Scale vs " Eye scale" ??? (1 Viewer)

ccdc11

Sergeant First Class
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I really hope this doesn't degenerate into a ugly thread but here goes. Over the years there has been a increasing drumbeat of getting the scale and accuracy right on AFV's.
For some, it seems to be the first thing that they check on a new tank. It seems that almost every post, on any new product will eventually get to the question of scale and is it correct.
Someone was kind enough to do a chart years ago of what figs worked with what AFV's just based on scale alone and I've used it as a reference since but its not my first concern.
I guess my question is,

Does it matter to you if it is a 100 % accurate in scale?
Or
What I like to now call " eye scale" does it look correct and pleasing to the eye?

If someone who knows no military history were to see a diorama, does it look off based on figures size to vehicles size?
(For those of us who grew up with marx playsets the tank, lcp and jeep compared to the figures was ridiculous)
And can you blend other company's Afvs with another company's afvs and it not look off?

As a example, it is constantly stated that only FL is correct with their figures to tanks in scale and K&C is off to theirs.
I happened to like K&C figures with K&C tanks. And believe I have read that Andy stated that he makes his tanks to go with his figures and doesn't care beyond that. (here here)
I can blend my new ED tiger with K&C tigers and and TCS prime mover and figures from Tg and K&C all on the same table/shelf. IMO they work to the eye.
But I won't blend a TCS Tiger with FL figures because it does not look right to the eye.
No offense meant to any company, I collect all of them. And hopefully that is the last time a company's name is used for this thread.:rolleyes2:

I have read the reasons people state as a reason to get the scale accurate from the manufactures.
Cost of the new "toys" has drastically changes from 20 years ago and for the money we should expect it to be correct. And etc etc, I also think there has been a newer influx of model builders that have become toy soldier collectors and you guys are more used to scale being dead on. But how many of us really care if it's dead on accurate to scale?


What is your opinion?
Has to be correct to scale?
Or
Has to look right to the "eye scale"?

Ring goes the bell.
Chuck.
 
I’m sure you meant well but I’d be surprised if the thread doesn’t degenerate at some point.
 
Scale like figure size is a relative indicator of what will work together. I don't care about the absolute scale as long as the vehicles and figures are realistic in the same setting. I combine larger figures of 66-68mm size from K&C and TCS with 1/25 Tamiya Panzer models and visually they work well in a diorama. The 1/25 scale models have excellent detail, realistic individual link tracks and operating suspensions; they are very realistic and for less than $100.00 you can build a great model of a Tiger I, Panther, Jagdpanther or T34-85. Plus the large size makes them easy to assemble and paint for the novice modeler. You can than spend more on high quality figures than on overpriced polystone armor.

TCS Armor are decent models at a fair price and the TCS figures and Armor are the same scale. Plus they work with K&C and TG figures; while K&C and TG figures are oversize for their own Armor much like the Marx sets you mentioned. I guess to some people the oversize figures with too small Armor is what classifies it as a Toy Soldier versus a Military Miniature. TCS, JJD and FL make Military Miniatures. K&C and TG make Toy Soldiers. I am a Military Miniature collector and when I purchase a Panzer that is supposed to be 1/30 scale I am disappointed when it is not ; as it won't work realistically with my 60mm figures. The same applies to figure size; if the box says 60mm it should be 60mm +/-2mm maximum deviation. WB posts their figure size an d the rang of the size on their website. I wish other manufacturers would do the same. K&C, TCS and TG oversize figures can be very nice and I display my collection with the larger models ; which are 1/28; but no manufacturer will admit it!

I find scale discussions interesting and informative. I can see no reason why they should devolve into acrimony. New collectors on the Forum need the information conveyed in these discussions to make intelligent buying decisions.
 
I really hope this doesn't degenerate into a ugly thread but here goes. Over the years there has been a increasing drumbeat of getting the scale and accuracy right on AFV's.
For some, it seems to be the first thing that they check on a new tank. It seems that almost every post, on any new product will eventually get to the question of scale and is it correct.
Someone was kind enough to do a chart years ago of what figs worked with what AFV's just based on scale alone and I've used it as a reference since but its not my first concern.
I guess my question is,

Does it matter to you if it is a 100 % accurate in scale?
Or
What I like to now call " eye scale" does it look correct and pleasing to the eye?

If someone who knows no military history were to see a diorama, does it look off based on figures size to vehicles size?
(For those of us who grew up with marx playsets the tank, lcp and jeep compared to the figures was ridiculous)
And can you blend other company's Afvs with another company's afvs and it not look off?

As a example, it is constantly stated that only FL is correct with their figures to tanks in scale and K&C is off to theirs.
I happened to like K&C figures with K&C tanks. And believe I have read that Andy stated that he makes his tanks to go with his figures and doesn't care beyond that. (here here)
I can blend my new ED tiger with K&C tigers and and TCS prime mover and figures from Tg and K&C all on the same table/shelf. IMO they work to the eye.
But I won't blend a TCS Tiger with FL figures because it does not look right to the eye.
No offense meant to any company, I collect all of them. And hopefully that is the last time a company's name is used for this thread.:rolleyes2:

I have read the reasons people state as a reason to get the scale accurate from the manufactures.
Cost of the new "toys" has drastically changes from 20 years ago and for the money we should expect it to be correct. And etc etc, I also think there has been a newer influx of model builders that have become toy soldier collectors and you guys are more used to scale being dead on. But how many of us really care if it's dead on accurate to scale?


What is your opinion?
Has to be correct to scale?
Or
Has to look right to the "eye scale"?

Ring goes the bell.
Chuck.

Chuck that the way I roll mate eye scale :salute::
 
I’m sure you meant well but I’d be surprised if the thread doesn’t degenerate at some point.

Oh I know, I have been wanting to pose this question for a while but have held off for that reason.
Lets hope it doesn't
Can the term Eye scale catch on??{sm4}
 
Scale matters so I as a customer know what I'm getting and so I know it will work with items from other manufacturers if I want to display them together.

If it's advertised as 1/30 scale, it should be 1/30. If you want to make larger figures and vehicles, no problem. Just don't advertise them as 1/30 so we know what we are getting.

The thread shouldn't be too controversial as the hobby has sectioned itself off in recent years (at least for WW2).
K&C and TGM produce larger 1/28-ish figured and vehicles while FL, JJD, Warpark, WB and Eagle Design produce 1/30-ish figures and vehicles.
 
TCS produces 1/28 scale Armor by actual measurement. K&C has produced Armor from 1/32 to 1/28 scale. TG and Figarti Armor are 1/30 scale as are FL, JJD and ED. Some manufacturers make inaccurate statements as to the scale of their armor or produce Armor in a range of scales that can only be determined by actual measurement. A problem exists with polystone as a model media in that it shrinks as it cures. The shrinkage will vary depending upon the percentage and type of filler material used. Worst case a 1/30 scale model could vary from 1/31 to 1/29 scale.


Scale matters so I as a customer know what I'm getting and so I know it will work with items from other manufacturers if I want to display them together.

If it's advertised as 1/30 scale, it should be 1/30. If you want to make larger figures and vehicles, no problem. Just don't advertise them as 1/30 so we know what we are getting.

The thread shouldn't be too controversial as the hobby has sectioned itself off in recent years (at least for WW2).
K&C and TGM produce larger 1/28-ish figured and vehicles while FL, JJD, Warpark, WB and Eagle Design produce 1/30-ish figures and vehicles.
 
IF it looks good and I like it, scale doesn't matter at all.

That said, I would never put a First Legion AWI to go along with a King & Country AWI figure. Both are wonderful figures but I don't like the obvious difference in a side-by-side setup. However, perspective and camera angles are always a solution to scale issues … if that can be done within the diorama of course.


Most of my collection is on the (1/28th) size with figures from K&C, JJD, T.G.

* I find the latest JJD DAM, RSF and AWI Saratoga sets work GREAT with K&C AWI series.
* The T.G. WWII Japanese go well with the K&C Japanese and USMC sets.
* The JJD and K&C Corsair look mighty fine side-by-side.

However, I have some Frontline Colonial Classics Tavern sets and they DO NOT work well with the K&C or others.

Bottom line is that they are TOYS and what you like is what you collect.

---LaRRy
 
I’m sure you meant well but I’d be surprised if the thread doesn’t degenerate at some point.

Brad is right, when you preface a statement with, "I hope this doesn't degenerate into an ugly thread"... it usually does.:)
 


Brad is right, when you preface a statement with, "I hope this doesn't degenerate into an ugly thread"... it usually does.:)

Now why should that happen? ^&confuse
We are all mature adults here and ..... Oh wait!^&grin

Just keep it silly and fun

-- LaRRy
 
To me if it looks right it is right.

I recently had the good fortune to visit a diorama artist and view his amazing work. One of his works of passion was a commemoration to the passenger pigeon, shot to extinction about a century ago. He portrayed the scene of the migration of these birds in a box about a metre cubed. The sky was almost completely blacked out by thousands of birds all hand sculpted. The distance front to back on a sky that reduced to the horizon represented miles but looked perfectly believable as the birds were all different sizes, the furthest away being mere dots on the carved sheet of Perspex that held them suspended from invisible wires. Scale? I don’t make to scale says he, Art is about perspective; it MUST LOOK RIGHT; the measurement won’t matter.
 
When I was early in the hobby I bought what I liked until I got TCS and K&C Panthers to use together. The size difference was really disappointing and then as I collected different manufacturers figures and both the scale and style differences started to bother me. Now it is important to me.

The differences between FL, KP and WB figures don’t bother me, nor the differences so far between FL/JJD and ED vehicles.

Going beyond that matters to me.

It always bothered me that some figures looked too big for vehicles and I have eliminated that from most of my collection.
 
I collect many manufacturers figures and I display Figarti, Honor Bound and TG Armor with WB, Figarti and KP figures. I display TCS and some K&C Armor with TCS, TG and K&C figures. I would really like to display them all together but that will not work as a realistic display, so I segregate them by relative size. A lot of collectors move from one manufacturer to another as figures improve over time. I tend to keep all of mine which results in increasing size disparity over time. My earliest Armor models are 1/50 scale Corgi and Model Power, than 1/35 Minichamps followed by 1/30 Figarti and I still have them all; but I am running short of space!
 
To me and my collecting and dio building standards my eye is the ruler that measures everything. If it meets my eye, it meets my scale... I certainly won’t get a ruler to measure the scale to 1/30th perfection... Obviously there are two distinct groups of toy soldiers generally speaking: tcs (even slightly bigger) K&C and TG on one side, and FL, WB and others on the other, but sometimes depending on the figure or AFV this boundary may be overlooked. Get what pleases you and “meets your eye” and be happy. The rest IMHO is just rivet counting...
 
To me and my collecting and dio building standards my eye is the ruler that measures everything. If it meets my eye, it meets my scale... I certainly won’t get a ruler to measure the scale to 1/30th perfection... Obviously there are two distinct groups of toy soldiers generally speaking: tcs (even slightly bigger) K&C and TG on one side, and FL, WB and others on the other, but sometimes depending on the figure or AFV this boundary may be overlooked. Get what pleases you and “meets your eye” and be happy. The rest IMHO is just rivet counting...

Great post and it mirrors my feelings on it as well.
 
To me and my collecting and dio building standards my eye is the ruler that measures everything. If it meets my eye, it meets my scale... I certainly won’t get a ruler to measure the scale to 1/30th perfection... Obviously there are two distinct groups of toy soldiers generally speaking: tcs (even slightly bigger) K&C and TG on one side, and FL, WB and others on the other, but sometimes depending on the figure or AFV this boundary may be overlooked. Get what pleases you and “meets your eye” and be happy. The rest IMHO is just rivet counting...


The problem with your post is that you (and the OP) assume your preference is the right way to collect. That does not appeal to me and others. We do like the details and understanding the nuances. That is a legitimate way to enjoy the hobby as well.

These threads go poorly when one form of collector assumes the other is wrong and condescendingly tells them to collect differently.

That is the problem. Assuming there is only one way to collect and enjoy the hobby and others are wrong
 
When all is said and done it always boils down to what YOU are happy with.

Scale is as much a perception as it is an idea.

Everyone has a different opinion and to be fair there's really no right or wrong answer.

If you think it looks good and you've enjoyed building it then hey what more can you ask.

Keep it simple and have fun I say.
 
Eyeball calibration varies from individual to individual; that's why rulers and calipers were invented to standardize measurements. Toy Soldiers are measured by eyeballs and Military Miniatures by rulers IMO! Different tastes, different styles, no problem. All is good and toys are fun!
 
Eyeball calibration varies from individual to individual; that's why rulers and calipers were invented to standardize measurements. Toy Soldiers are measured by eyeballs and Military Miniatures by rulers IMO! Different tastes, different styles, no problem. All is good and toys are fun!

We agree on something! Yay!
 

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