Sherman firefly & Cromwell (1 Viewer)

[WW2]

hi all,

am a silent lurker for some years; and a very modest collector also. enjoyed reading all you guys threads indeed....

i have emailed someone privately about this; but i decided to post a thread and maybe will get some others opinions on this

the squadron signs on the KC sherman firefly and cromwell have come to my attention recently.....i have not discovered a discussion thread about this; if there was, forgive me pls

1. according to the guards armoured division painted on the firefly, historically the squadron sign should be in BLUE, not yellow. the location of the sign on the hull, not the turret side;

2. for the cromwell, the squadron sign should be in WHITE, not yellow, based on the division painted on the tank

what are your opinions on this??

cheers

 

[WW2]

here is a quick link for reference

http://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=590

 

[Blowtorch]

Don't know if the FoW ref is right or wrong, but K&C is known to detour from historical rigidity at times and for good reason sometimes imo. Sometimes it's more of an artistic stab at aesthetics...not an insult to historical precedent. They do need to push product off the shelf & sometimes that means making it a bit prettier than it was

 

[Mitch]

Just had a quick look at the firefly and, the book of british formations I have and, Tommy looks right. The ever open eye and, 53 are correct but, the square should be blue to depict the regiment stated.

Not had chance to see the Cromwell. Blowtorch is right but, the only thing I would add here is it would not have done much asthetically to have a blue square than a yellow. That said, I don't know if the emblem colour was changed at any time to yellow during operations. Does anyone else know as what I have in front of me does not say???

I know this model seemed to be the most accurate in terms of detail etc than others released

Hope it helps
Mitch

 

[OzDigger]

Don't know if the FoW ref is right or wrong, but K&C is known to detour from historical rigidity at times and for good reason sometimes imo. Sometimes it's more of an artistic stab at aesthetics...not an insult to historical precedent. They do need to push product off the shelf & sometimes that means making it a bit prettier than it was

As they say in advertising, sometimes you just got to chuck something on the floor and see if the cat licks it up.

 

[WW2]

i think the firefly and cromwell look great but i am going to find it very difficult to purchase them knowing that some "historical inaccuracies" might be present. am sure they have been and will continue to sell well, though i believe they are now retired items....

some may say its "small print" stuff....

anyway, interesting topic of discussion nonetheless....

wonder what the owners of these tanks think!!

 

[Mitch]

I think the cromwell has gone but, the firefly is still available. Its good IMO that detail and, accuracy are posed for all to see. Some are interested in great detail and some less so. If you only buy for 100% accuracy then the collections will be very small indeed as all manufacturers make errors or, make things that may not have seen the light of day.

I think K&C make errors but, theirs may be more highlighted because, unlike other manufacturers they release every month rather than every now and then.

I would not myself be put off buying the firefly for the unit emblem being the wrong colour as, this is easily rectified without any great problem.
Mitch

i think the firefly and cromwell look great but i am going to find it very difficult to purchase them knowing that some "historical inaccuracies" might be present. am sure they have been and will continue to sell well, though i believe they are now retired items....

some may say its "small print" stuff....

anyway, interesting topic of discussion nonetheless....

wonder what the owners of these tanks think!!

 

[WW2]

fair point

cromwell still available....

i just save the cash for the upcoming eastern front.....and possibly ME262! ^&grin

I think the cromwell has gone but, the firefly is still available. Its good IMO that detail and, accuracy are posed for all to see. Some are interested in great detail and some less so. If you only buy for 100% accuracy then the collections will be very small indeed as all manufacturers make errors or, make things that may not have seen the light of day.

I think K&C make errors but, theirs may be more highlighted because, unlike other manufacturers they release every month rather than every now and then.

I would not myself be put off buying the firefly for the unit emblem being the wrong colour as, this is easily rectified without any great problem.
Mitch

 

[Phantom Warrior]

The white 53 in a red square correctly shows the the Irish Guards as the 3rd most senior unit which means blue symbols - not yellow. The square should be blue but it is correctly placed on the turret which was the official place for it. Grant's were the exception and had the squadron symbols on the hull and not the turret.

I see you are in HK. Why not go into the K&C shop and see if you can buy the Firefly with the squares repainted blue?

Terry

 

[WW2]

hi terry

yes i thought about the location of it.....i have seen it placed on the hull though

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/36/dsc03872fk.jpg/

this is a tank at bovington i believe....

The white 53 in a red square correctly shows the the Irish Guards as the 3rd most senior unit which means blue symbols - not yellow. The square should be blue but it is correctly placed on the turret which was the official place for it. Grant's were the exception and had the squadron symbols on the hull and not the turret.

Terry

 

[Phantom Warrior]

hi terry

yes i thought about the location of it.....i have seen it placed on the hull though

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/36/dsc03872fk.jpg/

this is a tank at bovington i believe....

There was lots of variation from the official regulations in combat. But Bovington isn't always correct. It is more telling to use a photo from WWII than a repaint in a modern collection. There were probably Firefly with the symbol on the hull instead of the turret - or no symbol at all.

Terry

 

[WW2]

fair enough

There was lots of variation from the official regulations in combat. But Bovington isn't always correct. It is more telling to use a photo from WWII than a repaint in a modern collection. There were probably Firefly with the symbol on the hull instead of the turret - or no symbol at all.

Terry

 

[WW2]

i go to the shop all the time....working so close to it doesnt help!! :wink2:

i get too distracted once i am in there....

but i doubt they will do that for me though

The white 53 in a red square correctly shows the the Irish Guards as the 3rd most senior unit which means blue symbols - not yellow. The square should be blue but it is correctly placed on the turret which was the official place for it. Grant's were the exception and had the squadron symbols on the hull and not the turret.

I see you are in HK. Why not go into the K&C shop and see if you can buy the Firefly with the squares repainted blue?

Terry

 

[Guy]

You are right of course. I do not have the Cromwell but I changed my Firefly to a tank belonging to the 1st Armoured Battalion Coldstream Guards /B Squadron
see the pictures attached
guy

 

[Mitch]

Do it yourself and save the dollars!!!
Mitch

i go to the shop all the time....working so close to it doesnt help!! :wink2:

i get too distracted once i am in there....

but i doubt they will do that for me though

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Here are some photos the first one taken during the war shows the circle on the turret.

 

[WW2]

nicely done

You are right of course. I do not have the Cromwell but I changed my Firefly to a tank belonging to the 1st Armoured Battalion Coldstream Guards /B Squadron
see the pictures attached
guy
View attachment 85764View attachment 85765

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Wouldn't it have been easier to change the yellow square to blue and not upset the Irish? ^&grin

How did you change the 53 to a 52?

Terry

 

[Mitch]

Terry..

The decals can easily be removed without damaging the paintwork and, can either be repainted or, decals can be bought and applied. Thier are many on the market which, can be used either dry rub or slide decal. I would presume this is what Guy has done
Mitch

Wouldn't it have been easier to change the yellow square to blue and not upset the Irish? ^&grin

How did you change the 53 to a 52?

Terry

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Here is a photo of a modern repaint of an Irish Guards Firefly. Notice how the blue square is filled in with a dark colour to make it more visible. The other thing is that the tank number (1, 2, 3, and sometimes 4) would be inside the geometric symbol.