Stalingrad Defenders (1 Viewer)

sotnik

sotnik

Private 1st Class
Joined
Jan 10, 2010
Messages
216
Hey guys,
Just got two sets of "Russians" from ebay.
Before put them to my anti-partisan dio i decided to play a little:D
Here is some pics.
st2.jpg

st3.jpg

st4.jpg

st5.jpg

st6.jpg
 
Great pics mate the Russian figures are brilliant i really like the sniper he is 1 of my fav pieces.
 
Great photos - nice use of foreground and background material! Would be nice to see a new line of Russians to go with the eastern Tiger I:)

Mike
 
Nice photo's and the Panzer III looks really good in that setting. Nice work!!
Mitch.
 
Great work ,Sotnik,your background and foreground mixture looks really professional,small point ,the Panzer III in the 3 tone camo could not possibly be at Stalingrad with that camo,All over yellow camo scheme AFV's did make an appearance at Stalingrad but not the 3 tone camo scheme this does not distract in anyway, your excellent work,thanks for sharing and keep up the great work. Ken
 
forlornhoper said:
Great work ,Sotnik,your background and foreground mixture looks really professional,small point ,the Panzer III in the 3 tone camo could not possibly be at Stalingrad with that camo,All over yellow camo scheme AFV's did make an appearance at Stalingrad but not the 3 tone camo scheme this does not distract in anyway, your excellent work,thanks for sharing and keep up the great work. Ken
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Thank you!
Good point , unfortunately this is the only tank i have in my collection so far , I wish to see it in gray some day:rolleyes:
 
sotnik said:
Thank you!
Good point , unfortunately this is the only tank i have in my collection so far , I wish to see it in gray some day:rolleyes:
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One thing I'd like to point out is that nobody has really researched 1942 Russia panzer camo since Bruce Culver's original writings in Panzer Colors , a very long time ago. Bruce based his few statements on various photos he obtained from the Bundesarchiv, but since then, even more photos have come out of the eastern archives after the fall of the USSR. Tom Jentz has repeated Bruce's statements sometimes in his Osprey booklets, and Jean Restayn offered a possible palette of colors in one of his books, but nobody has done the necessary digging in army records. Just going by photos, 1942 looks like color anarchy. In Jason Marks last Stalingrad book, yet another mystery appeared with captured T34s in Kalach which seem to be freshly painted in a light German color...maybe two color pattern (don't have the book right now). Given the following data: a) a light base color was common b) at a minium two color patterns were seen c) Jean Restayn offered such a wide range of possible colors from the 4 DAKs, Grey, early brown, Luftwaffe olive green, and farm equipment yellow, I can accept at least in my own mind that some enterprising panzer crew that summer might have splashed a third color on their tank to make it look something like what would be more commonly seen in 1943.

This probably leads back to the more philosophical question that Germany really hadn't logistically planned for the Russian war to even exist in 1942. Remember, on June22 1941, they had 3 fully primed Army Groups on the offensive. By 1942, they had the tanks & fuel for only 1-AG North & Center got by with dangerously little. It seems to me that it was a very chaotic time.

Brings up another thought...even one of the panzer divisions in the southern active area was constantly starved for fuel as it was a newbie formation & the veteran panzer divisions had priority for fuel, which seriously impacted the operations & training of the division during Op. Blue. Germany paid a high price for that poor planning on 11/19/42 when the 22PD was all they had in the path of the northern thrust, and their engines were frozen over. In the south, one weak veteran mID (29th) was enough to derail the southern thrust, but was pointless with the northern arm swinging down on them
 
Blowtorch, dont confuse the issue ,K&C's PZ III was not at Stalingrad full stop, it is generally accepted the 3 tone camo scheme did not reach any theatre until March/April 1943, it is also generally accepted that any overall yellow motorised equipment being used in Russia was there in error and should have been with DAK forces in North Africa. Ken
 
forlornhoper said:
Blowtorch, dont confuse the issue ,K&C's PZ III was not at Stalingrad full stop, it is generally accepted the 3 tone camo scheme did not reach any theatre until March/April 1943, it is also generally accepted that any overall yellow motorised equipment being used in Russia was there in error and should have been with DAK forces in North Africa. Ken
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Nope. Too much is in yellow. 1942-GD, SS Viking, 24 PD, 60 mID PzBn, 23PD, France-SS LAH, DR, 6PD in Vichy occupation-and that's what we have pictures of. That's way too much for DAK. There are a lot of things generally accepted.
 
Blowtorch said:
Nope. Too much is in yellow. 1942-GD, SS Viking, 24 PD, 60 mID PzBn, 23PD, France-SS LAH, DR, 6PD in Vichy occupation-and that's what we have pictures of. That's way too much for DAK. There are a lot of things generally accepted.
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In my knowledge and i'm not a specialist, just judging by russian history books,painting,movies etc. most of the German Tank were shown painted in gray.
I need your advise. If i'll go further with east front dios wich K&C tank will be most accurate:confused: ?
Thank you
 
Blowtorch,you are flogging a dead horse ,there are many pictures of all over sand / yellow motorised equipment in Russia before March /April 1943,with no disruptive camo,if you believe otherwise then thats fine,the point has been made accurately enough ,the K&C PZIII as dipicted would not be fighting in the Battle of Stalingrad.Sotnik my advice would be to keep your PZIII in your dio and just place the dio sometime in summer 1943 in another city/town in Russia ,job done and let us anoraks debate the details.Your dio still looks great and a real compliment to your skills.Ken
 
Sotnik ,to keep it simple for you ,the general principle is this ,German tanks in the Russian theatre from June1941 to FEB/March 1943 would be painted in Panzer Grey,there was no doubt unit variations on the disruptine patterns,colours and materials used due to local conditions and surrounding environment eg winter white and local mud spread onto the tanks to blend etc.If memory serves the principle behind PanzerGrey was when tanks were fighting in towns/cities they would blend into the shadows of buildings for cover ,but it was soon found that tanks fighting in built up areas left them vunerable and in Russia most of the fighting by tanks were done in wide open areas /fields where Panzergrey was of no use as a camoflage.After Feb 1943 ,3 tone camo became the norm throughout all the theatres the Germans fought in,again the disruptive patterns,colours materials used varied,until the end of the war,variations did occur again near wars end due to paint shortages/ poor supply etc examples of king tigers fighting in their factory red primer are aclear indication of how desparate things were for the germans at the end.Hope this helps a little ,iam sure there is so much more info ,others may wish to add .Ken
 
Blowtorch ,just because we have different opinions does not mean you need to resort to childish insults,if you have further points of interest you wish to put forward thats fine if not ,we will have to agree to differ on some points but thats life on this forum,if you think K&C's PZIII as Depicted fought at Stalingrad or even Trafalgar then fine ,if you even think Pink Elephants fought at Kursk and Kharkov then great,your knowledge of ww2 is obviously far superior to mine and i respect that.This is a hobby not life and death,but if you do feel the need to trade insults ,please feel free to go back to the school playground and try to bully other school kids the same age as yourself. Ken
 
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