WW or WW2 spot on, etc. ) As much as a mfg. ought get it all right ( there is no good excuse ), I personally do not care. If it is a mistake that I would not have noticed in the first place without being pointed out, then I am OK with it. Total fantasy vehicles are out and historically wrong vehicles or figures are out. Would never buy Custer/7th Cavalry figures with sabers represented for Little Bighorn. Mythical WW1 German armored car made by K/C a few years ago. I would imagine that a majority of TS collectors probably have my perspective on collecting. Does not make it right or wrong but keeps it all very simple..Michael

Sounds good to me,like you said we collect "TOYSOLDIERS" not historically correct miniatures,i look around at my collection and it makes me smile as simple as that...........{sm4}

 

[uksubs]

Sounds good to me,like you said we collect "TOYSOLDIERS" not historically correct miniatures,i look around at my collection and it makes me smile as simple as that...........{sm4}

Can't agree with that mate , for the price there charging they should be historically correct , if you check a K&C box it say there not Toys but collector's models

 

[damian]

I don't have the knowledge to recognize incorrect markings etc and I do not have the time to go out and acquire such knowledge. As has been said by others I am not fanatical about accuracy but at the same time I do not want to be played as a chump. Manufacturers are charging a lot for these figures I expect that they should be as accurate as possible.

 

[PanzerAce1944]

Excellent post and pretty well sums up my attitude. Something that is just plain wrong shows a lack of basic research and "minor" errors show a lack of attention to detail. Both are fixable and shouldn't occur at the prices we are being charged for nowadays. -- Al

I agree totally. When you pay $35.00 to $49.00 or more for one single standing figure it needs to be correct and accurate. Isn't this what we are paying for ????
Detail and authenticity ????

 

[Partner]

Another take on this triangle is based on my experince in a professional service industry where the three points of the triangle are :

Cheap
Quick
Good

Pick 2
if you want it good and quick , it won't be cheap !!
if you want it good and cheap , it won't be quick !!
if you want it cheap and quick , go someplace else !!


From the TS perspective of "Accuracy, Quality,Price "we can't have it all and must make choices.
Thankfully with all the manufacturers out there we can make choices .
Regards
Kirk

 

[Arnhemjim]

Another take on this triangle is based on my experince in a professional service industry where the three points of the triangle are :

Cheap
Quick
Good

Pick 2
if you want it good and quick , it won't be cheap !!
if you want it good and cheap , it won't be quick !!
if you want it cheap and quick , go someplace else !!


From the TS perspective of "Accuracy, Quality,Price "we can't have it all and must make choices.
Thankfully with all the manufacturers out there we can make choices .
Regards
Kirk

Hello Kirk,
Hear! Hear! Very well said sir.
Yours aye,
Arnhem Jim
Arizona Territory