Should KC Dealers Be Posting On The Forum?? (5 Viewers)

Should KC Dealers Be A Part of the Poll Posting Forum?

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Bayern

Bayern

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It would and has always seemed to me that KC dealers are biased buy the fact that they sell., profit and make a living off the product right or wrong.

So I pose the question should dealers be allowed to post on the forum knowing they will obviously be biased to say nothing but good. I mean what good info is gained by this?

Ludwig
 
Would that mean that the owners of Treefrog would be banned from posting on their own site? To balance it out we would need to also ban those who post overwhelmingly negative reviews so we would be left with a whole bunch of people saying that this set 'is OK'. It is also the question of bias - even if dealers are biased on financial grounds, everyone has an agenda of sorts. There is no such thing as an unbiased opinion - your opinions are shaped by your background as are mine. You could be banned from posting about German history and I could be banned from posting about Australian history. Who would post on slavery - the descendants of the victims, who would have views shaped by their background, or the descendants of the slave owners? Who would discuss any history at all?

We all hold views that are inevitably shaped by who we are - financial agendas are only one and I believe the dealers must identify themselves so at least we are forewarned. I might not like Scots, so could post away happily and bad mouth Andy's product at will and could hide behind free speech. At least we know who the owners are. Of all the agendas to worry about, I suspect financial might be the least concerning.

As an activity - why did you start this thread? Why was I the first to answer? What will drive other people to respond? Who will agree with you? Who will not? There are agendas - and they do not have to be negative - everywhere.
 
Big NO from me Ludwig. I don't think dealers should post anything because if they say anything in the negative it could hurt their sales & create hostility with K&C. Textbook conflict of interest. Keith
 
Dealers should be ABLE to post, at their own risk, and as long as they don't directly try to steal business from TF. If you know a dealer, you know that they don't just say good things- unless the manufacturers are watching{sm4}.
Just my opinion,
Sandor
 
Jack said:
Would that mean that the owners of Treefrog would be banned from posting on their own site? To balance it out we would need to also ban those who post overwhelmingly negative reviews so we would be left with a whole bunch of people saying that this set 'is OK'. It is also the question of bias - even if dealers are biased on financial grounds, everyone has an agenda of sorts. There is no such thing as an unbiased opinion - your opinions are shaped by your background as are mine. You could be banned from posting about German history and I could be banned from posting about Australian history. Who would post on slavery - the descendants of the victims, who would have views shaped by their background, or the descendants of the slave owners? Who would discuss any history at all?

We all hold views that are inevitably shaped by who we are - financial agendas are only one and I believe the dealers must identify themselves so at least we are forewarned. I might not like Scots, so could post away happily and bad mouth Andy's product at will and could hide behind free speech. At least we know who the owners are. Of all the agendas to worry about, I suspect financial might be the least concerning.

As an activity - why did you start this thread? Why was I the first to answer? What will drive other people to respond? Who will agree with you? Who will not? There are agendas - and they do not have to be negative - everywhere.
Click to expand...

Jack, You will fight for your dealer right or wrong and I do not find your post un-biased. With such I will not dignify it with a response.

vividgraphx said:
Big NO from me Ludwig. I don't think dealers should post anything because if they say anything in the negative it could hurt their sales & create hostility with K&C. Textbook conflict of interest. Keith
Click to expand...

Honestly, Here is what I have. No...dealers should be not allowed to post. Now the owners of the forum being dealers, they seem to be able to stay neutral from issues either for or against. It is theirs to own; operate; and facilitate moderators...but if you notice they do not get involved in what each maker does that is good bad or indifferent...also it is theirs to do as they will. For the rest of us: I pose the position that other dealers are doing this and their un-biased opinions are not indicative of the normal forum vote or response. Ergo..they will defend their bottom line until the end.

I pose the question that should they be involved in normal forum poll's? I say no...I say they should refrain to a dealer thread.

What say you?

Ludwig
 
Jack, You will fight for your dealer right or wrong and I do not find your post un-biased.

Which is exactly my point...of course my post is biased. All posts are biased, by everyone, eveywhere on every topic. To express an opinion is to express a bias. To eliminate bias from the Forum, everyone must be removed. You thread is based on a bias. My response is based on a bias. Your response to my response is based on your identifcation of my bias, which in turn identifies a bias of yours. Nothing wrong with this thread unless you deny that you - like everyone else - has a bias. You have placed this in the K&C thread rather than a more general area, so is it dealers or K&C dealers who should be censored? Is that your bias? Am I biased in favour of K&C?
 
Sorry my friend, Ludwig, but I have to fall in Jacks column and say I support to notion that "EVERYONE" should be able to post and comment. That includes Collectors / Non-collectors / Dealers / and of course Andy himself (as well as all manufacturers.) Don't you think Andy may be just a wee-bit bias? ^&confuse

What's wrong with bias anyway? If you are enthusiastic about something; a Toy Soldier, a baseball team, a rock group or bottle or wine; it is great that you want to tell everyone how good it is.

Besides, I know of many [K&C / Conte / JJD / First Legion / more ] dealers, whose opinion I respect, that tell the true about a line, a figure even thought it may not be in their best interest.

Dealers have insight that we don't since they are closer to the frontend supply line and of course they have a lot of risk. Many dealers are "forced" to purchase multiple sets even if they don't think that will be popular with their customers. I am not just talking about K&C but all manufacturers. That is just one of the risks on being a dealer. So if they want to talk-it-up that works for me.
Mind you, there is a big difference between being biased and lying. I can truly say that I have NEVER had a dealer lie. (eBay is a different story!!!)

Am I biased …. sure? I have 1300 or so K&C figures so does that me that I shouldn’t post?

Jack asked the question about why this thread? Is there an issue that occurred?

Have fun and good hunting, Ludwig
Larry
 
Jack said:
Would that mean that the owners of Treefrog would be banned from posting on their own site? To balance it out we would need to also ban those who post overwhelmingly negative reviews so we would be left with a whole bunch of people saying that this set 'is OK'. It is also the question of bias - even if dealers are biased on financial grounds, everyone has an agenda of sorts. There is no such thing as an unbiased opinion - your opinions are shaped by your background as are mine. You could be banned from posting about German history and I could be banned from posting about Australian history. Who would post on slavery - the descendants of the victims, who would have views shaped by their background, or the descendants of the slave owners? Who would discuss any history at all?

We all hold views that are inevitably shaped by who we are - financial agendas are only one and I believe the dealers must identify themselves so at least we are forewarned. I might not like Scots, so could post away happily and bad mouth Andy's product at will and could hide behind free speech. At least we know who the owners are. Of all the agendas to worry about, I suspect financial might be the least concerning.

As an activity - why did you start this thread? Why was I the first to answer? What will drive other people to respond? Who will agree with you? Who will not? There are agendas - and they do not have to be negative - everywhere.
Click to expand...

Reminds me of one of university classes about perceptions, ideology and the frameworks that shape our way of thinking. But, when you think about it, very true in all aspects of life not just here in this forum. And often it's easier to identify another's agenda than recognise or freely admit to one's own. But, I wonder is it because a dealer holds a different opinion to oneself that we have reservations about their suitability? If they did not post a contrary opinion to one's own would that affect our opinion re their suitability to participate? I wonder?

jules
 
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Here's a quick observation on polls and the nature of bias -

Who thinks that you should be able to argue with a dealer on one thread and then start a poll on whether we should ban dealers? Sounds like a touch of bias{sm4}

Jack
 
Voted "No", but I meant to vote yes. Not sure how to correct my vote. :eek:

Brian
 
Bayern said:
Jack, You will fight for your dealer right or wrong and I do not find your post un-biased. With such I will not dignify it with a response.



Honestly, Here is what I have. No...dealers should be not allowed to post. Now the owners of the forum being dealers, they seem to be able to stay neutral from issues either for or against. It is theirs to own; operate; and facilitate moderators...but if you notice they do not get involved in what each maker does that is good bad or indifferent...also it is theirs to do as they will. For the rest of us: I pose the position that other dealers are doing this and their un-biased opinions are not indicative of the normal forum vote or response. Ergo..they will defend their bottom line until the end.

I pose the question that should they be involved in normal forum poll's? I say no...I say they should refrain to a dealer thread.

What say you?

Ludwig
Click to expand...


Ludwig,

Thank you for drawing my attention to this thread and your post in the Danish thread. I note your PM to me was 11 minutes after you started this thread so I am guessing you are eager for a response. Clearly you do not have enough threads in which to use your 250 posts.

Minor point as confused. You posed the question above "I pose the question that should they be involved in normal forum poll's? I say no...". However in the Danish thread you asked me "How would you vote on the poll....oh you did not vote did you" which seems to suggest you thought I should vote in that one. Did you want me to vote Yes ?

Voting is clearly important to you as I noted you voted 9 times in another ongoing poll. I also did not vote in that one if it makes you feel better. Two others have voted 8 x so they probably covereed anything I might have voted on. Polls are a normal part of the fun of this forum but can not be replied upon too much for accurate feedback. The Danish poll for example is overwhelmingly negative in response but I am pretty confident the Danish dealer is going to do well with the series.

I note your comment "No...dealers should be not allowed to post". Strange that your thread is directed at K&C dealers and is in K&C area. Does that mean they can not talk about K&C but can talk about Figarti ? What about dealers who do not deal in K&C ? Can they talk about K&C ?

Incidentally whilst you PM'd me I am wondering if you also PM'd Warrior, Chester, Tony at K&C UK, Sierra, Mark at Build A Rama, staff a Kings X, Andy at K&C, Rick at Figarti, Matt at FL, Brian of CS, Toy Soldier Brigade, Ana Donzino, HSM, Ken Osen, Gideon, Emilio at Kronprinz, Igor at Nienna, Crown Miniatures, Artig Tin Soldiers etc. I guess not. I included producers as surely they are as financially likely to be biased as a dealer. So I think we can take it you mean me{sm2}. I will take it that just means you dont like my opinions (or was it because I did not vote in the Danish poll ?!).

I noted this comment also "their un-biased opinions are not indicative of the normal forum vote or response". This indicates to me that you believe your vote or response is the normal. Well in my unbiased opinion you may be shocked to know you are not always the "normal" one.

I seem to recall you previously saying that you did not do PM's but only communicated through the forum. In that case I only think it fair I share your PM with the forum as I will not be replyng to it.

PM I received from Bayern soon after he started this thread. Headed Keep it Interesting "A little argument is worth mega sales ....keep it clean and above the belt!!! Just keep talking about the product!!".

Again confused. Am I supposed to follow your PM and talk about the product and if so wouldn't that make me go against your first post where you said "they will obviously be biased to say nothing but good. I mean what good info is gained by this?". Obviously I can think of many good things to say about myself but I better not as I might be considered biased.

I did not vote in this Thread Poll because I might be considered biased. Even if I did vote I am pretty sure you would not count it. Now if I had posted some "Nice dios" or shown some "appreciation" in your many threads I guess I might not be such a bad dealer after all.

Now perhaps you could tell me how this "argument" is going to help sales (dealers please note I expect a commission if sales improve because of this exchange).
Regards
Brett

PS Brian / Deitz. Your mistaken "vote" is appreciated{sm4}
 
The Treefrog forum has a policy that dealers must identify themselves as such. That way people are aware that their responses may reflect that dealership. People then have the ability to make judgments for themselves.
 
I did not vote. Thought it was silly. But I now work for a dealer on a part time basis. I try to remain silent when it comes to problems and let them sort themselves out. Sometimes as a repairman/surgeon of toy soldiers I do bring up issues with solutions (I hope) to various problems that arise in the hobby. It is a balancing act for me.
 
Two things that I will add here, and I am not a dealer.

1) Many dealers are also collectors as are the manufacturers.....Most but not all and may enjoy interacting as we all do here !

2) Treefrog should be the only one needing to worry about this issue.Their decision to make !

Lets get back to the hobby and keep politics out of it !!!!
 
Ludwig,
What a very,very silly thread, what a waste of a post, and what a stupid poll.......:mad:
Wayne.
 
PanzerAce1944 said:
Two things that I will add here, and I am not a dealer.

1) Many dealers are also collectors as are the manufacturers.....Most but not all and may enjoy interacting as we all do here !

2) Treefrog should be the only one needing to worry about this issue.Their decision to make !

Lets get back to the hobby and keep politics out of it !!!!
Click to expand...

I totally agree with you.

In addition,the suggestion to ban someone because of their choice of employment is bordering on the ridiculous.
 
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