Remember or forget the Alamo? (1 Viewer)

Poppo

In the Cooler
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In America there is wind of historical revisionism on the myth of Alamo .....

The author of the book says: "Slavery was the undeniable linchpin of all of this" - "Most academics now believe, based on Mexican accounts and contemporary accounts, that, in fact, [Crockett] did surrender and was executed "-" heroic Anglo narrative "-" The Tejanos, who were the Texians' key allies and a number of which fought and died at the Alamo, were entirely written out of generations of Texas history [as it was] written by Anglo writers. This was mirrored very much in the kind of ethnic cleansing that went on after the revolution in which hundreds of Tejanos were pushed out of San Antonio, in Victoria and existing towns, their lands taken, laws passed against their ability to marry white women and hold public office. "-" when you look at the facts, they never made a conscious decision to fight to the death. There was no line in the sand drawn. "-" What we now know is because Mexican accounts - accounts from Mexican officers and soldiers - a number of them, a dozen of them have come to light over the last 50 years, show that between a third and a half [of] the Texas defenders actually broke and ran. They ran out into the open where they were unceremoniously run down and killed by Mexican cavalry. Now, neither we nor the academic authors who first found this say that this means anybody was a coward. It was just that the place was overrun. It wasn't like every man fought to his death in place, as generations of historians have taught us. "-" Mexican American kids can grow up in Texas believing they're Americans, with the Statue of Liberty and all that, until seventh grade when you were taught, in essence, that if you're Mexican, your ancestors killed Davy Crockett, that that's kind of the original sin of the Texas creation myth. It has been used just anecdotally for generations to put down Mexican Americans, a big beefy white guy going up to the little Mexican guy and punching him in the arm and saying, "Remember the Alamo," that type of thing. "


What do you think?


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This ought to be an interesting discussion; I'll get my popcorn ready.
 
Not sure what motivates the constant sniping at US history. It's boring.
 
"This is the west, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." The Alamo is what it is, and no revisionist schlock is going to change it. Nor should it. -- Al
 
"This is the west, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." The Alamo is what it is, and no revisionist schlock is going to change it. Nor should it. -- Al

Well said Al. Sadly, my 22-year old daughter went to San Antonio for a wedding and I told her to check out the Alamo. Her reply was, "What is that?" I said, what do they teach you in school?
 
Ill take any and all bets that the Alamo story gets revisited if not outright re-written in the course of my lifetime.
 
I agree with Lancer, Poppo.
Some myths have taken on a kind of reality and have become a part of life here -
And the Alamo is one of the best US Historical Sites and the story we Americans have woven around it is pretty cool to most of us. I do not see it as controversial.
I do think Texas thrives more with the US than it ever could have with Mexico, and the State has added a great deal to our Country.
But Warning: This may become a contentious topic: I once made a joke at an Irish Festival that shouldn't have offended anyone but almost landed me peat & dung trough. We all have to watch ourselves.
But nothing wrong with saying Remember the Alamo!
And let the Historians wrangle over the details. I may (or may not) read up on it.
Best Wishes to All
Paddy
 
History is written by the victors; unless it's dealing with the Alamo, a very touchy subject among Americans.

The "a number of the defenders broke and ran and were cut down in the open by Mexican cavalry/lancers" theory has been out there for awhile.

Did they all die hero's deaths defending Texas from "invading" Mexicans?

Yeah; probably not.

But at least they helped coin the phrase "Remember the Alamo!!"............something apparently schools have forgotten about when they teach history by the sound of things.

"Hey, when you're in San Antonio, don't forget to visit the Alamo"............."What's that?"

Wow; ok then.
 
You mean that Fess Parker and Buddy Ebsen didn't fight to the death at the Alamo??? Everyone loves a "Walt Disney" Hero and every country loves their hero's and heroic stories.
Its often called "patriotic propaganda".

Having worked closely with historians over the last 12 years while building dioramas at museums I learned a lot about historic research. Spending hours, months and years combing through
old letters, journals, diaries, newspapers and manuscripts to verify or contradict events in history is their mission. In addition looking at historical records from other countries and the participants of a battle
or event from many perspectives drives the history as close as possible to reality. Personally I prefer the truth, as close as we can get it from actual historical research. Not to take away the meaning of
an historical event but to learn from the facts.
The Alamo was an important event in American History but we have to understand why the other side (Mexico) would think differently. I find it fascinating to get both sides of the story and then coming to my
own conclusions....even if it means my Disney hero's were not so heroic.
 
An amazing amount of history is unknown or the subject of an historian's subjective interpretation that then gets repeated by others. There was a great book on the Jack the Ripper case that tried to go back to the original source material to sort out truth from myths and falsehoods that arose about the case. Many historians over the years had simply repeated errors and incorrect interpretations made by prior historians. And, in many instance, there wasn't much to begin with. So the historians had conjured up narratives to fill the gaps that were then repeated by others until it became accepted as fact. In the case of the Alamo, how much does it really matter if Davy Crockett was killed in the battle or after surrendering? He lost his life for the cause.
 
History is often revisited based on current trends. Right now, the hot button is race, if you can bring that into an "old historical" discussion, you have more chances to sell books, right or wrong. I find it borderline disgusting as it is a cheap attempt to sell a book and seemingly continues the narrative of division. Sad statement really. I too am growing weary of the assault on US History, but as I posted before, I have a now Senior in HS and what he was taught in 11th grade US History is atrocious beyond belief.

Tom
 
A lot of us here, myself included, also are history buffs, interest in military history and toy soldiers go hand in hand, I like to read books about various episodes in military history and famous battles such as Waterloo and Gettysburg among others.

I've got dozens of books on both subjects, can't get enough of either battle truth be told.

As time goes on and more information comes to light, it's interesting to see how battles change and the actions within them become clearer, myth vs reality.

Regarding the Alamo; again, as new information comes out, it's interesting to read about and discuss and see the difference between myth and reality.

At the end of the day, does it really matter how any of the Alamo defenders died?

If their deaths are thought of as heroic, it upsets people when different theories are floated, people want their heroes to remain just that, heroes.

The Battle of the Alamo really doesn't interest me, it was a no win situation from jump, it was impossible for that many men to properly defend the compound, four times their number would have been a better number and even at that, who knows.

The Alamo is like Pickett's Charge; both of them were failures that as time has gone on, they have gained legendary status and again, people don't like it when legends get taken down a few pegs.
 
A lot of us here, myself included, also are history buffs, interest in military history and toy soldiers go hand in hand, I like to read books about various episodes in military history and famous battles such as Waterloo and Gettysburg among others.

I've got dozens of books on both subjects, can't get enough of either battle truth be told.

As time goes on and more information comes to light, it's interesting to see how battles change and the actions within them become clearer, myth vs reality.

Regarding the Alamo; again, as new information comes out, it's interesting to read about and discuss and see the difference between myth and reality.

At the end of the day, does it really matter how any of the Alamo defenders died?

If their deaths are thought of as heroic, it upsets people when different theories are floated, people want their heroes to remain just that, heroes.

The Battle of the Alamo really doesn't interest me, it was a no win situation from jump, it was impossible for that many men to properly defend the compound, four times their number would have been a better number and even at that, who knows.

The Alamo is like Pickett's Charge; both of them were failures that as time has gone on, they have gained legendary status and again, people don't like it when legends get taken down a few pegs.

Very well said, as usual George.

Personally, I don't mind research into the Truth - or my favorite legends being taken town a peg - as long as even the myths are preserved. Even if only a few of us are interested, the old stories are worth preserving.
Paddy
 
All,

Lemme go buy a Christmas tree and I will get back to y'all on this...

John from Texas
 
All,

The Alamo story is a cool one...line in the sand and all that. Knowing the story as a kid it brings up images of heroism and being famous in history whether you survived or not. Davy Crocket, SF Austin, the Evil General Santa Ana and the lot is the stuff of legend and it almost is somewhat of a Star Wars esq greek tragedy.

When I was in middle school (outside of Texas) was the first time I came to understand the racial slight of "Remember the Alamo" and after those taunts I loathed the famous quote. Like, that was the history of my home town and kids were using it (and to me) for their own laughs and entertainment. Hated it and it was cruel.

When I studied the battle when I was auditioning for the last movie I found myself at the LBJ Library with white gloves reading some interesting historical documents to prepare for the audition. Anyway, a somewhat lost figure in the story was General Castrillion who was General Santa Ana's number #2 and a life long professional soldier from Europe. He was not a GSA crony and consistently reminded El General the rules of engagement and the consequences of his military decisions. He was GSA conscious and GSA did not like him in his ear. He kept a back channel communication with the "rebels" and was highly regarded by the Tejanos/Texians. When he was killed at the Battle of San Jacinto he was buried by Juan Seguin and the Gringos with full military honors and one day I will find his grave and pay my respects. He hated the killing of civilians, the Indians and the way GSA treated his soldiers. He disapproved, but followed orders. He made such an impact on me I named my sons middled name Castrillion in honor of him. I didn't get the part...I was too tall they said.

Now, there is this wave of re-writing history and giving credit or non credit to historical figures. Fine...research is cool and clears up a lot of BS and sets the record straight. But nobody is owed anything because of it and if you believe the Hollywood Version of ANY story, well, you will be woefully disappointed or live in bliss if you get your answers in history from movies. The closest we got is "Flags or our Fathers"...great effing movie.

It's a cool story and a living memorial of a bygone history that has made its mark in Texas History and kicked off an entire State. Those who perished in battle will forever be memorialized and should be and I think it is unfair to split hairs over who drew the line in the sand or whatever. But, if there is a buck to be made on the backs of those who died in battle, there are plenty of takers out there to say "WAIT, WAIT...I GOT IT...THIS IS WHAT REALLY HAPPENED"

Man spare me...some stories just need to lie in rest, just like the Warriors who died in the moment in history...on both sides.

John from Texas
 
Great post.I think we can look at all angles of this story because as we know no story is exactly as we see it through the lens of time.Whatever you think of the battle no one can take away that it was epic moment in the history of Texas.
Mark
 
I gave it some thought, Poppo, and decided on a one-word answer which I am far too long-winded to give:

Remember.

Remember as much as possible, and always look for the truth, but never forget.

Should old acquaintance be forgot? Rhetorical question. Of course not.

Well here's for days long gone by, however we remember them. I choose to enjoy myths and facts, and can usually recognize the difference quickly. Both make History more fun.

Paddy
 
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