Sauce for the Goose… (1 Viewer)

[Mitch]

Brett...

Well, thats still an open question to whether all dealers would take it back because you don't like the paint scheme. I don't know about collectors who buy getting irritated. I still think the whole way some people act about toy soldiers a little bemusing. If you cannot stay calm when someone mentions something about a choosen manufacturer and, feel the need to steam in and defend to the hilt its questionable how one deals with real difficulties in life. If someone says I dislike FL as all their facial features are the same (guilty) or, K&C is overpriced junk how does that really affect anyone?? Why people feel the need to fly off the handle is beyond me but, as people do some will use that to wind them up all the more. If the people who get irritated just calm down then mature discussion about sets that have gone well past toys and have become historical objects and, as such should be accurate can be discussed

If collectors are able to post comments about how wonderful they think a set is and, say a poster can see an absolute flaw from their standpoint I am not in the least bit bothered if the negative is mentioned again or, how long someone wants to bang on about how good it is. Fine with me.

I still think, and its mentioned to me many times, that what some people see (again refer to above) as pulling the sets apart is informative to others and, helps them focus where they are going to spend their hard earned money and, to me, anyway thats important.

All awaiting the sets would do would delay the discussion by a few weeks and, end up in a lot of sets from some not happy being returned to dealers. I think its better discussing them maturally when they are released.
Mitch

Mitch,
On your first para question. In my case absolutely no problem to return such an item and I believe most dealers would act the same.

Lets assume a person has no intention to buy an item because of a specific problem which he has commented upon and also started a thread on. Even after seeing these comments a number of people buy the item and are happy with it yet he continues to raise the original point over multiple posts over weeks and possibly months (possibly without even seeing one). There does come a point when enough is enough and it is time to move on. Hard to say when that point is but 10 x might be enough to get the point across or is that not enough ? For those who have bought the item I think you will agree they might find it a little irritating.

Regards
Brett




Brett...

Thats fine to a point but, for the money, many collectors cannot see the model in the flesh and, when they see it in the flesh its only because they have forked out their hard earned cash and bought it. If they then see an issue say paint colour etc what recourse have they. Would you take one back and refund a customer because they state the paint colour is not correct and does not do justice to the person or AFV it depicts?

I do agree that sometimes the pictures from manufacturers do not do the justice sets but, have not come across a picture where the colour is so distorted that when one opens the box its another shade.

I would think and, its clearly obvious on the whole forum that collectors are now becoming more discerning and want to evaluate and scrutinise their purchases more and more. This may be more awareness from collectors historically and in terms of accuracy or, just because of the prices. It may even be both but, I would venture its here to stay.

I wonder how much or who decides what is enough comment when a thread is flowing whether positive or negative. I did mention a few times on the barrel issue that if it was a dog it would have been put down but, it still continued and many of the multiple posters put different twists on their droopy barrel issues.

What you suggest in theory sounds fine but, in practice awaiting the sets just seems not to work for many reasons. when they are released you can easily tell whether something physically i.e. markings unit numbers camo style colour are right or wrong and, I would think its wrong to not say so until its released even if you don't actually buy the set makes little difference as not everyone can buy everything.
Mitch

 

[The Military Workshop]

Mitch,
As I was trying to point out it can be the sheer frequency of the point/error that irritates some. It can result in the comments of a few who have not bought the item far outnumbering the comments of the many who have actually bought it and are happy with it. In some cases I would go so far as to say the negative people (I mean negative towards the item not necesssarily negative in general) are upset the positives have not accepted their opinion and have made the purchase despite their repeated comments.

I have a feeling we are going to be seeing another obvious example of this in the coming months{sm4}.

Regards
Brett

 

[uksubs]

Well I've made. My point about the colour of the spitfire and Andy said he won't change it so for me it time to move on ,it still a nice looking plane

 

[uksubs]

I noted that Mitch described most of the above comments as being "very childish and immature". However I view them as a reasoned response to Mitch, who as some of us know makes money from repairing and repainting models made by King & Country, Figarti etc.

Well Mitch as done loads of stuff for me but not once as asked for money but just like a gift as a thank you

 

[OzDigger]

Ozdigger...

reasoned responses droning on about post numbers and that I am bothered if people disagree with me.. Please give me a break!! considering the feathers you ruffled in your time on here mate its also what andy calls a bit rich.

Andy also ruffles feathers as has been seen many times and recently with the recent shyster episode and, this looked just the same. One post removed from a section which annoyed and an immediate follow up and, then another follow up which, as its a dig at mitch is seemingly acceptable and allowed to stay. so, people in glass houses!!!

I am unsure where the repainting and fixing models comes into it? I do but, then I have never said that I hate K&C its quite the opposite as many on here know but, that does not equate to me having to either get on and agree with everything andy says and, take it as gospel or, make comments on what they release when its wrong, broken or, just plain made up. I see many others do and, have for many many years. I am sure that you also remember this well.

We are supposed to comment on what is released and, if the barrels droop and, the spit is wrong contrary to any other opinion then it should be said

Another day in toy heaven and, so we can all sleep well, just blame it on me. It seems to work for some and the fact that the third string from the original post is still here as its a little dig at mitch rather sums it up
Mitch

Mitch, clearly Andy's tongue in cheek comment about your posting 'abilities' touched a nerve with you. I doubt many forum members would consider his comment(s) "childish and immature" but you keep thinking that if it makes you feel better.

I do remember the "shyster episode" and I think Brad over reacted and read to much into what Andy actually said, something similar to what you are doing now. Yet another example of not what was said, but who said it.

I used to get concerned because K & C were not playing my detail game. It took me a while to work out that about 90% of K & C collectors do not care if their models are entirely accurate or not, they just want something that looks good in their display cabinet and represents something they are interested in. No doubt K & C could produce more accurate and more detailed models for the remaining 10%. However the increased cost of the materials, labor etc would put such sets beyond the reach of a large number of their collector base, and that wouldn't do anyone any favors.

As for the current crusade about the grey color not being the exact shade of grey, are you serious, it all seems a bit fanatical to me.

 

[uksubs]

my[/B] detail game. It took me a while to work out that about 90% of K & C collectors do not care if their models are entirely accurate or not, they just want something that looks good in their display cabinet and represents something they are interested in. No doubt K & C could produce more accurate and more detailed models for the remaining 10%. However the increased cost of the materials, labor etc would put such sets beyond the reach of a large number of their collector base, and that wouldn't do anyone any favors.

me.

Think your right Oz about Kc but that maybe the reason why more people are buying FL and figarti for the same money but better detail

 

[Mitch]

Brett...

I don't think anyone has that amount of influence on a forum to stop a person buying a product because it has faults or accuracy issues. Just as I don't think, conversly, someone going on about how good a set is makes people buy it. I think people on the whole, are mature enough to read what is said and then make their own mind up. What I do feel and its been prevalent throughout this forums life is that people see critique as some sort of personal attack against them and, thats stupid in the extreme IMO.

Just for one of the top of my head was the panzer meyer command AFV. The debate about the price it was at release and the comments about it should not be bought and should collectors take a stand against the huge hike in prices is a prime example. This item sold out in a few weeks.

I see and hear lots of things that irritate people from the music thread to some not liking others mixing sets with FL stuff etc etc and, hear plenty in PM and e-mail. so, what irritates people is not really an issue I am all that interested in if I am honest. If someone takes offence or, in your words is ''irritated'' by someone discussing their brand of toy soldiers which, does not hold with their way of thinking tough thats a reflection on them not, the poster. So long as its not done with the intent of annoying from the outset or, at any time during the its fair discussion. Even people get irritated when we debate back and forth!!!

Detail accuracy and all the rest are all things that should be discussed at length and in detail. Thi, as I have said before, is advertised as a toy soldier forum where you discuss all aspects of the hobby. Not, those aspects that just don't annoy a few. Coming up to 3,000 members with a small number of regular posters as has always been the case and, its not the few who decide what can and cannot be discussed or really how long. as long as its civil and not in contravention of the rules set by the forum as you have said many times before then, its OK
Mitch

Mitch,
As I was trying to point out it can be the sheer frequency of the point/error that irritates some. It can result in the comments of a few who have not bought the item far outnumbering the comments of the many who have actually bought it and are happy with it. In some cases I would go so far as to say the negative people (I mean negative towards the item not necesssarily negative in general) are upset the positives have not accepted their opinion and have made the purchase despite their repeated comments.

I have a feeling we are going to be seeing another obvious example of this in the coming months{sm4}.

Regards
Brett

 

[OzDigger]

Think your right Oz about Kc but that maybe the reason why more people are buying FL and figarti for the same money but better detail

Neil, I can't really agree with your "same money" claim because FL figures cost more than K & C and Figarti. Perhaps they offer better value for money if your main concern is accuracy, but most collectors don't care that much about accuracy. I have certainly considered collecting First Legion World War Two figures because their detail is excellent as is their historical accuracy. However there remains the issue of their relatively small size. If their figures are all 1/30 scale why are their WWII figures smaller than their Napoleonic range? I hope they increase the size of their WWII figs as I may be interested if they made some camo Germans.

Figarti make some great sets but as stated elsewhere there are some damage issues because of their finer detail. I have found that Figarti provide an excellent service if anyone receives a damaged set, but they are not mind readers and if people don't complain they won't get a replacement. Of course Mitch will fix it, but I understand he doesn't repair/repaint for free like Figarti does.

 

[Mitch]

I am somewhat bemused by your second comment on the repairs. If you have something to say about this please do and feel free then, I can respond to what it is you have on your active mind. As for Figarti doing it for free they do unless you then take into account the collector having to foot the bill all the way back to the factory at their own expense not figarti's which, I know they do and have done to many and, then offering a couple of figures as compensation free!!
Mitch

Neil, I can't really agree with your "same money" claim because FL figures cost more than K & C and Figarti. Perhaps they offer better value for money if your main concern is accuracy, but most collectors don't care that much about accuracy. I have certainly considered collecting First Legion World War Two figures because their detail is excellent as is their historical accuracy. However there remains the issue of their relatively small size. If their figures are all 1/30 scale why are their WWII figures smaller than their Napoleonic range? I hope they increase the size of their WWII figs as I may be interested if they made some camo Germans.

Figarti make some great sets but as stated elsewhere there are some damage issues because of their finer detail. I have found that Figarti provide an excellent service if anyone receives a damaged set, but they are not mind readers and if people don't complain they won't get a replacement. Of course Mitch will fix it, but I understand he doesn't repair/repaint for free like Figarti does.

 

[OzDigger]

I am somewhat bemused by your second comment on the repairs. If you have something to say about this please do and feel free then, I can respond to what it is you have on your active mind. As for Figarti doing it for free they do unless you then take into account the collector having to foot the bill all the way back to the factory at their own expense not figarti's which, I know they do and have done to many and, then offering a couple of figures as compensation free!!
Mitch

No need for any bemusement, I was hoping you had a sense of humor and would appreciate my reference to the repair/repaints you have done for Neil etc. I can't comment about what others have negotiated with Figarti, but in the past I have never had to pay to send anything back to them for repair/repaint.

 

[maddadicus]

As I understand it, all this whatever over what " GREY IS! ".......Real life problem issues hardly seem worth reacting to anymore as this forum cannot find the same moral outrage as this current and others' discussions...over toy soldiers. Michael

 

[Rob]

I've never had a problem with anyone bringing up an issue they have or query they want to raise, that's what free speech is all about and is to be defended at all costs. However I do think it would be nice if now and again when someone has made their point they don't then ram it down the throats of those who are enjoying the product at every single opportunity , its only then that it gets tedious and people start to wonder if there is something else going on. Its also common courtesy as well, sometimes just because we can post doesn't mean we should just to rain on someone else's parade.

Rob

 

[Phantom Warrior]

As I understand it, all this whatever over what " GREY IS! ".......Real life problem issues hardly seem worth reacting to anymore as this forum cannot find the same moral outrage as this current and others' discussions...over toy soldiers. Michael

I get it now. It's a whiter shade of pale. :wink2:^&grin

Terry

 

[Capitolron]

I have been gone for several weeks - nothing seems to change ....

Same Problems - Same People :rolleyes2:

 

[jazzeum]

I have been gone for several weeks - nothing seems to change ....

Same Problems - Same People :rolleyes2:

Ain't that the truth. You could trot out threads from years ago and they all look the same.

 

[OzDigger]

I get it now. It's a whiter shade of pale. :wink2:^&grin

Terry

Close, it's Fifty Shades of Grey {eek3}

 

[The Military Workshop]

Mitch,
You said it :
"what irritates people is not really an issue I am all that interested in if I am honest".

Rob's previous post sums it up well and I think Oz said pretty much what I was thinking in response to Neils FL/Figarti comment.

Neil,
Just a minor point but you might want to look at what you have been buying in recent months (obviously I am basing this on your frequent posts about your purchases which certainly do not seem to include any FL - a bit of deja vu here as using FL to have a minor go at K&C when you dont even buy it yourself - seems to me that in your case the detail you mention may not be at the price you are willing to pay).

Regards
Brett

 

[Peter Reuss]

Gents...we're starting to plow the same field on this thread. We're getting more and more personal...so it's time to be done.

I'm locking the thread down so infractions don't have to follow...